Effects of very frequent mitragyna speciosa (kratom) usage

[Nydex]

Hello friends,

Due to the fact that I have an abundance of Green Maeng Da kratom powder, I have increased the frequency of my consumption a lot. Sometimes 5 days a week.

The doses I take are small - I only want the mildly sedative and relaxing effects, so I take doses of under 5 grams at most. This has been going on for at least a month now, and I haven't noticed any specific side effects so far, but I acknowledge that I am somewhat hooked to this beautiful plant, albeit in a non-addicted way (yet).

I would be very thankful if someone that has more knowledge on the matter helps me find out if such frequent usage will yield some negative effects on my body or mind as time goes on.

Thank you so much!

 

[Tony6Strings]

I took kratom for close to three years. It is an opioid like drug, acts as a mild opiate. It is addictive. Just like any other opiate acting drug. If taken daily for a length of time and stopping abruptly it is likely you will experience withdrawal. This is milder with kratom than with other stronger opiates but it is definitely a factor. That being said I feel kratom to be a very positive substance, good for getting off other opiates and maintaining. I haven't used any since I got on the methadone clinic years ago.

 

[Nydex]

Hi Tony,

Yes, I am quite familiar with what kratom is and I acknowledge that I might experience some withdrawal effects once I cease taking it. But the question that bothers me is if there are any dangerous health concerns linked to frequent use of this plant.

Peace & Love

 

[ozzoes]

I dont know wether i should post this, i have never touched kratom so it´s coming from a place a bit off topic but i will anyway. I hope you won´t consider it inapropiate. I deleted it once already before posting, but why on earth not follow the hearth..

But may i ask you why you want, or need, the midly relaxing and sedating effects 5 days a week?

Maybe i´m naïve, but feeling such a strong urge to escape your normal state of being kinda forgoes any other question of negative side effects related to the substance itself right?
it´s kinda like putting a piece of masking tape over the oil light as it comes on.. Feels good for a while but your ganna ruin your engine..

Something i´ve bin doing for 10 years straight, replacing about 5% of my daily inhallations with cannabis smoke. Now i´m getting out of that pool i see it´s much colder then i could´ve ever known when i was swmming in it, happily as i thaught i was. I´ll never go back to that again, any habbit for that matter besides eating sleeping and drinking, and even those i don´t want to control me.

I´m not comparing the two substance, i´m comparing how the substances are used.

Just my two cents, i hope it has some merrit in it, otherwise i´m sorry for contaminating your topic with my personal bullshit projected upon you:lol: .

 

[rOm]

no, beside possible psychological addiction and habit, I don't see any organs damage. so its not that bad. but still better to use once in a while than daily.

 

[Nydex]

I dont know wether i should post this, i have never touched kratom so it´s coming from a place a bit off topic but i will anyway. I hope you won´t consider it inapropiate. I deleted it once already before posting, but why on earth not follow the hearth..

But may i ask you why you want, or need, the midly relaxing and sedating effects 5 days a week?

Maybe i´m naïve, but feeling such a strong urge to escape your normal state of being kinda forgoes any other question of negative side effects related to the substance itself right?
it´s kinda like putting a piece of masking tape over the oil light as it comes on.. Feels good for a while but your ganna ruin your engine..

Something i´ve bin doing for 10 years straight, replacing about 5% of my daily inhallations with cannabis smoke. Now i´m getting out of that pool i see it´s much colder then i could´ve ever known when i was swmming in it, happily as i thaught i was. I´ll never go back to that again, any habbit for that matter besides eating sleeping and drinking, and even those i don´t want to control me.

I´m not comparing the two substance, i´m comparing how the substances are used.

Just my two cents, i hope it has some merrit in it, otherwise i´m sorry for contaminating your topic with my personal bullshit projected upon you:lol: .

No worries man, I appreciate your point of view and completely understand why you might have it.

I would understand completely if I took large, mind-numbing doses 5 days a week, but I don't. I take only small doses to make my evening a little better. Why, you might ask. Well, the reason is because I live in a stressful environment, full of self-hating people, work a job I hate 5 days a week trying to save up money so I can get the hell out of this loop. It just makes my evening a little bit better. And if there's no harm in doing so, and I can afford it - why not?

no, beside possible psychological addiction and habit, I don't see any organs damage. so its not that bad. but still better to use once in a while than daily.

Thanks for the input bro. I've noticed that in the last week whenever I take kratom in the evening I have a hard time falling asleep say 4 hours later. Yesterday evening I took 5 grams at around 8pm and went to bed around 4 and a half hours later, but couldn't fall asleep up to 8 in the morning. I hadn't had any coffee during the day. It feels like the kratom is keeping my mind awake after the sedative effects wear off. Have you noticed anything like this?

Peace & Love

 

[rOm]

oh yeh Nydex, at first if dosing in evening like you do I couldn't fall asleep easy... Then I started the habit of taking it morning and afternoon during my job mostly. caus elike you say, hard to go on demanding job...
SO yeh it helped me to carry on with my life...
So even if its an addciton, I think it isn't that terrible addiciton if it helps you out more than it harms you ( socially, physically, financially ... )
But yeh I think there are alternatives, but you'll need to start a proper herbal cabinet. and cycle the herbs.
but yeh like you, working life is often alot of stress, and the city life too, and I use those plants to help me not sink in depression..
I think I really have a tendancie to it ( and my father was on and off always depressed ), so that's something am watching out... maybe sometimes I do it wrong and get high to forget ( used cannabis which doesn't always help but can make depression and anxiety worst, unless its controlled doses in evening for me ) and destress ( mostly used arylcyclohexamines like ketamine, then also alcohol )...
SO yeh theorically poeple will tell you not to do something but being deep in depression isn't better at all for me.
Might look inot kambo, psilos, aya and pharma or anahausca, iboga microdoses for that.
Also if you can, sports, even justy long walk outside, cycling, if possible around rivers, trees or seaside, will help you a bunch. and most important too, you got to watch out your sleep and food ( I think food you're good already) cause they impact on stress a big deal.

 

[Nydex]

Yeah rOm I feel you man...life in the metropolis can be so exhausting, especially if you hate your job as I do... I won't sink in the opioid hole just to escape reality and not face my problems - that's not who I am. I can take that kratom and pour it down the drain right now if I had to. But if it doesn't harm me, and it makes my life a little bit easier - why do that? Why not take advantage of what the plant kingdom offers? Soon everything will change. But until that moment, the grind goes on as usual.

Be well.

 

[Spiralout]

Aside from being sure your plant material isn't contaminated ( and there isn't any practical way to be sure) the main concern I can think of, besides psychological/physical addiction, is the possible effects on your intestines if using regularly. I've been at a point where I was tossing back large amounts of powder everyday (50gram +/-) and it definitely didn't feel like it was good or natural .. I suspect large doses long term could be damaging to your intestines.

Aside from that , waking up and needing to gulp down 10 grams of dried lumpy astringent bitter powder in the morning before your awake enough to want to do anything , let alone that, to feel normal; that's not my idea of a good time .... There is of course utility depending on context (surely is a step in the right direction compared with IV heroin as an extreme example) but that doesn't mean that it's like drinking a cup of coffee ... There has been a good deal of anecdotal evidence that the concentrated forms of kratom have led to some very severe withdrawal, with some people making it out to be worse than any other opiates they had been on previously . This means the chemicals in this plant may not be as benign as many people think...

 

[Asher7]

I love kratom, it’s like the perfect little ADD fix.

Only thing I didn’t see mentioned was possible liver problems. Had someone mention it and I asked for a source which was provided. I don’t remember doses etc.

Along with extracts, I would avoid using MAOIs due to it possibly leading to withdrawls that would otherwise not be an issue. Extracts are good for when you’re quitting and you can still get enough in you to hold off wd, but have minimal powder go into your intestines because frequent use will pack your intestines up overtime.

 

[Spiralout]

Asher do you have any links or information regarding it's (possible?) effect on liver? I have heard people mention that here and there but I was under the impression it was no more than speculation...


Maoi is probably a good thing to avoid or atleast tread carefully with as we don't know all of the chemicals in kratom and there is some amount of adrenal effects going on with it... It's a good idea to tread cautiously when combining an maoi with anything though of course.

 

[Asher7]

Same thing I asked:lol: I didn’t save the link but I’ll search around for it.

 

[Tony6Strings]

Nydex regarding having trouble sleeping- Maeng Da is the most stimulating strain of kratom I have tried. Some really like this, some dont. Personally I preferred Bali, and I always found powder leaf more to my liking than extracts.

 

[Nydex]

Nydex regarding having trouble sleeping- Maeng Da is the most stimulating strain of kratom I have tried. Some really like this, some dont. Personally I preferred Bali, and I always found powder leaf more to my liking than extracts.

Yes back when I was searching for my first encounter with the plant I specifically looked for stimulating strains, as I wanted to use it while I'm at work and not nod off suspiciously.

Never tried any other strain though. Curious what the more sedative strains feel like exactly.

 

[Asher7]

@ Spiral, I’m not finding the specific paper. Randomly searching though individual cases and treatment etc are coming up. I’m sure if you scrolled theough enough URL’s you’ll find a trustworthy site. I’ll keep looking for the specific one I’m talking about. Gonna have to jump in the wayback machine for this one..8)

 

[Spiralout]

Yeah, I have people mention a possible correlation but as far as I know there is nothing conclusive and all we have to go on is anecdotes and speculation. Again, my gut feeling though (no pun intended) is using this stuff moderately to heavily for an extended period would not be good for your body; your intestines and guts in particular (aside from the obvious addictive effects).

What would be good to know is whether or not any of the chemicals are dangerous in and of themselves (again besides the addiction factor and the corresponding neuro-chemical changes) .

Huge intake of leaf material on a regular basis certainly can't be good regardless.

In regard to "maeng da" being strong or more stimulating , or "bali" being more potent... As far as I can tell, all these different "grades" are more or less arbitrary . Sure , there may be different grades, but without personally knowing the person growing it, without analyzing the levels of different compounds in one or another, and with the huge incentive to give different names or grades for marketing reasons; the grades are redundant and not something to go by. I think the different colors may give more an idea though (red is more sedating, white stimulating etc etc) but again I don't have any evidence other then anecdotes.

 

[dragonrider]

I believe i've read somewhere (can't remember the source) that excessive use can damage the liver.

But another thing....the psychological effects. Why would they be different here, than any other opiate? It is common knowledge that former addicts often have a very hard time, finding something like a purpose in life. The psychological pull remains for months, after having detoxed physically.

It's the dopaminergic effects of opiates and opioids. The brain has become so accustomed to that little dopamine rush, that it's almost as if they have become somewhat desensitized to normal feelings of joy and happyness.

Why would kratom not have the same effects? It very clearly gives you that little dopamine boost. That's one of it's main charms even, i would say.

 

[332211]

get the book "the easy way to stop smoking" and adapt it to cratom.

you will be free from it easily that way

 

[Camponotus]

and not to neglect : thyroid problems etc....

https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/comments/4941p5/thyroid_problems

I already have thyroid problems since day one...
So I use my Kratom maximum once a week and are really trying to minimize it to an irregular amount of usage!

Sure there were some times or days where I took it on Monday and maybe on Wednesday too, but than again paused for like 4-5 weeks!
It's nothing you want to have in your system constantly, mainly because it isn't that much medically assessed and IMHO Kratom isn't that bad but you have to be careful about the side effects of chronic opioid usage!:twisted:

 

[Asher7]

@ Spiral, again I can’t remember where I saw it :lol: but there is a thread or site, something floating around titled something like The Truth Behind Kratom Colors, or strains. Something like that, but the guy tracks down a lot of the distributors, middle men and growers, some main players it would seem, and did a real good write up on how the chain of command goes and how they organize strains, names, things like “horned” or “elephant ear” as well as the growing/drying process which can also affect color.

It was a real short read, maybe on reddit, real easy interesting read.