Blundering_Novice
Rising Star
There well may be valid criticisms to be made of Terrence McKenna. But none of them are to be found in this thread.
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Elf Machinery..Really Terence
- Thread starter Shpongle
- Start date
I voted for shulgin but his wife should have been on there as well. They really are yin and yang.
Also I don't think I like anyone more than the other, they all helped the movement in one way or another(except Leary may have back-pedelled us, but lets not debate that). Anyone who had/has it in their heart to forward the understanding of these divine chemicals, is more than respectable in my book.
Also I don't think I like anyone more than the other, they all helped the movement in one way or another(except Leary may have back-pedelled us, but lets not debate that). Anyone who had/has it in their heart to forward the understanding of these divine chemicals, is more than respectable in my book.
Godspark
NiGHTS into Dreams
Who is to say that those dragons, elves, and wizards do NOT exist in some other dimensional reality? Sometimes, it is best we take some things at face value, and go from there.
He doesn't literally mean, a basketball: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVXvLLOaI7Q#t=3m05s
The man himself in his own words 3minutes 5seconds in: "You can not tell yourself what it is that you understand. In other words, what DMT does can't be downloaded into as low dimensional a language as English."
Our interpretations will forever be human and that's the best we've got. We do the best with what we know.
He doesn't literally mean, a basketball: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVXvLLOaI7Q#t=3m05s
The man himself in his own words 3minutes 5seconds in: "You can not tell yourself what it is that you understand. In other words, what DMT does can't be downloaded into as low dimensional a language as English."
Our interpretations will forever be human and that's the best we've got. We do the best with what we know.
lyserge
polyfather anomalous
Interesting polls; while Shulgin's work will probably have a greater long-term impact I haven't received much good information on the phenomenology of psychedelic experiences through his work.
On the other hand, McKenna has put a lot of useful speculations/metaphors/ideas out there, but no concrete scientific information as far as I know. They're sort of complimentary figures in that respect; I recall seeing a youtube video of a conversation between them and it actually wasn't particularly helpful or insightful.
I dislike how McKenna implied "this is what happens when you smoke DMT". In the entirety of his work it's clear he realizes he's offering ideas/speculations and asserts he doesn't neccessary believe what he says (at least to the degree he makes it sound). In this specific example, however, he implies differently, and unfortunately it's been taken as a sound bite by the larger community.
I recall someone on the Jungle Spice thread saying with a specific batch they got EXACTLY what he was talking about...so could it be that what he thought was yellowish DMT was actually a combo of DMT and DMT Oxide and some other unknown content of mimosa (or perhaps something the 60's chemists were actually synthesizing and mixing in)?
On the other hand, McKenna has put a lot of useful speculations/metaphors/ideas out there, but no concrete scientific information as far as I know. They're sort of complimentary figures in that respect; I recall seeing a youtube video of a conversation between them and it actually wasn't particularly helpful or insightful.
I dislike how McKenna implied "this is what happens when you smoke DMT". In the entirety of his work it's clear he realizes he's offering ideas/speculations and asserts he doesn't neccessary believe what he says (at least to the degree he makes it sound). In this specific example, however, he implies differently, and unfortunately it's been taken as a sound bite by the larger community.
I recall someone on the Jungle Spice thread saying with a specific batch they got EXACTLY what he was talking about...so could it be that what he thought was yellowish DMT was actually a combo of DMT and DMT Oxide and some other unknown content of mimosa (or perhaps something the 60's chemists were actually synthesizing and mixing in)?
Shpongle
Rising Star
No but if you want Albert Hoffman choose the CIA, thats who took the LSD from Sandoz.
So in fact any one who willingly had any collusion with the bad guys ...like that Russian that was mentioned, or spies or anyone like that can be placed in the category of Central Intelligence. they really screwed it up for all of us.
And I don't think there should be valid arguments made in satire about Terence Mckenna but no one has mentioned Dennis this entire time. And he's like the same person, just less talkative, but surely not less intelligent. I'm sure Picasso had a brother who couldn't paint.
also I would go so far as to agree that TMcK is the psychedelic speech giver, his metaphors are likened to the "i had a dream" speech by MLK, you know that's a metaphor that forces action, Terence McKenna definitely makes the listener interested in Psychedelic experiences, I know I have always admired his personable qualities as a humorist, but the things he says should in no way be taken too seriously, he spreads his beliefs like gospel..and it is half crazy..I mean take for example shpongle
and the degree of difficulty in his music let alone when to play it, will alter the way you see the world.
But I have nothing but good things to say about DMT, and there are a lot of people out there who mope around and claim that they don't do it because there were alligators eating them, or worse. I mean come on Haven't we learned that hallucinations are relative to the visual, and not the mental. The more you take the less you can see, but your brain will not think differently. You won't interpret things as changing in category, you'll just become afraid of what your senses feed your brain waves. when would we sense something might be an elf instead of a smell or sound.
I've been so far into a Dmt rush that that's basically all it is, a rush, and it feels great it makes things appear vibrant, and smooth and brand new, why don't we describe each psychedelic in the same way, every time someone tells me that " when I took mushrooms one time I saw dead bodies crawling towards me" I wanna lose my mind. Nothing personal but have some respect for other peoples intelligence, or your going to ruin a trip, rather stay inside for fear of being in a clear open field because someone said dead bodies will get you, the boogie man.
Go tell the ayahuascan people that when you take mushrooms you see dead people, like M. Night Shaymalan is your supplier.
So in fact any one who willingly had any collusion with the bad guys ...like that Russian that was mentioned, or spies or anyone like that can be placed in the category of Central Intelligence. they really screwed it up for all of us.
And I don't think there should be valid arguments made in satire about Terence Mckenna but no one has mentioned Dennis this entire time. And he's like the same person, just less talkative, but surely not less intelligent. I'm sure Picasso had a brother who couldn't paint.
also I would go so far as to agree that TMcK is the psychedelic speech giver, his metaphors are likened to the "i had a dream" speech by MLK, you know that's a metaphor that forces action, Terence McKenna definitely makes the listener interested in Psychedelic experiences, I know I have always admired his personable qualities as a humorist, but the things he says should in no way be taken too seriously, he spreads his beliefs like gospel..and it is half crazy..I mean take for example shpongle
and the degree of difficulty in his music let alone when to play it, will alter the way you see the world.
But I have nothing but good things to say about DMT, and there are a lot of people out there who mope around and claim that they don't do it because there were alligators eating them, or worse. I mean come on Haven't we learned that hallucinations are relative to the visual, and not the mental. The more you take the less you can see, but your brain will not think differently. You won't interpret things as changing in category, you'll just become afraid of what your senses feed your brain waves. when would we sense something might be an elf instead of a smell or sound.
I've been so far into a Dmt rush that that's basically all it is, a rush, and it feels great it makes things appear vibrant, and smooth and brand new, why don't we describe each psychedelic in the same way, every time someone tells me that " when I took mushrooms one time I saw dead bodies crawling towards me" I wanna lose my mind. Nothing personal but have some respect for other peoples intelligence, or your going to ruin a trip, rather stay inside for fear of being in a clear open field because someone said dead bodies will get you, the boogie man.
Go tell the ayahuascan people that when you take mushrooms you see dead people, like M. Night Shaymalan is your supplier.
Where's Joe Rogan and Pinchbek?
Nah, just kidding, i'm voting McKenna. Second place goes to Robert Anton Wilson.
Nah, just kidding, i'm voting McKenna. Second place goes to Robert Anton Wilson.
Ayawasqero
Rising Star
TKM. That´s without doubt. He´s the craziest of them all. A mighty lunatic. Peace.
Remapped
Juju Stone
Shpongle said:
First of all I take no issue with shpongle. simon posford is amazing. why compare him to Mckenna though?
listen man, I can tell you havent read Food of the Gods. You would not call his ideas half-crazy. As one of the most loquacious and foreward thinking icons of the movement. Have you read the archaic revival? If you think its half crazy, use what ever you need to justify it to yourself. if you want Scientific footnotes and studies, its there. But the man was an artist of words as well as a researcher of the bardo realms, as we all are, and if you cant understand some of his ideas, go buy all his books.
Everything is metaphor, nothing is can ever be obtained in its full essence. this is obvious. so why argue about what he meant? I'd like to think everyone knows about that crazy FUCKING PATTERN THAT COVERS EVERYTHING AND IS CRYSTALLINE GOO PIXEL MACHINES? Ok thatsa what he meant. say it your way??
3rd, that poll is a lil lacking sir. WHERE are daniel pinchbeck at the least, and joe rogan as someone else said and R A Wilson??
If you havent read 2012 by pinchbeck....its a huge psychedelic tome, amazing in its scope and vision.
IMO, Pinchbeck is a hack and a dilettante whose ideas are the same old stuff recycled, rehashed, regurgitated and aimed at a less "fringe" audience than the average psychonaut. 2012 read like some fanboy's journey to the Amazon. I didn't read the whole thing but from what I did read he comes across as a piss-poor anthropologist who shows little respect for the cultures he studies and acts incredibly arrogant and self-righteous.Remapped said:
mattritt
Rising Star
It was a tough choice between McKenna and Shulgin but in the end I wouldn't be here if it weren't for McKenna. So he wins for me far and wide. His speeches taught me soooo much. Shulgin was an easy second with all the AMAZING work he's done for psychedelics. 2C-b!! Oh my god, THANK YOU SHULGIN!!!
Not to mention MDMA, *drool* LOVE YOU SASHA!!
Not to mention MDMA, *drool* LOVE YOU SASHA!!
I've been re-listening to a bunch of terrence McKenna lectures and they sound better than ever.
He really was a brilliant nut. HIs stuff is so interesting and provocative even if you don't really believe what hes saying it leads you down path of thinking thats free form and boundless. Now that i;ve spent a good amount of time exploring the outer realms his stuff resonates more than ever now.
There are things I don't necessarily agree with yet his talks are so thought provoking . The beauty of his talks are in his use of language and his interpretations of the psychedelic experience. He opens your mind in an intelligent logical manner. He has helped me to think differently.
The whole reason i am here is because I heard an interview with him on Art bell talking about DMT. At the time i was into mushrooms. After I heard his talk on dmt I knew I had to try it. Here i am years later still at it. I'm not sure i know any more than when i started.
He really was a brilliant nut. HIs stuff is so interesting and provocative even if you don't really believe what hes saying it leads you down path of thinking thats free form and boundless. Now that i;ve spent a good amount of time exploring the outer realms his stuff resonates more than ever now.
There are things I don't necessarily agree with yet his talks are so thought provoking . The beauty of his talks are in his use of language and his interpretations of the psychedelic experience. He opens your mind in an intelligent logical manner. He has helped me to think differently.
The whole reason i am here is because I heard an interview with him on Art bell talking about DMT. At the time i was into mushrooms. After I heard his talk on dmt I knew I had to try it. Here i am years later still at it. I'm not sure i know any more than when i started.