"entheogenic diplomacy" or "interdimensional etiquette"

[weirdoigo]

(feel free to skip the random assortment of questions, ideas, and AI input below, and dive in with your experiences on the topic)


"Contact Etiquette as Cross-Realm Diplomacy" is how GPT phrased it.

GPT said
"Ayahuasca ceremonies often involve strict dieta, taboos, and preparatory humility—not just for physical safety, but to make contact without offense."

"In Siberian and Mongolian shamanism, failure to respect spirit protocol can result in madness or illness, seen as a social-moral breach, not just personal pathology."

...reverence, respect, contact protocols, social mores, etiquette, whatever you want to call it, I'm curious what beliefs or knowledge you have about our presence in their world and our contact with them.

in our own world, peoples and animals differ radically...
some consider eye contact intimidating or threatening
some consider lack of eye contact rude
some consider bowing respectful, or shaking hands.
some have special greetings ('namaste', 'Satt Sri Akal', etc.)
some believe silence is respectful.

I really have no idea what's expected of us in the realms.

but I know many travelers talk about 'guiding spirits' and other interactions that involved coherent linguistic communication, so perhaps they know a few things that could be helpful for those of us who haven't had that.

do they know where we're from? is it obvious to them?
do they know how often we've visited?
do they know how long we're able to stay?
do they expect us to have a certain understanding of where we're visiting or how to get around? (you go to another country and you're expected to know when to take your shoes off, or how to address this or that person...)

have you found certain postures or gestures helpful or harmful? (I hear about people lying down, perhaps because they fear they'll pass out, but generally I prefer seated meditation, an attentive and receptive posture)

do they seem to read your mind if you're silent, or listen to your words if you speak?
should you wait for them to speak and not speak otherwise?
or will they only speak if you speak first?

GPT had a couple good suggestions in terms of mindset:

Stillness before intention — Enter as a guest, not a conqueror. Don't demand the experience. Be like a monk entering a sacred grove.

Acknowledge agency — Even if you're uncertain what you're encountering, act as if it has autonomy, intelligence, and volition.

Offer, don't impose — Think of gestures, symbols, music, or shared focus as gifts or invitations, not tools of manipulation or control.

Be aware of your filters — You bring your own conditioning, fears, desires. Don't mistake your own psyche for the entirety of the Other.

I tend to always shower first, just like Muslims have their washing ritual before prayer.

And personally I prefer the setting to be silence and darkness usually, to get a deeper emersion in their world with no interference from this one, it seems more respectful, though I've tried with music once, and had an entirely OEV trip that could have easily been a powerful CEV trip unrelated to this world, but which seemed to integrate and play with my surroundings since I kept my mind here. it seems like they can readily vibe with where ever you're at seamlessly, which is a neat display of their power, but personally I'm more interested right now in what I can learn of them and their world than of how the two can merge.

 

[CokFLHX]

Okay. This is really interesting to me. It seems as though you’ve reached a level I can’t seem to myself.

You’ve got to breakthrough, right? I can’t seem to make it happen.

Maybe I’ve been looking at it the wrong way. Maybe it’s not a matter of dosage or being able to keep taking a hit, as much as it’s about intention.

To be honest, the whole reason I started with this, extractions and everything, was because I had seen it read accounts of people who claim if you can get enough of it in you, fast enough, the reality in pieces experience that I’ve experienced goes away, and you’re transported into a different reality. You find yourself there, "with all your groceries" as Terrance McKenna puts it. The way I read into that is that your clear headed and can think, which is a far cry from what I’ve been able to experience. But you’re there, clear headed, and will encounter entities.
What normal person can hear this and not HAVE to see what that’s about, right?

That has been my intention. Is it possible that I won’t experience this until I change my intention? I’m not disrespectful in any way, but doing it "just to see" is probably much different than doing it with the desire to gain understanding about yourself and the universe.
I don’t know.

Since I’m already going long, please allow me to share my first experience.

I met up with three people who were also excited about trying it.
I went first. I remember it was as if reality shattered into pieces, but that’s about it. There was nothing special, sacred, or spiritual about it. Just one hell of a buzz. Intense….

When started to come out of it and opened my eyes, my three friends were jabbering at me like mad. I know know they were just excited and were asking, "how was it?", but they could have been speaking Mandarin for all I could understand. It was too much and I stood, rocky and with poor balance and made my way outside. I had to get some air, ya know? I sat down on the porch steps and my friends dog, a HUGE husky came running at me, barking wildly because he wasn’t sure who I was and he does that shit. I like to come out of my skin! I had recovered a little, but was still very much under the influence. We are talking maybe three minutes after I was first able to open my eyes.

Freaked
Me
Out

I guess that makes it understandable that I didn’t really want to do it again after that.

I’ve since mostly put that first experience behind me, but I really think that it has made it hard for me to enjoy it.

When my friends tried it, I was adamant that this wasn’t a party drug and we needed to provide a quiet, calm space for them both during and as they come out of it. Wait for them to speak first before trying to communicate with them, ya know? My friends all love it.

So yeah. That experience has made it tough for me to go for the breakthrough. I’ve tried a handful of times since and I’ve had some very pleasant experiences, but it seems to me it’s all the same. It fucks got up. It’s an extremely intense psychedelic experience that is unlike any other psychedelic I’ve done. But there is no spiritual element to it.

I’ve been told I haven’t broken through. That there is a threshold amount you’ve got to get into your bloodstream in order to get there, and I’m simply not reaching it. I don’t think I’ve ever reached a point where I physically couldn’t take another hit. Hard to say for sure but I think I’ve put it down of my own accord each time.

So is that the solution? Do you just gotta hit that sonofabitch until you can’t raise it to your lips anymore and BOOM?

Sorry if this is me hijacking your thread. That’s not my intention. I read your post and felt like you or others who read it would be able to provide some insight and guidance.

 

[weirdoigo]

You’ve got to breakthrough, right? I can’t seem to make it happen.

I think so, but I could be wrong.
I haven't had one of those trips that feels longer than it really was.
I haven't met 'the source' or Jesus or Ganesh or felt at one with all being.
I've just gone beyond the warping of this world and the vague apparition of another one, into that crystal clear sense of hyperreality where they can absolutely interact with you however they want, like swimming with dolphins vs merely visiting an aquarium.

Maybe I’ve been looking at it the wrong way. Maybe it’s not a matter of dosage or being able to keep taking a hit, as much as it’s about intention.

For me it seems like intention has no relation to any of the experience.
dose probably does. but I wonder if experience also does.
my initial attempts with the spice gave me results similar to a high dose of mushrooms, except sped up and chaotic. I had heard of people seeing and drawing entities, but for me it all happened so fast there was no hope of that with DMT. with mushrooms it was the same filmy glimpse into some 3d structured geometry (previously all my experience had been weed/mdma/lsd where it's all merely 2d sacred geometry in OEV, no navigable CEV). the first time I saw an entity, everything morphed and turned so fast I could hardly see anything, it was like a Dalek shaped Rubiks cube with TV screens all over it, gone within seconds as I twisted away into another room. A few tries later I remember seeing things floating around and waving at me on the other side of the filmy wall. And beyond that nothing was too memorable.
I kept doing mushrooms for a year or two since then before finally getting more, and now I'm suddenly able to have like insta-teleport breakthroughs sometimes (I still just eyeball the dose and sometimes my receptors might be downregulated and things don't work out). I get no tunnels or fractals or all those cliches, it just goes from blackness either into the geometric 'space' holographic worlds where little guys often pop up holding something and as I float toward them and look at them it seems to then zap me into some world of its choosing, or I skip right through any of that straight into one of the realms that looks like a Sims type VR. one time it happened faster than I could even close my eyes, half my room was instantly transformed, and I closed my eyes to complete the transition. but what its theme is never has anything to do with my thoughts or desires.
The closest I've found of any correlation to intention is posture and performance, prior thoughts and hopes themselves have no relation to outcomes. I can have it respond in these soothing calm soft and caring aesthetics if I'm laying around half naked, or have it produce a dance party if I'm dressed up with music on, or have it offer some kind of presentation or challenge to focus on and figure out if I'm very studious and meditative and focused. but generally it seems quite random, and like people say, there's this 'shut up and go along for the ride' sense about it.

I had seen it read accounts of people who claim if you can get enough of it in you, fast enough, the reality in pieces experience that I’ve experienced goes away, and you’re transported into a different reality. You find yourself there, "with all your groceries" as Terrance McKenna puts it. The way I read into that is that your clear headed and can think, which is a far cry from what I’ve been able to experience. But you’re there, clear headed, and will encounter entities.

What normal person can hear this and not HAVE to see what that’s about, right?

100%.
when one friend tried it with no luck, she got the giggles a bit, like a lot of people do with mushrooms (I never do. autistic...who knows), but that was it (I had assured her she'd be fine to drive home afterwards, that it doesn't affect people like LSD etc.). Me, I feel entirely normal. I would happily walk across a balance beam or drive my car around an obstacle course as soon as it wears off (frankly I'm keen to see what things my performance is improved on by the enhanced perception!), it does nothing to impair the normal sense of self, it just enhances what that self can see. (this is one reason I've tried it with ketamine and after mushrooms, because being able to quiet my mind and focus better seems like one of the most important skills to have for exploring that world, and being my totally lucid alert normal overanxious endless internal monolog distracted self seems like a real disservice.)

The first or second time I tried it with Rue to extend my stay, the dose was so powerful that when I opened my eyes I couldn't see my hands or my room, I could feel sensations and move an object I wanted to move, and hear it, but that was it.
usually it just has just this bafflingly impressive ability to transition. I mean, you see this totally unrelated world in your head, and as you slowly open your eyes parts of it are still visible and relate to alterations in how it has enhanced the appearance of this world. from a technological and artistic standpoint it just blows my mind, even more so than the morphing realms (walls being some kind of membrane that can just flop and bend and shift color and shape beautifully and naturally. The lower realm hologram type stuff is the sort of thing CGI can imitate in sci-fi films, but this stuff is beyond what I can even remember well enough to think how someone would reproduce it.

That has been my intention. Is it possible that I won’t experience this until I change my intention? I’m not disrespectful in any way, but doing it "just to see" is probably much different than doing it with the desire to gain understanding about yourself and the universe.
I don’t know.

I wish I knew
almost no one in my life has had a significant experience with either it or mushrooms.
one who gets no visuals on acid got just the giggles (we had no more to experiment with)
another got bad nausea and couldn't try a breakthrough dose (no prior psychedelic experience, but more meditation and other significant life experience than me)
another thinks he just burnt it or something, couldn't get it to work somehow
so frustrating.
didn't bother me at all back when I'd only seen the filmy stuff, but after the breakthroughs I just feel so alone, that no one else knows just how insanely real this stuff is, how insanely beautiful, how bizarrely alien and full of playful activity it is...right there, '15 seconds away' as Rogan put it. 'one quanta away' as McKenna said.

That experience has made it tough for me to go for the breakthrough. I’ve tried a handful of times since and I’ve had some very pleasant experiences, but it seems to me it’s all the same. It fucks got up. It’s an extremely intense psychedelic experience that is unlike any other psychedelic I’ve done. But there is no spiritual element to it.

I’ve been told I haven’t broken through. That there is a threshold amount you’ve got to get into your bloodstream in order to get there, and I’m simply not reaching it. I don’t think I’ve ever reached a point where I physically couldn’t take another hit. Hard to say for sure but I think I’ve put it down of my own accord each time.

So is that the solution? Do you just gotta hit that sonofabitch until you can’t raise it to your lips anymore and BOOM?

apparently everyone gets 'pre-flight jitters'. I think it will always be a mental game. it's an absolutely insane experience, and anything--anything--could happen. I don't even get the body symptoms some people get, and I still worry (but ultimately I look at my life and worry more about not exploring further).

my rapid or insta-breakthroughs are always one-hit (I can't reload my pipe once I lose my view of this world lol, though a couple times I've cleared the crystal dried on the glass first, for a threshold hit, and then loaded up the real hit), and it's definitely clear that I'm getting a lot of vape all at once (a couple people I know seem to have way worse lung capacities than me, maybe they'd need a couple hits). Even my highest mushroom trips that were enough to give me CEVs would never have led to a breakthrough, you definitely need a certain concentration of it in the brain. But other than logistics, I've never reached the point where I couldn't take another hit, either. I've never lost my balance or awareness of what I was doing. Maybe you do have to do that knock-out kinda hit to get to the 'one with god for eternity' type of breakthrough people talk about, but not for the parts I've been to.