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Entity Posession

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secretbrac

Rising Star
A couple weeks ago my partner's DMT trips changed. He stopped getting visuals and started speaking in tongues. It started to freak me out bc I noticed something was taking over his body. He would get this smile on his face I have never seen before, his eyes were different, he moved differently and he would touch me on my forehead. I realized it wasn't him anymore. So it began to kind of scare me. I will also add that he takes shrooms every day after work. It has really helped him stop drinking so it's an every day thing for him but he takes A LOT. I wouldn't call it microdosing....more like 7 grams. Anyways, I have started feeling uncomfortable around him when he does DMT with me. It's fascinating but at the same time, I don't want to do any DMT while he does anymore. I want to be totally alert bc something crazy is happening. The other day he told me this entity that is taking over his body is like a curious child and that they feel bad about scaring me. He was communicating with this entity the other night and showing him around. The entity loved our cat. I notice when he is taking over his body, my partner starts pulling his eyelids, shoving his fingers up his nose and feeling every part of his face. He also put his glasses on upside down and messes with them a lot. Tonight he hit our vape 8 times, which normally makes me breakthrough after 2 hits. He said nothing was happening but he has been acting strange ever since. This whole situation is really crazy. I recorded the language he speaks when this entity takes over his body and so ill post a link. Anyone every experience anything like this. I feel weird sleeping next to him tonight. I know it sounds crazy but it's really happening.

Vocaroo | Online voice recorder

Vocaroo is a quick and easy way to share voice messages over the interwebs.
vocaroo.com vocaroo.com
 
secretbrac,

Things can get very weird, surprising and difficult to predict with regular DMT use, in particular for some psychonauts.

There is nothing wrong with taking integration breaks. My last one was 7 years LOL. All we have to do is stay alive and DMT will be there for us.

Honestly, things have gotten so weird for the two of you, I'd encourage you to put the pipe away (and all other entheogens/drugs/alcohol) as much as possible for about six months, then re-evaluate.

When folks start getting scared, when regular life obligations suffer, these are the kinds of things that call for integration breaks and re-evaluation. A time to care for oneself, lean into work, school, home and community obligations, get out into nature, go hiking, do a lot of journaling, including of dreams. Lean into the mundane.

If you choose to take my advice and things do not improve or change you may want to consider seeking the help of a professional counselor.

I do hope you folks get some relief and things return back to normal. Please do not hesitate to keep us posted. :love:
 
There are real spiritual dangers in opening up to these worlds. I strongly suggest taking a good break and focusing on mundane things.

Getting your spiritual integrity together is in my opinion essential in using these substances. The more you take and the deeper you go, the easier it is to lose the touch with your own spirit and give in to all kinds of fascinating energies that reveal themselves. That is in my experience the number one thing you should understand to avoid.

It was best if there was a healthy spiritual context available for everyone for these experiences but as this is not the case, you must take care of your own spiritual wellbeing. Excessive use and heedlessness acts as a magnet to all kind of murky energies.
 
Yeah guys, lay off the pipe. The rabbit hole is very deep and it's not worth losing it over crazy adventures in the candyland.

Also I'd recommend to go to church if that sounds right to you.
Traditional religion (of your ancestors) is a powerful weapon against all evil spirits.
 
Derealization and fantasy can carry away the mind to dark places. Find a light in your life. Don't get lost. Find a map. Take care of each other. Focus on healing right now. Mend.


“He enters a labyrinth, he multiplies by a thousand the dangers already inherent in the very act of living, not the least of which is the fact that no one with eyes will see how and where he gets lost and lonely and is torn limb from limb by some cave-Minotaur of conscience.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”
― Friedrich W. Nietzsche
 
It's not an entity lol. I get this too from Ayahuasca, Psilohuasca, Changa, it's just something that happens. I talk in tongues, i have inner tantric and ecstatic/blissful experiences which can make me howl with amazement, i break out in spontaneous mudras and yogic body positions/movements, and there's so much more, all of that is coming from within, not from outside and not from entities, it's part of some sort of mystical center within ourselves where we can access all kinds of mystical and sacred phenomena, but it's all within ourselves, within the body and within consciousness. It would be a huge mistake/misunderstanding to attribute this kind of phenomena to "entity possession".
 
That's great mushrooms helped him quit drinking but it sounds like he's taking a rather irresponsible amount daily, and that can unhinge someone overtime. Sounds like he needs a break. No entity is overtaking his body, it's just another part of himself IMO. The hyperspatial right brain mode is so alien to our ordinary state of mind that people often confuse it's partial awakening as an entity or posession IMO. I've had countless experiences where it initially felt like "something else" was taking over, but as that progressed it became self evident that it was me, in a mode we are normally only getting partial glitchy access to.
 
secretbrac said:
I notice when he is taking over his body, my partner starts pulling his eyelids, shoving his fingers up his nose and feeling every part of his face.
Click to expand...

I distinctly remember someone mentioning something very similar on reddit. I searched for a bit and finally found it for you:

I felt myself slip into the back of my mind Then my left hand crawled up my chest, neck, and started to feel my face. It was like my arm was touching my face for the first time or like a blind man feeling some one else’s faces. My fingers slipped into my mouth and got covered in saliva. Then my fingers rubbed under my eye lids and they held up unnaturally wide. Then my fingers rubbed my cheek bones and the muscles in my cheeks raised up. Then my fingers slid across my lips and pulled them apart and most of my teeth were showing. Then I started doing this deep gutteral growling and purring. I felt like I was hosting an old spirit in my body. It started playing with symbols and rooms in the dmt vision.

What I remember most about it was this raw unadulterated power behind the growl.

Yeah that trip changed my perception of dmt
Click to expand...

They haven't posted in 2 months, but appear to still be active enough. If you're familiar with reddit, maybe shoot them a message. If you're not, I can forward a question from you and link to this thread if you'd like? I'll just update the thread for you if they hit me back.

It sounds like your partner should chill out on this. It's not healthy for you to be afraid of this situation and it seems like he's playing with fire. There are a few users here I've seen report very obtrusive entities making their trips progressively more uncomfortable. Felnik, I think, had consistent entity takeovers where they'd make his body uncomfortable, IIRC. Scary stuff.
 
ShamensStamen said:
It's not an entity lol. I get this too from Ayahuasca, Psilohuasca, Changa, it's just something that happens. I talk in tongues, i have inner tantric and ecstatic/blissful experiences which can make me howl with amazement, i break out in spontaneous mudras and yogic body positions/movements, and there's so much more, all of that is coming from within, not from outside and not from entities, it's part of some sort of mystical center within ourselves where we can access all kinds of mystical and sacred phenomena, but it's all within ourselves, within the body and within consciousness. It would be a huge mistake/misunderstanding to attribute this kind of phenomena to "entity possession".
Click to expand...

I've had similar experiences to these as well, especially being in ecstacy while speaking some unknown language.

However...

I won't deny the potential aspects of magic and rhe unknown that may also be at play. There are many African traditions today that still practice actively being possessed. It may come down to one's mind being receptive to the possibility while also gaining access.

That said, anecdotally, I've had one, and only one experience, that I always describe as a possession. It was with a bowl of changa that had chaliponga in it. After hitting the pipe and holding the smoke in, I involuntarily shot up from my altar and began curiously examining things in my room and gazing out the window. The curiosity didn't feel like it was mine, since I simultaneously knew what everything was that was being examined, but also felt another presence that was honing the interaction. I did however feel that if push came to shove, I could regain necessary agency.

The rational response (an idea that I entertain) is that it was a byproduct of my own mind and brain. However, "reality" may not be that practical... (another idea that I entertain).

Relative to safety and harm reduction, it is probably best if you guys take a break from mind altering substances. I don't know how long your partner as been eating 7g of mushrooms daily, but he really should stop. He's likely not operating within the bounds of what we may be calling consensus reality. It also sounds like he swapped one substance abuse problem for another unfortunately. If things don't shape up soon, it may be best for you guys to seek professional help.

One love

One love
 
I agree with everything Void just said.

We should definitely consider our known human issues first before leaning into the paranormal/supernatural aspects of DMT. However, I dislike when people matter-of-factly state their opinions as facts, especially to dismiss someone else's thoughts. Staying grounded and applying Occam's razor is always great advice, but we definitely don't know for sure where everything in the experience comes from.

Regardless of whether it's an external entity possessing you or merely your own brain at the helm, does that even matter? Even if the call is coming from inside the house, you're still without conscious control over yourself, which remains the issue.

I wanted to double-down on what Void said about your partner swapping one substance to abuse for another. It's good he's not drinking, but I'm not sure he's addressed the underlying issues. It honestly seems like he's only not drinking because he's high non-stop instead. I hate gatekeeping psychedelic use, but holy hell, 7g per day is absolutely concerning. Beyond the amount itself, it's not good that he requires being in a severely altered state every single day. The DMT possession stuff is just icing on the cake.

At this point, none of this sounds too fun for either of you, especially with his recent diminished returns. More importantly, his constant use is putting understandable strain on you, to the point you remain sober for safety concerns. You feel weird sleeping next to him, experience clear anxiety/fear when he's tripping, and no longer partake yourself due to his concerning behavior. Is he aware of the stress his actions are causing you?

Personally, I can't ever see eating mush every day as beneficial for anyone, let alone 7g. Regardless of how he feels on DMT, your concerns should make him pump the breaks and reassess. Ultimately, though, people have to set their own limits on how much is too much. But please remember, you can also set limits on what you're willing to tolerate, as well.
 
SacredofDark that reddit post sounds super familiar. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I agree 100% about the shrooms. He has swapped one addiction for another it appears. I will try to get him on this board to read this conversation because he might listen to the opinions of the people here. I am pretty powerless when it comes to his drinking/shroom use but I was hoping that DMT would help him with this. He only recently started using DMT with me and it's such a powerful medicine for people with addictions I was hoping he would just drop the shrooms. Thank you for the thoughtful responses as always.
 
secretbrac said:
SacredofDark that reddit post sounds super familiar. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I agree 100% about the shrooms. He has swapped one addiction for another it appears. I will try to get him on this board to read this conversation because he might listen to the opinions of the people here. I am pretty powerless when it comes to his drinking/shroom use but I was hoping that DMT would help him with this. He only recently started using DMT with me and it's such a powerful medicine for people with addictions I was hoping he would just drop the shrooms. Thank you for the thoughtful responses as always.
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No worries. I hope the situation improves. It might be worthwhile to read up on the term Hyperslap if he hasn't. It's commonly reported that people pushing forward after being "locked out" or unable to feel effects receive a terror trip. They aren't fun.

Our actions can influence change in others, but ultimately the power is always with them. If desired, he needs to find the power in himself to change some of these habits. I am sure you'll offer support in this case. If that doesn't happen, you still won't have the power to make him. Your power is always in choosing how you respond to situations, including removing yourself from them.
 
I firmly believe that the entities are real in the sense that they are manifestations of our deepest subconsciousness presented as an ingrained archetype at a time our brain is at some of its most fragile moments. Being 'possessed' by an entity is not a matter of an outside influence taking hold of a person, but of an inherent perhaps even latent aspect of one overpowering the others at that specific time.

In that sense, I also believe a psychedelic is a tool and our own little clandestine medicine cabinet is a tool box. Like any tool though, they can be severely abused. I don't mean to say use of psychedelics for recreation is wrong by definition (I'd be a hypocrite) but I do think there is a line where use becomes abuse. I'm sorry to say and maybe this is presumptuous of me, but it does sound like your partner has crossed that line.

When using for spiritual or mental benefit, I'd say integration is key. Not only to harvest the benefits of what you've done, but also to become grounded again. Once one has become grounded and clearheaded again, that's when to look back at the parts of the experience that warrant bringing along in your life. To me, that is the real key to learning from psychedelics.

Balance is key. Contrast is key. There is no yin without yang, no black without white or dark without light. Leaning too hard in one direction obviously upsets that balance and that's when things go out of whack. It's no good always staring into the sun, just as there's no good to always sitting in the dark.

Anyone can ingest a whole lot of psychedelic substances and go stark raving mad for a bit. But it takes more than that to use powerful substances like these in a manner that is positive to personal growth. Even with recreational use, moderation is key.

To me it sounds like your partner isn't using DMT (and certainly not the mushrooms) as a means for growth or discovery, or even recreation, but escapism from the real issue at hand: abuse of the substance, en lieu of abuse of another substance. He switched from staring into the sun all the time, to staring at a highly powered light. Even though both will blind you in the end. What he needs to do is take good long look at the dark, a good long look at himself and a good long look at the non-altered reality that is at hand. The fact that it's come to a point where you as a partner are scared of him while tripping should be an eye opener.

I also feel like over-use of any psychedelic will come bite you in the ass at some point. It will teach you the lesson you need and it will not be a pleasant one.

I do want to say this is all my personal opinion and the way I personally view psychedelics. I do not claim it to be the only de facto truth. I also excuse myself for the rather fluffy language at points, but I find these things hard to talk about without at least some figurative speech. Lastly, all of this is going by a handful of forum posts. I make presumptions as to the situation, but we/I do not know the full context of course!

Peace and best of luck to both of you. :)
 
So, there are two separate topics to address here.

First, entity possession and all the magical / esoteric stuff... My educated advice is to chill.

Putting a label on a strange experience, and especially 'possession,' one so loaded with pre-conceptions and harmful superstition, can potentially make it worse, or mislead you from what would be the correct way of handling it. I've seen a bunch of shit, but in general, I haven't seen entities / spirits fuck over anyone who wasn't fucking themselves over to begin with. If you or your friend are practicing religious people, then yes, going to church can be good, but if you aren't, I wouldn't turn to organized religion because of some benign-sounding personality shifts on psychedelics.

Some form of grounding can be helpful, but only you can know what that looks like. Once I had two weeks when I felt lost between worlds, having tripped the shit out of my brain over a festival, and finishing it up with a godsmack of changa from a weird gnome friend's pipe. (That last experience was the most unpleasant DMT-related experience I have ever had, and that's saying a lot.) I ended up just not quite feeling like I'm existing in consensus reality anymore. I saw my girlfriend as a weird eldritch elf thing, and similar stuff. For me, my witchcraft practice and listening to heavy metal was exactly what I needed.

Panicking can only make it worse. Reading up or internalizing other people's beliefs or superstitions can only make it worse. Suggestion is a powerful force, and your minds are more resilient than you might think.

tl;dr breathe, chill out, nothing horrible is happening. based on the description it may even be your friend's own subconscious personality fragments. If it's a personality fragment from infancy, or a mindstate of pure and childlike curiosity, integration might even be beneficial.

Second, mushroom abuse.

Seven grams every day, holy hand grenade of Antioch, what the actual shit?! That is beyond 'irresponsible,' that is a guaranteed trip to cloud cuckoo land.

I knew a person who did this for two months or so. He started falling apart. Had strange nonsequitur ideas. He started raising crickets in his home, did weird 'experiments' with 'composting' (planting houseplants directly into household trash), 'repainted' his home while high, and did other things that you know, most of us realize might not be such a great idea around the time we go to grade school.

He just went off the rails hard. It was sad and scary to watch. In the end he had a really bad trip, went cold turkey, and got back to Earth. (But not before destroying all his pf cakes and spore prints, and disposing of his grow tools in the trash.) I'd consider his story to have ended well. Your friend is in very real danger, but not from any entities except for the one that is feeding him a major trip dose every single day after work - himself.

You can try to talk to him about his drug use. I don't think he should take or smoke anything for the next 6-12 months after this. This is no joke.
 
PsyDuckmonkey said:
Putting a label on a strange experience, and especially 'possession,' one so loaded with pre-conceptions and harmful superstition, can potentially make it worse, or mislead you from what would be the correct way of handling it.
Click to expand...

I sometimes wonder how much of this is a sort of propaganda from a few hundred years ago when colonization visited Africa. European powers need pretexts in order to dominate a subset of people; they're savages/animals, they're stupid, etc. So why not "they're crazy" as well since they actively practice possession in many African cultures. And there is no negative connotations in those cultures as there are in many others. All that to say I agree very much with the idea that the term is loaded with negative associations and connotations.

Also, a curse word here and there is okay, but try to tone it down a little please. Much appreciated.

One love
 
Voidmatrix said:
Also, a curse word here and there is okay, but try to tone it down a little please. Much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Sorry about that. ;)

Voidmatrix said:
I sometimes wonder how much of this is a sort of propaganda from a few hundred years ago when colonization visited Africa. European powers need pretexts in order to dominate a subset of people; they're savages/animals, they're stupid, etc. So why not "they're crazy" as well since they actively practice possession in many African cultures. And there is no negative connotations in those cultures as there are in many others.
Click to expand...
Hm this made me wonder...

About how the people of those cultures, nations, empires that we in the Western world lump together into this amorphous thing as 'Africa' think or would have thought about this word. Because clearly they weren't, aren't calling their spiritual practices by English names. If they had the chance to tell their own stories in English for the world, what word would they choose? Would they use 'possession', or maybe something like 'invocation', 'communion', 'embodiment', or any other from an endless list of possible phrases..?

'Possession' is a very Christian European word, tying back to the Bible. It has all the connotations Christian religion has placed on communion with spirits, gods, entities, archetypes, or whatever we might call them in a specific context.

My point was not that cultures and practices communing with non-human, non-corporeal entities were or are doing something wrong or fallacious... It was that using a very specific Christian concept will invariably carry all the assumptions and ideas associated with it. For example, 'possession' being a malicious affliction that has to be cured through an exorcism.
 
PsyDuckmonkey said:
Voidmatrix said:
Also, a curse word here and there is okay, but try to tone it down a little please. Much appreciated.
Click to expand...
Sorry about that. ;)

Voidmatrix said:
I sometimes wonder how much of this is a sort of propaganda from a few hundred years ago when colonization visited Africa. European powers need pretexts in order to dominate a subset of people; they're savages/animals, they're stupid, etc. So why not "they're crazy" as well since they actively practice possession in many African cultures. And there is no negative connotations in those cultures as there are in many others.
Click to expand...
Hm this made me wonder...

About how the people of those cultures, nations, empires that we in the Western world lump together into this amorphous thing as 'Africa' think or would have thought about this word. Because clearly they weren't, aren't calling their spiritual practices by English names. If they had the chance to tell their own stories in English for the world, what word would they choose? Would they use 'possession', or maybe something like 'invocation', 'communion', 'embodiment', or any other from an endless list of possible phrases..?

'Possession' is a very Christian European word, tying back to the Bible. It has all the connotations Christian religion has placed on communion with spirits, gods, entities, archetypes, or whatever we might call them in a specific context.

My point was not that cultures and practices communing with non-human, non-corporeal entities were or are doing something wrong or fallacious... It was that using a very specific Christian concept will invariably carry all the assumptions and ideas associated with it. For example, 'possession' being a malicious affliction that has to be cured through an exorcism.
Click to expand...

You're not wrong and this is an issue with regard to most things African and how they are interpreted and translated by the western mind. That along with the propaganda to dominate African cultures. We really dont know much about African cultures as we do many others. It's also the issue with translation: there's rarely a one to one correspondence.

With regard to possession in these cultures, ot fits common definition but without negative connotation. In vodun for example, it's a good thing and allows one to learn from the entities or being that is possessing them.

One love
 
scaredofthedark said:
secretbrac said:
I notice when he is taking over his body, my partner starts pulling his eyelids, shoving his fingers up his nose and feeling every part of his face.
Click to expand...

I distinctly remember someone mentioning something very similar on reddit. I searched for a bit and finally found it for you:

Thank so much for directing me to this guy on reddit. he has been so helpful and amazing.
Click to expand...
 
What an interesting thread.

I definitely agree that what is described in OP is an abuse relationship with mushrooms, and possibly by extension DMT. I'm sure you, and to some extent your partner (albeit maybe not consciously) fully understand that the most obvious answer is to "power through" and spend some time sober and grounded. In my opinion entheogens can HELP with addiction, but they aren't a shortcut.

On the whole entity possession thing... It's not my place to gauge what it is or isn't based on a single post... BUT if you're feeling uncomfortable then that is something to solve. I understand you're trying to be supportive of your partner and to be compassionate of his addiction, but make sure your own experience isn't put on the back-burner. You shouldn't have to be afraid to sleep next to your partner -- period.

&& I definitely agree with scaredofthedark about being weary of getting hyperslapped... From what I've read once someone stops feeling breakthrough doses all together it either goes one of two ways:
1. They take a break
or 2. They're forced to take a break

I do hope that you and your partner get through this experience relatively unscathed and in a great place soon :)
 
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