Dual solvents (plus other solvent questions)

[endlessness]

Hey

So SWIM has always been using naphtha, but wants to check out some hexane that is available in the chemistry shop.. SWIM wondered if mixing naphtha+hexane would be a good idea, maybe would extract more goodies.. What you guys think? Any recommendation on the ratio (SWIM was just thinking half half)?

another question.. do solvents always mix / dissolve in each other, mixing homogeneously? Like for example the naphtha and hexane, or xylene and hexane/naphta, or alcohol and any of these?


also.. if DMT is soluble in alcohol, why doesnt anybody ever extract with it? Is the yield bad or is it just not selective enough, or what?


and lastly.. why do all teks of jungle spice mention evaporation and not freeze precipitation? Doesnt freeze precipitation work with xylene?

(bit different questions but I thought this way no need to start more new threads)

thanks!

 

[polytrip]

I'm having the exact same questions. My speculation is that if you mix the solvents afteryou've done an extraction, you can bring down the amount of spice, the best solvent can hold. So you could do freeze precipitation with the mixture. But i haven't done this yet and i would like some expert opinions on this before i try it out, since MHRB isn't thatcheap.

 

[tspirit]

the dmt as found in the mhrb (a salt form, not a freebase) will dissolve in alcohol. probably just as well as in water, so there's no benefit and it's more expensive to buy.

my understanding as to why freeze precipitation doesn't work is that the solvents required to pull jungle spice out of the bark dissolve the actives so well, that you can't get the solvent cold enough to precipitate them - at temperatures possible in a household freezer, the solvent can still hang on to the substance readily. this may be due to the jungle actives comprising more tannins/fats/etc. and less alkaloids.

as for mixing solvents, i'm not sure what that would gain you. just a different ratio of actives i imagine, you'd probably pull out much more of everything with hexane, less with hexane+naphtha, and mostly nn-dmt with naphtha. most people find naphtha easiest because of the higher purity of the end product.

 

[acolon_5]

Hey

So SWIM has always been using naphtha, but wants to check out some hexane that is available in the chemistry shop.. SWIM wondered if mixing naphtha+hexane would be a good idea, maybe would extract more goodies.. What you guys think? Any recommendation on the ratio (SWIM was just thinking half half)?

another question.. do solvents always mix / dissolve in each other, mixing homogeneously? Like for example the naphtha and hexane, or xylene and hexane/naphta, or alcohol and any of these?


also.. if DMT is soluble in alcohol, why doesnt anybody ever extract with it? Is the yield bad or is it just not selective enough, or what?


and lastly.. why do all teks of jungle spice mention evaporation and not freeze precipitation? Doesnt freeze precipitation work with xylene?

(bit different questions but I thought this way no need to start more new threads)

thanks!

Naphtha in an of itself is a pretty big mix of solvents....so I'm sure adding more hexane wouldn't be a problem (many naphtha's already have hexane in them). I personally would save the hexane for recrystalization as it is more selective than naphtha and will result in purer crystals.

I know that most non-polar solvents will mix with each other, but I can't give you any firm recomendations.

You might try a toulene:naphtha mix at maybe 1:20. This way you can pull more out of the spice (due to the toulene) but still may be able to freeze precipitate it...maybe.

Ether and naphtha would make a good mix.

 

[polytrip]

This toluene naphta mix is exactly what i'm thinking of. I mentioned it somewhere earlier but i don't remember where. The only reason for me to try this would be the benefit of freeze precipitation, but this would be dependant on how well the two mingle i guess. Still, if it wouldn't work, then i would have to evaporate more of this toxic brew. I really don't want to breathe in those toluene fumes.

 

[endlessness]

the dmt as found in the mhrb (a salt form, not a freebase) will dissolve in alcohol. probably just as well as in water, so there's no benefit and it's more expensive to buy.

I didnt mean to use it instead of water.. I meant instead of the naphta / petrol derivatives, using alcohol (and therefore a less toxic product too). So I meant alcohol being a solvent for the freebase form, which I guess its possible since I heard of some people dissolve freebase dmt in alcohol, soaking some herbs and letting it evap, for easier transport/smoking..

so does alcohol dissolve both the freebase and the salt form?

my understanding as to why freeze precipitation doesn't work is that the solvents required to pull jungle spice out of the bark dissolve the actives so well, that you can't get the solvent cold enough to precipitate them - at temperatures possible in a household freezer, the solvent can still hang on to the substance readily. this may be due to the jungle actives comprising more tannins/fats/etc. and less alkaloids.

interesting, makes sense about it dissolving too much. As for the ´comprising more of tannins´, could partly be but then again, there MUST be some other alkaloid or smt, as ppl report 20mg of jungle spice being equivalent in strenght to 40 or 50mg of dmt. SWIM hasnt tried yet but will probably be doing it soon, as he found out his chemical supplier has xylene too..

Naphtha in an of itself is a pretty big mix of solvents....so I'm sure adding more hexane wouldn't be a problem (many naphtha's already have hexane in them). I personally would save the hexane for recrystalization as it is more selective than naphtha and will result in purer crystals.

I know that most non-polar solvents will mix with each other, but I can't give you any firm recomendations.

You might try a toulene:naphtha mix at maybe 1:20. This way you can pull more out of the spice (due to the toulene) but still may be able to freeze precipitate it...maybe.

Ether and naphtha would make a good mix.

hmmm thanks for the info !

yeah I guess risking mixing toulene/xylene with naphtha or hexane for freeze precip the normal dmt is not worth it, it might not precipitate and then one would have to evap all.. and SWIM really prefers going to freeze precipitation..

I guess what SWIM might do is make a mix of hexane/naphtha, but keeping some hexane for recrystallization.. and then after 5 pulls or smt of this mix, do a couple of xylene pulls, evap xylene, wash with hot naphta to just keep the jungle spice, and then redissolve it all in pure ethanol and evaporate again (following burnt´s tip this helps getting rid of remaining xylene).. SWIM will probably be trying this next week, only depending on the price of xylene, because if its too expensive SWIM will leave for some other time as SWIM is poor now

 

[Noman]

I didnt mean to use it instead of water.. I meant instead of the naphta / petrol derivatives, using alcohol (and therefore a less toxic product too). So I meant alcohol being a solvent for the freebase form, which I guess its possible since I heard of some people dissolve freebase dmt in alcohol, soaking some herbs and letting it evap, for easier transport/smoking..

DMT is soluble in alcohol, but since alcohol is miscible in water, there is no easy way to separate it from the basified solution.

My friend has done mixed naptha and heptane pulls and noticed no difference from a straight naptha pull.

 

[endlessness]

DMT is soluble in alcohol, but since alcohol is miscible in water, there is no easy way to separate it from the basified solution.

My friend has done mixed naptha and heptane pulls and noticed no difference from a straight naptha pull.

thanks a lot.. now that you mentioned the fact that alcohol is miscible in water, seems pretty obvious why

good to know about the mixed solvent pulls too..

 

[Spiceman]

On the ratio.. try 8 parts naptha (much better to use ether and hexane or heptane 8-1) and one part hex or heptane. Swim always used Diethyl ether 8 parts and 1 part heptane. Only used hexane by itself . I cannot stress what a miraculous solvent de & hep 8-1 makes. Literally its 1000 times better than anything naptha can do..

As far as Jungle spice goes... swim knows two ways (depending on what you are calling jungle spice) Red stuff ? Or rock tan stuff? Anyways ... you can get both isolated ...

Exhaust your soup (basified dmt solution ) with naptha until you can no longer get crystals from any of your pulls...

1. to get the red stuff... now just put your soup in a hot water bath and add a small amount of xylene... keep it warm and mix it occasionally ... but let the xylene stay in contact for a couple of hours.. pull it .. repeat .. combine .. evap ... you got the red stuff...

2. to get the tan rock (it takes a week or two for the stuff to rock but its swims personal fav) Pull with Di-ethyl ether the same as above ... alot of DMT will come out here even though the soup stopped yeilding with naptha !!!! thats another great thing about using DE!! Swim thinks alot of this is DMT oxide that the naptha refused to pull) anyways... do a couple of pulls with ether ... use only a tiny amount of solvent though... now freeze precipitate it .. pour off excess solvent and leave the goo in the jar... set the jar on the stove on the lowest setting and redissolve with naptha.. stir.. pull the naptha.. repeat this 6-7 times... the naptha here is pulling the extra spice that came out ... you should notice some orange goo in the bottom which doesnt dissolve with the naptha... you leave it there and like i said before.. wash it many times with naptha until you are confident thats its free from dmt .

Scrape this stuff up.. it will remain oily for several days.. after it hardens ... when you smoke it .. it may only carry a body buzz.. This stuff literally transmutes somehow over time and exposure to the air .. but after a few weeks ... when it turns hard as stone ... it carries an extremely intense and unique tryptamine buzz . Highly reccomended .

Sorry to blurb and rattle on there .. im a little buzzed but there you go . Hope you can make a little sense of that . Ummm you may want to pull the tan stuff first .. not sure if it comes out with xylene .. but I know the red stuff does not come out with the DE ! Peace !

 

[Spiceman]

Ok so on the subject of binary (dual) solvents here is a pic of some spice re-x from 8 parts heptane and 1 part acetone ... quickly brought to boil in a test tube and immediatly placed in freezer ... note the long hard glassy crystals.. very nice.. tho it was someone elses pic .. Swim cant take credit for the first one here ..

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Here is a pic of the brown tan wax which can be pulled in the above mentioned procedure.. like I said.. hard as a rock... after about 3 weeks ... I think it oxidizes and the oxide of this material is highly psychadelic .. while before it oxidizes .. it only carries a heavy body tranquilizing effect.

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Above I mentioned after exhausting the soup with naptha the ether / hep combo would pull more , and how we have to wash this with naptha to yeild the tan wax... this was re-x from those naptha washes.. note this amount was pulled from 1 pound of bark after the naptha stopped yeilding.. its . 90 gr!!!! See why I say use ether instead of naptha... the yeilds go WAY UP with a good solvent !

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You guys are awesome... I love it here ! Peace !

 

[acolon_5]

Here is a pic of the brown tan wax which can be pulled in the above mentioned procedure.. like I said.. hard as a rock... after about 3 weeks ... I think it oxidizes and the oxide of this material is highly psychadelic .. while before it oxidizes .. it only carries a heavy body tranquilizing effect.

This sounds like a report I read about kuglosiamine (sp way off). There's a lot of fun things in Mimosa!

What brand of starting fluid are you using?

 

[endlessness]

thanks a lot for the contributions spiceman..

as for the diethyl ether, unfortunately in SWIM´s country it is controlled.. xylene though, its possible.. also ethyl acetate is available, and according to 69ron this could be a very good solvent too, so might try that.. only problem now is the money hehe

 

[Spiceman]

Gunk brand - Thrust quick starting fluid.. is great ... it has a small amount of heptane in with the de already ? not sure the reatio there .. but its 100% clear and clean evapping .. no residues of any kind. Wow .. didn't know that stuff was controlled tho... thats shitty... and yeah that prolly is the report you read on kokusaginine.. now if thats what it is or not I do not know.. i wrote alot about this all over the web. Others have had success pulling it too with this method. Peace !

 

[endlessness]

Gunk brand - Thrust quick starting fluid.. is great ... it has a small amount of heptane in with the de already ? not sure the reatio there .. but its 100% clear and clean evapping .. no residues of any kind. Wow .. didn't know that stuff was controlled tho... thats shitty... and yeah that prolly is the report you read on kokusaginine.. now if thats what it is or not I do not know.. i wrote alot about this all over the web. Others have had success pulling it too with this method. Peace !

I think you and I are on different countries.. here in S. America there is no gunk brand

btw I think that this ´kukosaginine´ is pretty certain to have been a mistaken name, Jonathan Ott mentioned this.. but yeah there is something else there, though the names vary

 

[Nanaki]

SWIM can only find Pyroil brand starting fluid. It has upper cylinder lubricant in it though.

Could this still be used for a pull since it has the Heptane and DE. Then dissolved in Naphtha for a freeze precip? How much of this is needed to work with 100g of MHRB?