Ego death or being "unhuman"?

[MemeLord]

Recently I had another mushroom experience which was just 3.5 dried cubes and nothing else. I don't want to describe the whole trip but only the one part of it. It was my first time I took mushrooms outdoors, not at home. I was on the beach when mushrooms started to kick in at full power, sitting on the bench, watching at sea, listening to music and just dissolving. Strange feeling like I'm turning into a transparent ghost. On the other side of the road there is a tennis court. Old, empty at this time of the day and without an owner for pretty long time. I used to go there with my friend before we suddenly stoped being friends, so I got to hate this place.

First what I noticed is I don't care anymore. No feelings or attachements to this place or to my friend. And then I realised that there is nothing left of guy who lived in this body. I still had his body, his memories, partially the way he thinking. But I didn't share his feelings, attachments and his role anymore. I was looking down to artificial turf swirling into symmetric patterns. It was bright sunny day, you know generic "happy day", but image had this deep ocean blue colour filter like I'm somwhere under the water. And I thought "Is this real? So that's how we see the world when our fake personality doesn't hold us?". And this idea of fake personality started to rise. Like we all are just forced to be a person, play someone's role and believe in it. I saw how it was stupid and pointless. That new me was very strange like my disappeared personality was a small dot and what I become was way way more bigger. And yet I didn't know who am I anymore. The way I commented everything in my head was wierd. I was mocking everything, laughing at life, myself, didn't actually care or took something seriousrly. World look absolutely pointless yet very interesting to observe. If you ever played The Stanley Parable there is a Narrator who laughs at game conventions, and I turned pretty much into him.

So that something I turned into. Even though he really didn't have a role and a purpose, he wasn't shapeless. He didn't know who he was, like he hadn't any role in society, but it looks like he was constantly annoyed and tired forced to be someone, he also was slightly scared that there is no place for him in this world without personality. He liked to mock everything in very harsh manner, but overrall when I was him I was in the most calm, reasonable and logical state of my mind in my entire life. Not very empathetic though... Even though he was rude there was nothing that lately actually offended me. I actually was very excited because all conclusion I got weren't negative.

But the question is what is was? I can for sure say that all what I associated with myself disappeared, and everything that we think personality wasn't there. Though I can't say I didn't have personality at all. Probably the most accurate word is being just unhuman.

 

[brewster]

Hi, welcome! Of course, these kinds of experiences are highly personal and I'm very skeptical about say "It means X". Everyone will have to interpret them themselves to a certain degree.

But then, I'd say, what you experienced is a classic ecstatic experience. Simply put, it means "to stand outside one's mind". This means that you left your everyday consciousness, and got a different perspective. As unusual as it may feel, I'd say, it isn't per se unhuman, but rather "impersonal" - actually, this not so unusual during psychedelic experiences, but can also be induced via meditation, other drugs, physical exhaustion or other random factors.

The question is - how does one interpret this on a philosophical level? A mere hallucination? A glimpse at "The Truth"? Another perspective?
I tend towards the latter. Yes, it's right. Our identities are to a large degree arbitrary. It's entirely a question of interpretation whether this means that they are relevant or not. I think that this can be very disconcerting, but also profoundly healing to realize - it helps to not take it all so very seriously anymore.

This is known in Buddhism as no-self, and virtually all mystical traditions have their own terms for it. Even modern philosophy with constructivism has come to similar conclusions. But then, accepting it on a rational level is something entirely else than actually EXPERIENCING it.

I see it as a very precious glimpse at a "larger perspective" - a bird's eye view on life, so to speak. This doesn't render our everyday consciousness obsolete, but it demonstrates how small and limited that still is. Yet, there is infinite depth to be found in it all. So it's entirely up to us if we see this as glorious or horrifying. The experience itself is neutral, we can look at it in so many ways. It will keep transforming you if you let it happen and keep it in mind - it can be the gateway to so much growth.

 

[MemeLord]

I interpret it as every part of my brain which impersonalise me was shut down, yet perception and thinking stayed. Nothing was added only one piece was removed. Was it actually what people call "ego death", or it was only partially shut down? I also don't undesrstand was it just deeper layer of me, or what we call ego was gone but brain created something to replace it? Now I understand people who think they are Jesus/God/Devil/Universe while tripping because it's so unsual to be no one and fill this emptiness.

During the trip I questioned a lot do I actually need this personality. And I still doubt it. It clearly looked like fake, artificial and not much functional. We still can think without it, function, yet when we sucsess at something it screams "yes! That was ME! I did! I'm a good boi!". It's getting too big and disctracts us. I wouldn't experience that state, I'd never know how much energy and attention it takes to just stay in your role. I went back on foot and when I was at home I still was tripping (body feelings, visuals) quite strong, but it was 100% "me" again. Just because enviroment was very personal and it reminded me who I should be.

 

[brewster]

Well, I'm a bit critical about the notion of "ego death", to be honest. It seems to be over-used in the psychedelic community, to the degree that too many people always want to achieve this. So, I don't worry too much about it.
Ego death or not, you had a remarkable experience. I'd say, in order to lead a human life, people will need a personality, and that is not a bad thing. Its bad if people don't recognize that the personality is only a very limited part of reality. Because then, people become obsessed with it.

Keep your personality, like your personality! Just keep in mind that the truth is bigger than me or you. In everyday life, we need our roles to function, and that is ok. But it can be great to take vacations from it when we don't need to perform. It's in the balance.

I also am one of the people who experienced this, have been changed by it and questioned their life from then on. For me, a meditation practice is what helped me interact with my ego / personality in a more wholesome manner after I discovered how much more there is.

 

[FranLover]

Yeah man thats what tripping is all about! I had always felt this on 3g+ shrooms but had never worded it as well as you did. Thats what it is...the personality dies...i think it could be because it was fake anyway. Its fake because the brain is a camera that records everything...every flattery and every harsh word or threat, everything the eye percieves and nose smells, every movement the body makes, every psychological pain or pleassure is all recorded. So when the brain stops recording the personality dies because the personality, the I, is based on the recordings of the brain~~on memory, on culture.

You'll notice that toddlers around 2 or 3 years old have a personality, because they have things they like and ways they behave, but since they are not conscious (toddlers lack self awarness) its sort of like they have no personality and are fluid, maleable, new, fresh..that unawarness, which is actually full awareness to the present, is the brain that has yet not been conditioned to record everything.

I think...:d

 

[brewster]

Yes, FranLover, I agree. A lot of our "ego" is learned behaviour, and it can be very liberating to be able to 'unlearn' this for a while.
To me, Ego Death sounds a bit dramatic, because we come back into our personalities. I think Leary coined that term? I mean, he was all into the Book of the Dead and dramatic metaphors, so I see where this is coming from. Still, I'd be contempt with ego dissolution or something like that, because this implies that the ego will be re-assembled after returning from the trip. And if we want to continue having a life, that is not impractical at all that we get our personalities back .

Of course, a good ego-dissolving experience will leave a mark on us as we have tasted what all is beyond our everyday consciousness.

 

[MemeLord]

I don't like "ego death" term just because defenition of ego is kinda vague. And why "deat"? Do people hold on their personality so much - that when it off just for a few hours it's death already?
Actually a long time ago (before I was into psychoactive substances at all) I used to read Carlos Castaneda books. And only now I can relate to them like never before. I still find at lot of esoteric garbage, but a lot terms he used I can easily relate now. I knew his works are influenced by psychedelics, but never realised how deeply. He stopped writing about taking drugs after second book, but other books even more psychedelic.
Erasing your personal history, stopping the internal dialogue, controlled folly, personal importance and a lot more.

i think it could be because it was fake anyway. Its fake because the brain is a camera that records everything...every flattery and every harsh word or threat, everything the eye percieves and nose smells, every movement the body makes, every psychological pain or pleassure is all recorded. So when the brain stops recording the personality dies because the personality, the I, is based on the recordings of the brain~~on memory, on culture.

More like it's build of other's expectations about us. It's fake because it's external or/and based on false conviction. We were TOLD since childhood who we should be, and we believe this what we are. And we getting told who we should be all the time. And we also build it on our own, based on false conviction that something is truly important for you.
I wish everyone had this experience in his/her life at least once, just to get reminded that nothing is important and 100% true.

Yes, FranLover, I agree. A lot of our "ego" is learned behaviour, and it can be very liberating to be able to 'unlearn' this for a while.
To me, Ego Death sounds a bit dramatic, because we come back into our personalities.

I wonder if Ego is actually something we talking about or it's something bigger? I mean, can we even percept something, have thoughs and be conscious without ego? Also talks about death are too common in psychedelic community and probably more popular than discussing life.

 

[Hoobaleenyo]

I don't like "ego death" term just because defenition of ego is kinda vague. And why "deat"? Do people hold on their personality so much - that when it off just for a few hours it's death already?
Actually a long time ago (before I was into psychoactive substances at all) I used to read Carlos Castaneda books. And only now I can relate to them like never before. I still find at lot of esoteric garbage, but a lot terms he used I can easily relate now. I knew his works are influenced by psychedelics, but never realised how deeply. He stopped writing about taking drugs after second book, but other books even more psychedelic.
Erasing your personal history, stopping the internal dialogue, controlled folly, personal importance and a lot more.

i think it could be because it was fake anyway. Its fake because the brain is a camera that records everything...every flattery and every harsh word or threat, everything the eye percieves and nose smells, every movement the body makes, every psychological pain or pleassure is all recorded. So when the brain stops recording the personality dies because the personality, the I, is based on the recordings of the brain~~on memory, on culture.

More like it's build of other's expectations about us. It's fake because it's external or/and based on false conviction. We were TOLD since childhood who we should be, and we believe this what we are. And we getting told who we should be all the time. And we also build it on our own, based on false conviction that something is truly important for you.
I wish everyone had this experience in his/her life at least once, just to get reminded that nothing is important and 100% true.

Yes, FranLover, I agree. A lot of our "ego" is learned behaviour, and it can be very liberating to be able to 'unlearn' this for a while.
To me, Ego Death sounds a bit dramatic, because we come back into our personalities.

I wonder if Ego is actually something we talking about or it's something bigger? I mean, can we even percept something, have thoughs and be conscious without ego? Also talks about death are too common in psychedelic community and probably more popular than discussing life.

Ego is more real than you know brother. Our ego/shadow needs to be fed. You want to see if it's truly real? Get rid of everything you own that feeds him, all your favorite things, Music,stop eating meat and man made foods(if you eat it), your clothes(just earth clothes only), everything that "identifys" you. Basically everything you wanted or needed your whole life was all feeding our ego/shadow. Myself could say so much more but it will not be understood and taken differently. If you want to learn myself can heal, teach and guide you but the choice is up to you brother