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Research Ethylene gas experiment

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Loveall

Loveall

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Documenting a simple experiment here to test the following hypothesis:

"Stressing cactus in the presence of ethylene gas increases mescaline content".

This hypothesis has been brought up by user modern. See spoiler for more details as I understand the latest status.

Unfortunately, modern did not seal the extraction container when doing CIELO as the TEK specifies, so I don't know what to make of the results. There was however an indication that ehtylene could increase mescaline.
My attempt at investigating this:

11/30/2023: Found two twin basal pups. Assuming they have the same mescaline content beased on symetry. Harvested the top 2/3s. Harvested cuts where divided again, middle thirds for the stress experiment, and the top thirds for replanting/propagation.

Middle cuts where put in large paper bags, and 3 apples (ethylene source) which will be changed out weekly where added to one of the bags (cactus cut A). Cut B is alone per the usual stress aging.

Will extract after a 1.5 months with CIELO and report results towards the end of January.
 
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Attaching a review paper ( "Plant development, stress responses, and secondary metabolism under ethylene regulation" ) with some related info. Phenolic compounds and Alkaloids can be modulated by ethylene. Usually more metabolites are produced, but can also be less.
 

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How long do you plan on keeping the ethylene gas going? I don't think more than 2 weeks is needed; considering most fruits ripen within that time frame and going by the BRIX measurement after 2 weeks most of the sugars are depleted. I doubt that the plant would be able to do much after the depletion of the sugars. I didn't check the BRIX during the ethylene experiment.

The results from my extractions were inconclusive since I did mess up a bit BUT the extraction that did have ethylene treatment visually had much more precipitate.

I'll be repeating this once I have enough material since my scale can't accurately measure under around 80 or so mg.
 
Loveall said:
Attaching a review paper ( "Plant development, stress responses, and secondary metabolism under ethylene regulation" ) with some related info. Phenolic compounds and Alkaloids can be modulated by ethylene. Usually more metabolites are produced, but can also be less.
Click to expand...

Also adding to this we are supplementing extraneous ethylene but during any stress plants increase ethylene production to regulate growth. There is a point that you can add TOO much ethylene causing similar to adding too much CO2 or anything else.

In my experiment I added water to calcium carbide which produces acetylene. However plants convert or use this in the same manner as ethylene.
 
modern said:
How long do you plan on keeping the ethylene gas going? I don't think more than 2 weeks is needed; considering most fruits ripen within that time frame and going by the BRIX measurement after 2 weeks most of the sugars are depleted. I doubt that the plant would be able to do much after the depletion of the sugars. I didn't check the BRIX during the ethylene experiment.
cc
The results from my extractions were inconclusive since I did mess up a bit BUT the extraction that did have ethylene treatment visually had much more precipitate.

I'll be repeating this once I have enough material since my scale can't accurately measure under around 80 or so mg.
Click to expand...


1.5 months since a normal stress is my control.

I will change the apples weekly.
 
Ever get around to completing this experiment? I'm working on my second attempt now. Rather than adding ethylene I'll be keeping the cutting submerged in water simulating a flood and after a week I'll preform the extraction. I have a second cutting of the same stand as a control. Still young and small seedlings only 200g each but still more material than my first attempt.

For the extraction I should have a better result following your new suggestions of less water for the paste and adding .5g sodium carbonate per quart of solvent.
 
So my reattempt using a 'submerged' cutting in water had results similar to last time. VISUALLY there was a LOT more precipitate on the 'ethylene' extract vs the control HOWEVER during the drying on the filter paper it all disappeared and dried within the filter. Final weight was also too small for me to weight but getting goo again the issue with the crystals drying on the paper was a pain. Any ideas?

TEK - Ethyl acetate approach [CIELO]

Out of simple curiosity, could we extract from fresh blended cactus instead of cactus powder? If we do the freeze rest afterwards, the amount of water could thus be controlled, right? We would need to adjust the amount of lime, I suppose, but otherwise, it seems rather practical as it would...
forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me
 
modern said:
So my reattempt using a 'submerged' cutting in water had results similar to last time. VISUALLY there was a LOT more precipitate on the 'ethylene' extract vs the control HOWEVER during the drying on the filter paper it all disappeared and dried within the filter. Final weight was also too small for me to weight but getting goo again the issue with the crystals drying on the paper was a pain. Any ideas?

TEK - Ethyl acetate approach [CIELO]

Out of simple curiosity, could we extract from fresh blended cactus instead of cactus powder? If we do the freeze rest afterwards, the amount of water could thus be controlled, right? We would need to adjust the amount of lime, I suppose, but otherwise, it seems rather practical as it would...
forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me
Click to expand...
You need to seal all your extraction jars. Also, lower the water in your paste, needs to be the minimum ammount that makes a paste that sticks to itself.
 
Maybe since only cover with foil it causes humidity to be captured? I did use the sodium carbonate drying. In any case I need a higher starting material since content is too small to weigh. I did like the submerged idea. Many are certain that alkaloids are a defense action so a quick biosynthesis vs weeks/months makes more sense. I'll repeat this flooding using only 3-4 days to reduce rotting. Like my first experiment visually there was a large difference in precipitate but ended up having issues with it drying within the paper.
 
Loveall said:
No, but I have the dry cacti experimental split ready to grind and extract. Thanks for the reminder.
Click to expand...
I'm letting my cacti grow for a few more months before attempting since my peruvianus have mostly been duds. Only 1 tested at .8% hcl. I've been using too little material so measuring the yield has been a pain. I'll post my results here once I get around to it as well.
 
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