Drying mushrooms with desiccant, at least 30% potency loss

[Anonymous2]

TL;DR

I believe drying mushrooms with desiccant results in a significant loss of potency. It may also explain the debate over the potency loss due to heat.

I wish people wouldn’t post crap on the Internet.

Details:

I have been tripping about every second day in the last few months.

I dry the mushrooms on open-air and room temperature.

My trips are intense on doses considered low. 1.5-2g dried mushrooms give me beautiful open eyed-visuals (South American totems in the air, Hindu gods moving on the wall, snake inside the wall). With closed eyes, that dose gives me full-blown “movies.”

Before the desiccant, I’ve had never experienced inconsistencies in the strength of the mushrooms regardless of the size, harvest time, substrate, or age. What I dried two months earlier was similar to the freshly dried mushrooms — the only difference was that the Mazatapec was somewhat less potent than the B+ or the GT.

Lately, I take them in tea.

Two weeks ago, I bought a “scuba box” in which I put three jars of “naturally” dried B+ (MS), GT. They were from different tubs, and various flushes mixed. I put desiccant into the box, and I bought a coffee grinder.

I ground the three jars separately.

The trips were desperate. Yesterday, 2.5g GT gave me some colors with closed eyes. Before the desiccant, 2g of the same GT put me into a DMT-like hyperspace for two hours.

After having at least five trips, I see that all the desiccant-dried mushrooms got weaker. I’m almost sure it already happened before the grinding. I tested it at least once.

Besides, I used ground mushrooms earlier, without desiccant-drying, although, a more coarse grind. It worked well.

As I considered it that maybe it was me, or something unrelated happened to the mushrooms, one day after a weak trip, I took 2.2g naturally dried B+. I spent an hour watching an interdimensional war between my people and alien demons, and two hours in the bath tube asking again and again “wtf was this?” while watching the moving tentacles under the floor.

That’s why I believe it wasn’t either me or the source material but the desiccant-drying that ruined the potency.

Although I’m only 95% sure, that’s enough never to try it again. Sadly, I ruined about 200-400g dried mushrooms, and I wasted a lot of time and some money on the tools.

Most likely, some active ingredients get destroyed when the mushroom becomes too dry.

It may explain the debate over the potency loss due to drying mushrooms with heat. Maybe both sides are right, but they missed the reason. With heat, one can make the mushrooms drier than without heat, but how dry it gets, depends on the temperature, time, air exchange. That might be why people get different results when drying with heat. On the other hand, two weeks in a box with desiccant will remove a lot of water for sure.

That’s only a theory, but the result is real, and it’s sad.

The truth is that over 60 naturally dried mushroom trips, I’ve never thought about redosing. Not even once. It happened a few times I wished I took less.

At least four times, when I took the desiccant-dried mushrooms, I tried to save the trip by taking another 0.7-1g. (It didn’t help.)

I don’t know how I will store the mushrooms.

Most likely, I will dry them on air for weeks. I will not grind them but compress with my hand and put them into jars into the fridge. I will try the same with the freezer and compare the two.

The lesson is the same as always.

Don’t believe anything you hear or read.

 

[coAsTal]

Exposure to oxygen can break down alks somewhat where they are exposed to air, but there's no evidence that drying consistently reduces potency within the walls of fungus tissue by a large amount-- people have used dried shrooms for hundreds of years and they are what they are. Unless the temp you dry is unusually high, it shouldn't make a difference if it's open air or dessicant-assisted.

Also, (and more importantly) unless you cultivated an isolated clone that would give you the exact same mushroom for your entire grows, there is no way to assert that "the same mushrooms gave me a weaker trip".

They are not the same-- even on a small BRF cake, there are many different "siblings" in every grow--comprised of unique spore pairings. You can have dozens (or more) different "relatives" in any multi-spore grow. Every time you eat one or two, you are exposed to a different mushroom genetic. Some can be weaker than others-- some can be extremely strong. This is a known phenomenon that is impossible to get around without precision (and time-intensive) clone propagation.

Therefore, the statement that drying is the culprit for your perceived loss of potency is not likely valid on its own.

Additionally, full dosing every two days for months is extreme by most any measures, and tolerance is biologically proven with that small of a window between trips.

Try taking a break for a couple weeks and then take your dried mushrooms. Your expected strength will likely return after your brain is allowed to return to it's natural state. It would also be a very healthy decision for your brain--

 

[Anonymous2]

So far, no one who answered my post either here or on shroomery seemed to read it first. If you read it, it makes no sense what you wrote.

I don’t know it anymore why I am trying.

 

[coAsTal]

I read every line of your post.

Please explain what you think is being missed.

Perhaps you're not hearing what you expect to hear-- that doesn't mean you can just blame everyone else for not answering you "correctly".

 

[metta-morpheus]

Also, (and more importantly) unless you cultivated an isolated clone that would give you the exact same mushroom for your entire grows, there is no way to assert that "the same mushrooms gave me a weaker trip".

They are not the same-- even on a small BRF cake, there are many different "siblings" in every grow--comprised of unique spore pairings. You can have dozens (or more) different "relatives" in any multi-spore grow. Every time you eat one or two, you are exposed to a different mushroom genetic. Some can be weaker than others-- some can be extremely strong. This is a known phenomenon that is impossible to get around without precision (and time-intensive) clone propagation.

Therefore, the statement that drying is the culprit for your perceived loss of potency is not likely valid on its own.

I’m still new to the grow game, but I have to agree with this. I’ve read from several different sources that mushrooms from same grow and even same flush, or as coastal said, even the same cake, can vary in potency. And on the flip of that, I’ve never read anything about peoples suspicions on a loss of potency due to desiccants. Not to say, that just because I haven’t read it doesn't mean it’s not true. But for me, anecdotal evidence only works when the sample size is pretty large, and pretty unanimous.

 

[Anonymous2]

Exposure to oxygen can break down alks somewhat where they are exposed to air, but there's no evidence that drying consistently reduces potency within the walls of fungus tissue by a large amount-- people have used dried shrooms for hundreds of years and they are what they are.

When did I say drying itself is bad? What do you think I do to the mushrooms after I harvest them? Do I spray water on them to keep them wet forever?

If you don’t think I do my best to keep them wet, then how is the above relevant when I compare mushrooms dried on air to mushrooms dried on air then dried with desiccant?

Unless the temp you dry is unusually high, it shouldn't make a difference if it's open air or dessicant-assisted.

I’m not saying that I don’t know what people write on the internet. I know it, and I find it incorrect. That’s why I disclose what happened.

Have you done this experiment yourself? If yes, how did you compare the potency? What were your testing methods?

If not, what are you taking about?

Also, (and more importantly) unless you cultivated an isolated clone that would give you the exact same mushroom for your entire grows, there is no way to assert that "the same mushrooms gave me a weaker trip".

This would be the first valid argument if I didn’t write it down how often I take mushrooms, and how I never experienced significant difference in strength until I put them in a box with desiccant.

The sole reason I wrote down how often I take mushrooms was to give you an idea of how many flushes and strains I could compare under how many different conditions and emotional states.

In an ideal world, people disclosed the details of how they came to a conclusion instead of repeating what they heard or read from people who also read or heard it from someone else.

Every time you eat one or two, you are exposed to a different mushroom genetic.

Do you think that taking mushrooms about every other day for seven months didn’t teach me that?

Have you read that I already wrote it in the first post that I’ve never experienced such a significant difference in potency regardless of the strain, age, harvest time?

If you read it, why did you write the above?

Therefore, the statement that drying is the culprit for your perceived loss of potency is not likely valid on its own.

Do you realize I’m talking about drying with and without desiccant?

Try taking a break for a couple weeks and then take your dried mushrooms. Your expected strength will likely return after your brain is allowed to return to it's natural state. It would also be a very healthy decision for your brain--

I did not ask for ad advice on how often I should take mushrooms. I tried to share my experience about applying desiccant on already dried mushrooms because if one searches for "storing/preserving magic mushrooms", 4 of 5 articles recommend using desiccant.

Because they just repeat what they read without any testing.

I’ve been living for decades in a world where the vast majority of people cannot read. It is always me who receives unasked advice and lecturing from those people, and it is always me who must be "polite", because if I write down an adequate answer about whose brain you should be worry, I get moderated out.

So, why should I take less mushrooms? To see more of this? To spend more time with a society who considers thinking a bad thing? To realize it more often I can never in my life discuss topics I would like to discuss fro my heart because no one will give me any sane input?

Why the hell do I have to endure all the time that people try to give me fucking life advice when I try to share some factual data?

Why do I have to endure receiving unasked life advice from people who live such lives I would never ever want to live for a second?

Do you think I want to spend more time in a society like this, and less time in my mind?

 

[Anonymous2]

The sad part is that there are many people here with whom I would love to talk, and whom I like to read.

But I can’t, because every time I write down anything detailed of what I experienced, I receive life advice that reminds me of why I turn off my phone 24/7/365, and why checking out my emails is the worst (and usually the only bad) part of the day.

 

[endlessness]

People have given their thoughts in a polite helpful matter, they could have skipped your post but decided to try and help, and you answer with an attitude that's uncalled for., This combative attitude has no place in this community and will certainly not increase the chances of you getting help and feedback in your experiments, so I strongly suggest you reconsider your communication manner.

 

[Anonymous2]

People have given their thoughts in a polite helpful matter, they could have skipped your post but decided to try and help, and you answer with an attitude that's uncalled for., This combative attitude has no place in this community and will certainly not increase the chances of you getting help and feedback in your experiments, so I strongly suggest you reconsider your communication manner.

Can you point out where I asked for help in this thread?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

People have given their thoughts in a polite helpful matter, they could have skipped your post but decided to try and help, and you answer with an attitude that's uncalled for., This combative attitude has no place in this community and will certainly not increase the chances of you getting help and feedback in your experiments, so I strongly suggest you reconsider your communication manner.

Right here→Can you point out where I asked for help in this thread?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

PS One way desiccant may make shrooms seem qualitatively weaker is by reducing bioavailability of the active compounds. For example, fully dehydrated chitin may impede release of the actives from the mushroom material, leading to a suboptimal pharmacokinetic profile. Did you make notes regarding the duration of the experiences?

Another thing, has your diet remained similar throughout? Were there any seasonal variations in your food intake? If this is the case, metabolic factors could certainly have played a role.

Finally, regarding communication styles, if you were among my closest friends I would add

Spoiler

"you stupid cunt"

somewhere around this point

 

[dragonrider]

What substance did you use as dessicant?

The method i have often used to dry fresh mushrooms, is laying them on an old newspaper at room temperature. If a mushroom is very large, i cut it in smaller pieces.
After two days they are as dry as paper, and still very potent.

The paper absorbs some of the moist, so technically it is partly dessicant drying.

 

[Anonymous2]

Seriously, I was going to ask the moderator to delete my Nexus account, right after I asked the shroomery moderator to delete that thread, but I came here for a last read, and you two, downwardsfromzero and dragonrider saved the day.



I will do my best to answer.

 

[Anonymous2]

PS One way desiccant may make shrooms seem qualitatively weaker is by reducing bioavailability of the active compounds. For example, fully dehydrated chitin may impede release of the actives from the mushroom material, leading to a suboptimal
pharmacokinetic profile.

You might be on the right track. What I thought is similar. The cell membrane gets damaged, and the oxidation might kick in. I read something that supports this theory. It was that one should not put the fresh mushrooms into the freezer because the cells get damaged.

Did you make notes regarding the duration of the experiences?

I didn’t make notes as I didn’t expect it to be an experiment. I read about this method on so many pages it didn’t cross my mind it could be bad.

What I did:

I put two nylon bags into the jars above the desiccants. You also see them on the photo in white bags. I don’t have the packaging of them anymore. I checked it, and they did not disclose the ingredients. It tastes like some salt. Since I worried whether it could have been toxic, I put the mushrooms into open nylon bags inside the jars. These were two piles of B+ fruits from multiple harvests.

They were there for at least two weeks. It surprised me that the RH didn’t reach 0%. To make sure whether the desiccants were working, I removed the mushrooms for a while. The RH went below 0% quickly (at least, on the hygrometers). When I put back the mushrooms, it went up to 20% in a few hours.

Then I ordered a hermetically closed plastic box. I put the two desiccants in it with two jars of B+ and another jar of GT.

They were there for another week, probably.

Before I ground the mushrooms, the hygrometers still didn’t show 0%, but they were close.

Another thing, has your diet remained similar throughout? Were there any seasonal variations in your food intake? If this is the case, metabolic factors could certainly have played a role.

That’s a valid question. I considered it. Thanks to the COVID and being busy, I eat the same food almost every day. I know the reason wasn’t me.

In this thread, I disclosed my mushroom taking habits only to make it clear I can compare the potency. I know how I react to it. I know how intense a trip will be before it starts because, before the onset, I have the same physical symptoms as what I experience on DMT.

For some reason, the mushrooms work for me every second day. Redosing might not work well, although I tried it only with this weak mushrooms. There might be a slight decrease in the intensity of the trip if I wait only one day (not even sure). If I wait two days, it’s the same if I wait a week or a month.

I tested the desiccant-dried mushrooms five times. After the third time, I took 2.2g desiccant-free B+, and I had one of my hardest trips ever.

That’s how I know it wasn’t me.

The weakest trips were when I saw only some colors and colorful spots in the air in a dark room with open-eyes. It happened only on the desiccant-dried mushrooms. That was five occasions of about 60 (or more).

A medium trip (from what I’ve had) is when I see neon-color totems or funny and beautiful entities in the air and small moving bodies on the wall. That’s the level I enjoy the most. With closed eyes, it gives me movies.

And there is a level when I see full 3D realistic alien tentacles right below the floor in the bathroom. That’s the good part of that kind of trip, after the peak, when I already can walk. Before it, it’s not always that good.

When I took the 2.2 g B+ only one day after the desiccant-dried B+, I reached the third level.

So, it wasn’t me who changed, it wasn’t my diet, and it wasn’t the mushrooms in general.

When I take mushrooms dried two months ago, it’s the same as if I take it a week after I dried it. There is no reason to believe that what I put together with desiccant was already weaker.

I might test it one day properly, using the same harvest broken to small pieces. Until that, I’m only 95% sure. After a successful test, I’ll be 99% sure. I’m never sure about anything. Why would I be? I’m just trying to understand what’s going on.

Finally, regarding communication styles, if you were among my closest friends I would add

Spoiler

“you stupid cunt"

somewhere around this point

You know, I understand what you say. I get it. It’s just when people tell me that taking mushrooms often might have affected the way I think, I realize how dangerous it is to spend time on this ridiculous arguing.

If I listen to this again and again, then no one will be prepared when the alien demons finally find their way into this temporary reality. Is it what we want?

 

[Anonymous2]

The jars I used before the "scuba box".

The ground mushrooms. There is more in the freezer.

More ruined mushrooms. They were there for a few days only. I haven’t tested them yet.

Mushrooms being dried now.

 

[Anonymous2]

What substance did you use as dessicant?

The method i have often used to dry fresh mushrooms, is laying them on an old newspaper at room temperature. If a mushroom is very large, i cut it in smaller pieces.
After two days they are as dry as paper, and still very potent.

The paper absorbs some of the moist, so technically it is partly desiccant drying.

Almost the same as I do. I tried paper once or twice. I prefer alu foil.

After a while, I put them into closed metal boxes. I don’t store them in glass jars due to the light. Those three jars in the photo were in the scuba box until Wednesday. I need more storage boxes though.

The reason of the desiccant use was a google session for "preserving magic mushrooms". A few links from the first result page:

Microdosing: Preparing Psilocybin Mushrooms - Third Wave

Magic mushroom powder is one of the best ways to prepare psilocybin mushrooms for microdosing. Learn how to make your own with this complete guide!

thethirdwave.co

How To Store Magic Mushrooms & Truffles

Here we show you how to store fresh and dried magic mushrooms and truffles. Don't let heat, light, and moisture diminish the potency of your psychoactive fungi.

www.zamnesia.com

How To Dry Magic Mushrooms - Zamnesia

Harvested your own psilocybin mushrooms? Click here to learn how to perfectly dry shrooms to preserve their flavour/potency and increase their shelf life.

www.zamnesia.com

How to Store Magic Mushrooms

A Year's Worth of Tripping

vocal.media

Best Ways To Store Magic Mushrooms Or Magic Truffles - Zativo

Storage can make or break a magic mushroom harvest. Find out how to store your magic mushrooms safely with no loss of potency at Zativo.

www.zativo.com

Shroomery - Shroom capsules with the Cap-M-Quik

Making mushroom capsules with a commonly found commercial pill-making device. With pictures.

www.shroomery.org

They say desiccant-drying is the best. There are also many shroomery threads in which people recommended it.

I opened the thread to save others from the same mistake.

When one takes mushrooms, let’s say, once in a month, it would take them a year to do the same comparison I’ve done in one and a half weeks. There would be more variables to consider. Maybe they didn’t notice it. Maybe they didn’t leave them there for 2-3 weeks with hygrometers to make them as dry as possible.

Besides, as far as I read, most people take 4-7 grams for a trip. For them, it might be more difficult to notice it. When one takes only 1.5-2g for an intense trip, it’s a trivial difference.

 

[Anonymous2]

I think I bought this one:

Yesterday, I canceled the silica gel order.

 

[Northerner]

An electric dehydrator is by far the best way to dry mushrooms. Large amounts can be made to be crispy dry in 12 hours, no fuss and perfect dehydration. It's also good to have on hand for drying fruits and herbs, even making jerky if you are so inclined.
Years ago when I bought mine they were pretty pricey, but now there's plenty of cheap ones that work great available online.

 

[Anonymous2]

An electric dehydrator is by far the best way to dry mushrooms.

I will try it for sure.

Although, drying on air was fine. I wanted to do the best for long-term storage. I grow more mushrooms than I take but I don’t want to grow them all the time. I wanted to grow enough for at least a half year, and take a break.

I love spending time on them but sometimes I should work or something like that.

 

[Anonymous2]

It’s my first 60l monotub. It’s also the first monotub I made with intention. Earlier, I converted a few PF cakes to smaller monotubs.

It’s at least the 8th flush. I didn’t count them. Besides, they were overlapping. The dates say more.

The spores had sex on 6 April, they g2ged on 21 April and moved to their new apartment on 26 April.

She has been fruiting for almost two months.

The last photo isn’t the whole harvest. The large fruits weigh between eight and ten grams each.

I’ll dry and store this flush separately from the rest, and check the potency. Based on the harvest bruises’ color, I expect the best.

Two fruits have been cloned from the previous flush. Today, I cloned the one that’s 9.99 grams. Its label is “B+8 Late, 20.6.20” as it’s the 9th B+ MS fruit I cloned. Late means it’s from a late flush.

I always keep the original mushroom in the fridge, labeled, until it’s sure the agar clone is clean, healthy, and growing.

The system isn’t perfect, I know. For example, I’ll run into the Y2.1K problem soon since I use only two digits for the year.

There is indeed a place for improvement. I’m trying.