anyone with ph papers is invited to verify that blowing through a straw into water makes a <ph6 solution very easily. They are also invited to verify that blowing through a piece of NPS proof tube into some water in the same jar as some mesc containing limo and then removing and evapping the water will result in fluffy white powder clumps. Additionally, at their own risk, anyone who does such a thing is invited to verify the rainbows they will see about 2.5 hours after eating said powder. it takes a few more saltings than hcl to get all the goods out, but if you are concerned with "food safe" or just trying to find a clever way to get alks out of NPS its a fun thing to do. good luck and be safe!
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easy carbonate salting
- Thread starter ouro
- Start date
It should look something like this after scraping. There was more in there, then one day I had all these rainbow dreams and my jar was almost empty... I would recommend using a ph indicator and some test water to make sure you are getting the water below ph 6 and that it will stay that low for as long as you need to separate it from the NPS.
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Very nice, should work just fine, as has been shown.
"carbonic acid" "blowing bubbles" - Recherche Google
One of the great things about this is that one wouldn't have to shake carbonated water and the amount of carbonic acid one could introduce into a small amount of water is fairly unlimited, since it will continually react with freebase alkaloids as long as they reside in the solvent. The only question would be how long would it be necessary to blow for what amount of yield.
"carbonic acid" "blowing bubbles" - Recherche Google
One of the great things about this is that one wouldn't have to shake carbonated water and the amount of carbonic acid one could introduce into a small amount of water is fairly unlimited, since it will continually react with freebase alkaloids as long as they reside in the solvent. The only question would be how long would it be necessary to blow for what amount of yield.
The co2 in human exhale reacts with water like so:
co2 + h20 <-> h + hco3 <-> h + h + co3
as you add more co2 the balance shifts more towards the right creating a carbonic acid soln. After the co2 source is removed the balance will move back to the left on the order of minutes. so you better get your water out before it neutralizes and the jum jum migrates back to the NP. I think thats why I saw some mixed results anyways. I also suspect only so much co2 will dissolve in the water limiting the amount each salting will pull out. Probably the result is actually m bicarbonate.
co2 + h20 <-> h + hco3 <-> h + h + co3
as you add more co2 the balance shifts more towards the right creating a carbonic acid soln. After the co2 source is removed the balance will move back to the left on the order of minutes. so you better get your water out before it neutralizes and the jum jum migrates back to the NP. I think thats why I saw some mixed results anyways. I also suspect only so much co2 will dissolve in the water limiting the amount each salting will pull out. Probably the result is actually m bicarbonate.
Maybe my chemistry's a bit rusty, but once carbonic acid reacts to form a salt with mescaline, those mescaline ions would not dissociate and form a freebase without the aid of basic conditions or possibly heat. Otherwise simply adding water to salted mescaline could cause dissociation, which I'm not sure would be the case. I'm fairly certain sodium carbonate doesn't lose its carbonic acid component by decomposing into CO2 in solution, so I'm not sure why mescaline carbonate necessarily would.
hrm, you could be right, amor. I do know that soluble salts do dissociate, their dissociation (ionization) constant is a measure of this. It makes sense to me that some of the carbonic acid would reconvert to co2 after relieving the pressure from the left side of the equilibrium while the some percentage of the FB would migrate back to the NP. Your example of soda carb is a good point.. my thinking is that soda carb has a stronger bond and Na ions are probably insoluble in NP making this process less favorable. Its hard to compare alkaloids with light metal ions in this case, especially with my limited chem knowledge.
My chem is also quite old and certainly not complete... I should have put a stronger disclaimer on my speedy water removal advice. anyone around to put my wild speculation to rest? or someone could try salting 2 separate but equivalent batches and let one of them sit for an hour before separating the water from limo and see if there is a diff. also, a non bubbled ph7 water salting should be used as a control (I find ph7 water does salt a little something out). I was satisfied just to blow bubbles and see salts
EDIT PS: Phlux- cant wait to see how well this works for ya.
My chem is also quite old and certainly not complete... I should have put a stronger disclaimer on my speedy water removal advice. anyone around to put my wild speculation to rest? or someone could try salting 2 separate but equivalent batches and let one of them sit for an hour before separating the water from limo and see if there is a diff. also, a non bubbled ph7 water salting should be used as a control (I find ph7 water does salt a little something out). I was satisfied just to blow bubbles and see salts
EDIT PS: Phlux- cant wait to see how well this works for ya.
ouro said:
Yeah, my terminology wasn't quite accurate. Of course dissociation is what occurs in solvation, but I suppose decomposition would be closer to what I'm referring to. Offhand, I would say that because there is no reactant present in either solution to render a freebase substance from a salt, that because only the freebase alkaloids are present to neutralize the carbonic acid, the equilibrium would favor the persistence of mescaline carbonate (mescaline ions in solution with carbonic acid), disallowing decomposition into freebase. In short, certainly non-neutralized carbonic acid decompose into CO2 according to the equilibrium of such processes, but I doubt any of the neutralized carbonic acid would be subject to this.
The only situation I can think of where an alkaloid would migrate between a polar and nonpolar solvent according to some measure of equilibrium is if a salt of the alkaloid, rendered with a weak acid, were reacted with a weak base. The simultaneous concentration of base and acid would result in some concentration of freebase being available to a nonpolar solvent.
Thus I postulate that the presence of neutralizing mescaline ions in solution would tip the equilibrium, allowing a higher concentration of carbonic acid until no more mescaline is available to neutralize that carbonic acid. The only limiting factor I would imagine would be how much CO2 could dissolve alongside mescaline carbonate. Again, this is my amateur assessment. The chemistry behind the formation and decomposition of carbonic acid is unfamiliar and difficult to factor into more familiar concepts for me.
Kazoo...
ओं मणिपद्मे हूं
I had a thought... could one just plop a chunk of dry ice(frozen CO2) into a freebase saturated solvent, and after the solution is done reacting (CO2 melting and reverting to a gas bubbling its way out of the unsealed flask grabbing onto the freebase) and no dry ice remains, be left with a mescaline carbonate salt crashed out at the bottom of the flask of solvent?
just an idea....
just an idea....
This wouldn't work in theory and it doesn't work in practise either. For CO2 to react with the freebases and salt them out of the non-polar solvent CO2 first needs to be converted to carbonic acid. The latter happens via its reaction with water as shown above (CO2 +H20 <->H2CO3 <-> H+ + HCO3- - this species in bold reacts with mescaline).Kazoo... said: