Endogenous DMT using nutrients. Testable science. Should be studied.

[Sabnock1990]

Somebody should seriously do a study using proper B12, Folate and B6 + Tryptophan (with or without MAO-A inhibition), even on rats, to test endogenous Tryptamine (and NMT/DMT) levels. It would be nice if that were legitimately scientifically studied, because i know for a fact it works, so i think it would make an interesting study.

Without going too in depth on the mechanisms and how these specific nutrients (as well as a few others) can influence and enhance endogenous Tryptamine/NMT/DMT synthesis, basically B6 (P5P) is needed by AADC/DOPA Decarboxylase which decarboxylates Tryptophan into Tryptamine, active B6 (P5P) needs to be taken with/at the same time as the Tryptophan because it forces Tryptophan down the decarboxylation route (otherwise Tryptophan without P5P will go along it's usual metabolic route only turning into Tryptamine like 7 hours or so later), and active Folate (Folinic Acid, or Methylfolate, not Folic Acid) as well as active B12 (Methylcobalamin, or alternatively Hydroxocobalamin, not Cyanocobalamin) are needed by Methionine Synthase to recycle Homocysteine back into Methionine so that the Methionine can go to Methionine Adenosyltransferase to turn Methionine into SAM which is needed for INMT. Tryptophan obviously provides the Tryptamine for methylation by INMT to NMT/DMT. MAO-A inhibition is imo ideal and probably necessary for proper activity of Tryptamine, NMT and DMT. Folic Acid can be a detriment for a few reasons, and Cyanocobalamin as well.

So when scientists are studying endogenous DMT levels, whether in rats or Humans, they should do some studies on this approach as well, making sure to address any underlying Folate or B12 or B6 deficiencies (which B12 and Folate are interlinked with each other and the B12 portion can be especially hard to detect compared to Folate, especially using blood tests which don't reliably detect B12 or Folate deficiency particularly in the brain where it matters most), and should also remove Folic Acid and Cyanocobalamin from the equation entirely, preferably, and should supply enough Folate, B12 and B6, as well as Tryptophan, for accurate brain DMT measurements, otherwise, rats deficient in these things or underactive in methylation may not be able to synthesize NMT/DMT from Tryptamine effectively.

I have taken these things a good handful of times while MAO-A is inhibited by the Harmalas, and most definitely, endogenous Tryptamine, NMT, and DMT are all noticed, and it works. However, it's anybody's guess as to how much the body/brain could theoretically synthesize if given sufficient enough substrate/precursors/co-factors for endogenous Tryptamine/NMT/DMT synthesis, but ime it "can" be on par with at least a mildly moderate dose of at least oral NMT equivalent, that much is for sure so far. It's also worth keeping in mind that NMT is the direct precursor to DMT, so even if it's mainly NMT (methylated Tryptamine) that is synthesized, at least some portion of that can go back through INMT again to become DMT, question is, how much DMT could INMT synthesize before DMT in turn inhibits INMT from further activity?

Basically, you need SAM for INMT to work and the BHMT enzyme isn't active in the brain like Methionine Synthase is so Homocysteine can't be recycled back to Methionine and thus to SAM if you don't have enough B12 or Folate, you need MAO-A inhibition for Tryptamine, NMT and DMT to become more active in the system, and B6 (P5P) needs to be taken at the same time as the Tryptophan to force it's decarboxylation route. And you can't just consume Methionine even though it directly feeds SAM synthesis, because once SAM is synthesized it goes on to methylate things and can become quickly broken down to SAH and then to Homocysteine which then needs the B12 and Folate to recycle it back to Methionine for further SAM synthesis and by not making sure of Folate and B12 and thus accounting for full SAM levels, you can't properly determine how much INMT activity or NMT/DMT there is.

This is a testable method, you can personally feel the Tryptamine itself, then you can feel the Tryptamine being methylated by INMT to NMT, and then DMT effects start becoming a bit more apparent. I've literally had the same effects/reactions to this as i have to all my oral and smoked DMT effects, so it's definitely happening, and everything about this can be shown scientifically and tested/reproduced. Someone should seriously get on that lol. The sooner we can crack Endo-DMT, the better

 

[Sabnock1990]

Also keep in mind, when P5P, B12 and Tryptophan are taken at the same time during active gut MAO-A inhibition (i take my stuff usually an hour after the Harmalas), the Tryptophan decarboxylates to Tryptamine in the gut, which then allows for Tryptamine (and potentially NMT/DMT in the gut) to become orally active, whereas if you don't take B6 along with the Tryptophan, the Tryptophan goes along it's usual metabolic route to turn into 5-HTP and some other Tryptophan metabolites, and only becomes Tryptamine about 7 hours later which can be felt more cerebrally rather than full bodied like it is with oral activation, oral activation gives the full bodied feeling, cerebral activation gives a more head and shoulders type of feeling, a more heady feeling. Also too much Folate can reduce B12 too much ime, which can then reduce the chances of NMT/DMT formation, so you need enough Folate (imo 400mcgs of Folinic Acid or Methylfolate, which gives approx 680mcgs DFE's, but no more than that or you risk excess Folate using up too much B12), but not too much Folate. B12 ime so far seems a lot more important than the Folate factor, so Folate may not even need to be included in the mix, just so long as you're not Folate deficient.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Also, i'm pretty sure i've noticed that by taking P5P B6 with the Tryptophan, i notice more in the way of Tryptamine, and less in the way of 5-HTP and Serotonin, in fact i think by taking B6 with Tryptophan that it definitely seems to force Tryptophan into the decarboxylation pathway which may then not even contribute to 5-HTP/Serotonin, because there's been times i've taken B6 with Tryptophan with and without MAO-A inhibition and didn't notice any 5-HTP/Serotonin synthesis whereas when i've taken Tryptophan without B6 (with or without MAO-A inhibition) i end up noticing the 5-HTP and Serotonin but not the Tryptamine. So B6, B12 and Tryptophan, seem absolutely vital to endogenous Tryptamine/NMT/DMT synthesis, and Tryptamine may be a one way street, meaning it directly goes towards NMT/DMT synthesis, rather than 5-HTP/Serotonin synthesis, i'm pretty sure.

 

[Sabnock1990]

If anyone is curious about if this actually works, get the P5P, Folinic Acid or Methylfolate, and Methylcobalamin, get the Tryptophan, and take them like 30 minutes to an hour (usually an hour) into the Harmalas (or alternatively Moclobemide or some other MAOI). It'll work, if it doesn't, you're likely low in B12, at the least.

Focus on all metabolic roads that lead to SAM and that ensure Tryptophan's decarboxylation to Tryptamine and that ensure's Tryptamine's systemic oral activation and methylation to NMT and DMT, and you will find your way, it could take a few months or so to correct some amount of deficiency but you should be able to get this stuff working for you like it does for me.

 

[TransistorBass]

Can you give exact amounts and timings of your dosing so as to let others try it?

I'm no scientist but does the fact that the body has all the right ingredients to make Tryptamine mean the body will produce extra Tryptamine which it then randomly turns into DMT even though it doesn't need it or have a purpose for it?

 

[Sabnock1990]

Can you give exact amounts and timings of your dosing so as to let others try it?

I'm no scientist but does the fact that the body has all the right ingredients to make Tryptamine mean the body will produce extra Tryptamine which it then randomly turns into DMT even though it doesn't need it or have a purpose for it?

I'm not sure if the body would store Tryptamine or release it at random, at least with this method it seems pretty consistent and like it produces it on demand rather than just a random occurrence. The way i see it, if you give the body/brain what it needs in order to synthesize endogenous Tryptamines, then it shouldn't have much of an issue. The reason i posted this was because i've been seeing a recent article lately about endogenous DMT levels being finicky in rats again and my experience with this stuff so far definitely gets endogenous Tryptamines going, so i was like, well why not test out a nutrient-based mix and then they should test for endogenous DMT levels, whether rats or Humans.

As for dosages, i've explored higher dosages of pretty much all the B's so far, and so my dosage range can vary.

When i started out doing this in an attempt to see if i could experience Tryptamine or NMT or DMT, i was taking like 100 to 200mgs of P5P B6 a day but have lately gotten it down to 25mgs a day. Keep in mind that too much B6 can let more Folate into the Folate cycle via SHMT, and then that extra Folate can go towards Methionine Synthase and uses up too much B12, which can be counterproductive because the B12 is necessary.

I also used to go super heavy on the Methylcobalamin B12 (i was taking anywhere from 10 to 30mgs up to about 120mgs, but only because i've apparently been super duper deficient in B12 for most of my life), lately though i've been getting by with 10mgs a day and so i'd probably recommend like 500mcgs to 1mg to 5mgs first and see how that goes. Also when it comes to B12, i definitely recommend checking out the guide on the B12 Deficiency subreddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/B12_Deficiency/wiki/index/), the guide contains some useful information which is worth keeping in mind, especially when it comes to the importance of co-factors and such, you want to overall ensure that you're covering your nutritional needs first and foremost, and as things progress things will get more noticeable as time rolls on.

When i first started out with Folate i used 15mgs of Methylfolate, which is a pretty high dosage and is probably unnecessary excess especially for Methylfolate itself which can put some direct strain on B12, after awhile though i switched over to Folinic Acid which seems tolerable to me but i haven't tested it out with the Tryptamines but Methylfolate for sure definitely works, so i'd probably overall recommend 400 to 600mcgs (which equates to approx 680mcgs to 1020mcgs DFE's, which is the real number to go by when it comes to Folate, 400mcgs of the supplemental Folates are approx 1.7x more bioavailable compared to natural dietary Folates so DFE's are worth keeping an eye on so you don't take more Folate than needed), i also noticed that too much Methylfolate seemed like it reduced DMT's effects, likely because the Methylfolate is involved in Tetrahydrobiopterin (BH4) synthesis and recycling and gives the Tryptophan and Tyrosine Hydroxylase enzymes the co-factor it needs to synthesize 5-HTP and L-Dopa, and so too much Tetrahydrobiopterin can raise neurotransmitter levels pretty effectively and excess of those neurotransmitters can block out the DMT from binding to the receptors, similarly to SSRI's or what not.

I also noticed how important B12 is for SAM levels and thus methylation and endogenous Tryptamine synthesis, and whereas too much Folate seems to dampen the process, more B12 has for the most part been helpful and B12 seems like it's a very important nutrient, i can get some side-effects from too much Folate (like irritability, sometimes paranoia, some anxiety, etc) but more B12 makes Folate-related side-effects go away and starts recycling Folate back into the Folate cycle, the B12 as far as side-effects go has mainly only been some acne outbreaks and a good bit of bodily itching, also some slight dermatitis i think, so mainly just skin stuff but the mental aspects are nice.

For Tryptophan, i've taken anywhere from 250 to 350mgs, up to 1 gram, 1 gram may be too much though and for the most part i think up to 500mgs should do fine.

Just do keep in mind that recovering from deficiencies can be a long process (months or years) but it's worthwhile, and so people who may have certain nutrient deficiencies may not get the full effect and so that should be taken into consideration and people should just see the process through and test/study/experiment, trial and error, give things a serious try a good handful of times at the least before they write this method off, because i can assure you it does definitely work, it directly stimulates the decarboxylation of Tryptophan to Tryptamine and gives the body/brain the SAM needed for INMT activity and resulting endogenous Tryptamine synthesis, it should ideally be done properly MAOI'd up to ensure full activation and synthesis of the Tryptamines, and especially for oral activation of Tryptamine compared to the more cerebral effect one gets hours later, i recommend taking the Harmalas (or Moclobemide) at an effective dosage and giving it 1 hour to fully inhibit gut MAO-A and then take the Tryptophan plus B6 and B12 (Folate can be included but i think the B12 is likely more important than the Folate and Folate might be able to just be taken earlier on in the day or sometime afterwards).

I guess it should also be noted that i do smoke Tobacco/vape Nicotine and enjoy some Cannabinoids most usually, and while i don't think those really contribute to what i'm talking about, it may be possible for there to be a sort of synergy which may contribute, but i don't think that's the case, just throwing that out there for anyone who may also partake. I also usually don't eat but like once a day (at night) and so i have a fully empty stomach/gut until about 8 to 10 hours after first taking the Harmalas, and if someone eats right beforehand it could throw off the proper absorption of things and so empty stomach imo is best, that way things can kick in as they're supposed to.

Just make sure to properly/fully inhibit gut MAO-A, take the Tryptophan+B6/B12 (with or without Folate) an hour into the Harmalas, and sometime after you should definitely notice it. Ime it's absolutely necessary to take the B6/B12 together with the Tryptophan, doing so will make Tryptamine orally active and full bodied and you'll definitely notice the endogenous Tryptamine syntheses.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Also, since B12 seems to be so important for this, ime, it's also worth keeping in mind that B12 can also be used nasally, or sublingually/buccally, or imo even rectally, as well as orally, and so if one finds themselves to be low in B12 or not noticing much in the way of endogenous Tryptamines, perhaps try the Methylcobalamin B12 nasally or sublingually/buccally, and that'll help it get more into the blood and brain but ime oral Methylcobalamin is good enough and gets the job done, but while i haven't tried the nasal B12 for this purpose, i can see it working out nicely. You can make your own B12 nose spray by emptying out some Methylcobalamin capsules and soaking/mixing the B12 powder in with some water, shake it up a good bit to make sure it gets absorbed into the water and let it settle, then filter off the liquid and dispose of the powder remnants and load the liquid up in a pump mist nose spray bottle and it definitely works, slightly crudely but definitely effective especially if you get it concentrated/potent enough, or alternatively one can dilute the liquid with some more water and use it sublingually/buccally, which should absorb fine imo.

And technically, this should be able to be done with all B vitamins, since they're water soluble, and i think it's kinda cool to have a B vitamin nose spray lol, it can be a good way to get the actives into the brain.

 

[TransistorBass]

Probably not for me if I'm honest, I need my food, and I'm never going to starve myself for anything but a hospital procedure! And although i could have an empty stomach first thing in the morning I'll be starving after my first cup of tea!

 

[Sabnock1990]

Probably not for me if I'm honest, I need my food, and I'm never going to starve myself for anything but a hospital procedure! And although i could have an empty stomach first thing in the morning I'll be starving after my first cup of tea!

I don't imagine you'd have to starve yourself though lol, imo if you take Aya and it works for you (whether you've eaten or not) then you should be able to apply the same to this little experiment if you should wish to try it. I think that other than making sure things kick in properly, the only other reason to have a little space between food and this stuff is so that Tryptophan can be absorbed without having to compete with other amino acids for absorption, i think really only maybe a couple hours or so of a fresh stomach should be fine. Maybe try eating a few hours beforehand, or a few hours afterward? So long as you have an hour or two to let things get absorbed as they should, i don't imagine you should have an issue. Plus, since you eat you may not even need to correct any deficiencies, maybe, so it may work for you without much effort, idk.

Either way, it's a cool little experiment and i think it's a worthy experiment, if we can crack Endo-DMT then there'd be no stopping it, and you can't arrest people for making their own DMT lol.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Also, on second thought, maybe the body can store Tryptamine or NMT/DMT, because the last few days i've gotten back to taking my Tryptophan again for the Serotonin, and i've taken it like 6 to 8 hours after taking the Harmalas so that i don't get the Tryptamine but instead get my Serotonin, and i swear it's giving me a very slight Tryptaminergic feeling lately cerebrally, so i think the body might be able to store some.

Also worth mentioning imo is that i get a particular feeling from DMT which also shows up on mushrooms (especially Psilohuasca), and a few times when taking Tryptophan+B12+B6 an hour into the Harmalas, it gave me that same particular feeling that i get from mushrooms/Psilohuasca and DMT.