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Easy NaOH alternative tek / Sodium carbonate tek

Migrated topic.
SyZyGyPSy said:
Ok so speaking of volcanoes... Swim just tried his first sodium carbonate attempt. He cooked his mhrb in vinegar in a crock pot overnite, then poured it into a gallog jug (still plenty of room left in the jug). The jug was kept warm in a hot water bath in a crock pot until swim was ready to basify. When he added the sodium carbonate, a hellacious foaming reaction occurred. Swim was suddenly reminded of those vinegar/baking soda volcanoes they used to make in science class when he was a kid. Apparently that happens with sodium carbonate too, eh?

So first off, swim wants to warn people to be aware of this reaction.

Second, anyone got any suggestions how to deal with this? Seriously there's a RIDICULOUS amount of foam and swim hasn't even finished adding sodium carbonate yet. How can he get rid of this stuff so as to continue on with his extraction? He already tried adding a little limonene (his np solvent) but that didn't seem to do anything to reduce the foam...

Any help = much appreciation!
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Thanks for bringing this thing up. It should have been mentioned on the original post ( it is edited now) because yes, sodium carbonate foams a lot when thrown into acidic solution.
 
any idea how long it takes to settle, or if it does settle at all or if foam continues for very long? SWIM was thinking of using sodium carbonate in harmala extraction. Given that he will have just redissolved the harmala salts in fresh water, there shouldnt be much acid to make the reaction with s. carbonate, so I guess it wont be such a problem, but still interesting to know
 
endlessness said:
any idea how long it takes to settle, or if it does settle at all or if foam continues for very long? SWIM was thinking of using sodium carbonate in harmala extraction. Given that he will have just redissolved the harmala salts in fresh water, there shouldnt be much acid to make the reaction with s. carbonate, so I guess it wont be such a problem, but still interesting to know
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Not really much, SWIM has never timed it. But it is the same as taking a, say, half full coca cola bottle and shaking it; carbon dioxide will be liberated and the coca cola will foam, then it is going to take some time to settle. Around one minute I would guess but it could be slightly longer. Definitely NOT more than 5 min.

Hope that helps!
 
endlessness said:
any idea how long it takes to settle, or if it does settle at all or if foam continues for very long? SWIM was thinking of using sodium carbonate in harmala extraction. Given that he will have just redissolved the harmala salts in fresh water, there shouldnt be much acid to make the reaction with s. carbonate, so I guess it wont be such a problem, but still interesting to know
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Swim has used sodium carbonate with a phosphoric acid harmala extraction, it did foam up but only for a few moments (swim first put the carbonate in water and then added it small bits a a time). Worked quite well although the result did need cleaning.
 
swim has been trying so hard to find lye, fuck it now, im using this...

ill be using citric acid, ill let everyone know how it goes...
 
I was under the impression a/b was better, ive seen info that says its just the same, but I dont like the idea of using a bucket of lye to extract.

Im not making ludafisk or soap, or processing corn...or making meth...so screw lye...
 
Those so called “STB” techs are still technically A/B techs because you have an aqueous layer with the lye and a non-polar layer with the naphtha.

What’s mostly different between the “STB” tech and a standard A/B tech is how it’s started. In a standard A/B tech you start by extracting the alkaloids from the plant matter in water by boiling the plant matter or letting it soak for several days in alcohol or something similar. In an “STB” tech you put the plant matter in a solution of strong base. The base is supposed to eat away at the plant matter helping to liberate the alkaloids and freebase them at the same time.

The strong basic solution serves the same purpose as boiling does in a standard tech. It helps break down the plant matter and liberate the alkaloids. It also unfortunately destroys many alkaloids. A pH of 12 or higher will destroy 5-HO-DMT (bufotenine), 4-HO-DMT, and many other similar alkaloids. Because of this, these high pH STB techs won’t work on Yopo or Vilca where the main alkaloid 5-HO-DMT is simply destroyed by the base.

You can perform an “STB” style tech using calcium hydroxide. That’s available in some grocery stores and on-line and isn’t a watched chemical like sodium hydroxide is in some areas. To do an “STB” on mimosa using calcium hydroxide, you powder the mimosa very finely. You thoroughly mix 2 parts mimosa with 1 part calcium hydroxide by weight. Then you add enough water to make a thick stew out of it. The pH will reach 12.4. You mix that for 5 minutes and let it sit overnight. Then you extract with heptane, or naphtha 3 times. Let your solvent evaporate a little and then freeze precipitate, or just let the solvents completely evaporate. The results are as good as the STB techs using sodium hydroxide if it’s done right. This also works for cactus to extract mescaline if the solvent is xylene (but then you also need to salt it out of the xylene).
 
Calcium Hydroxide is the proven standard for maintaining calcium concentration and alkalinity in closed marine aquaria.

Also known as hydrated lime.

(for anybody who gets frustrated with figuring out what some of this stuff is, like me)
 
69ron said:
You can perform an “STB” style tech using calcium hydroxide. That’s available in some grocery stores and on-line and isn’t a watched chemical like sodium hydroxide is in some areas. To do an “STB” on mimosa using calcium hydroxide, you powder the mimosa very finely. You thoroughly mix 2 parts mimosa with 1 part calcium hydroxide by weight. Then you add enough water to make a thick stew out of it. The pH will reach 12.4. You mix that for 5 minutes and let it sit overnight. Then you extract with heptane, or naphtha 3 times. Let your solvent evaporate a little and then freeze precipitate, or just let the solvents completely evaporate. The results are as good as the STB techs using sodium hydroxide if it’s done right. This also works for cactus to extract mescaline if the solvent is xylene (but then you also need to salt it out of the xylene).
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Im interested to see if anyone has used this ratio successfully doing a STB as described above using calcium hydroxide. Is the above mentioned 2 parts mimosa to 1 part calcium hydroxide a workable ratio?
 
SWIM thought the whole point of a pH of 13 for STB was to break down down the bark if not complete ground up. SWIM believes 13+ isnt required unless you want to completely break down organic matter. Having a higher pH DOES however lower the chance of thick emulsion. SWIM can investigate this soon. Not using Lye would lower the radar on spice production significantly. SWIM might also have to invest in a new pet. SWIM has always wanted a pet fish. Now where to put it...

edit - Fixed typo and stuff
 
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