Experiment: Mescaline Citrate solubility in Ethyl Acetate.

[SteveBaxter]

I was having difficulty finding solubility data for mescaline citrate in Ethyl Acetate, so I ran an experiment. The mescaline citrate is in the form of fluffy white crystals obtained from CIELO tek and the ethyl acetate is in the form found in the can at any hardware store.

The results are conclusive; mescaline citrate is virtually insoluble in dry ethyl acetate. I weighed out 50 mg of mescaline citrate, and gradually added ethyl acetate until the crystals dissolved completely. Despite adding 465 mL of ethyl acetate, most of the mescaline citrate remained out of solution. The mixture was allowed to sit for 6+ hours (still sitting) to ensure it is in equilibrium.


I could continue this indefinitely if the data is important, but the solubility of mescaline citrate is significantly less than .11 mg/mL in unused ethyl acetate at 73°F.

I plan on running more experiments to determine how much more soluble these crystals are in used ethyl acetate (i.e. ethyl acetate with the max moisture content at room temperature).

This information is practical because it shows that copious amounts of ethyl acetate can be used to remove contaminants from a botched extraction. It also shows that that the salted product isn't meaningfully remaining in solvent.

 

[Transform]

I was having difficulty finding solubility data for mescaline citrate in Ethyl Acetate, so I ran an experiment. The mescaline citrate is in the form of fluffy white crystals obtained from CIELO tek and the ethyl acetate is in the form found in the can at any hardware store.

The results are conclusive; mescaline citrate is virtually insoluble in dry ethyl acetate. I weighed out 50 mg of mescaline citrate, and gradually added ethyl acetate until the crystals dissolved completely. Despite adding 465 mL of ethyl acetate, most of the mescaline citrate remained out of solution. The mixture was allowed to sit for 6+ hours (still sitting) to ensure it is in equilibrium.


I could continue this indefinitely if the data is important, but the solubility of mescaline citrate is significantly less than .11 mg/mL in unused ethyl acetate at 73°F.

I plan on running more experiments to determine how much more soluble these crystals are in used ethyl acetate (i.e. ethyl acetate with the max moisture content at room temperature).

This information is practical because it shows that copious amounts of ethyl acetate can be used to remove contaminants from a botched extraction. It also shows that that the salted product isn't meaningfully remaining in solvent.

Thanks for performing this useful piece of research - I think @endlessness may have tested this and reported it in the CIELO entry in the wiki, but that's a rusty memory and even if he did it's still useful to have independent confirmation

And - welcome to the Nexus - nice way to make an entry!

 

[SteveBaxter]

Thanks

I didn't see it on the wiki, and I could not find the information when I was first figuring out the CIELO process.

I was not expecting the solubility to be as low as it is. I am really curious as to what extent water influences the solubility dynamics. I know that fresh EA makes pretty crystals and the crystals from used EA are sad, but I'm really curious as to whats going on and if there is anything I can do about.

Thanks for performing this useful piece of research - I think @endlessness may have tested this and reported it in the CIELO entry in the wiki, but that's a rusty memory and even if he did it's still useful to have independent confirmation

And - welcome to the Nexus - nice way to make an entry!

 

[Transform]

Thanks

I didn't see it on the wiki, and I could not find the information when I was first figuring out the CIELO process.

I was not expecting the solubility to be as low as it is. I am really curious as to what extent water influences the solubility dynamics. I know that fresh EA makes pretty crystals and the crystals from used EA are sad, but I'm really curious as to whats going on and if there is anything I can do about.

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the wiki and didn't have time to read through everything - tbf, it may have been some other conversation with @endlessness where we discussed these results. We'll look at transferring your data into the wiki in due course - unless you manage to sign in and add it yourself, of course.

 

[shroombee]

The results are conclusive; mescaline citrate is virtually insoluble in dry ethyl acetate. I weighed out 50 mg of mescaline citrate, and gradually added ethyl acetate until the crystals dissolved completely. Despite adding 465 mL of ethyl acetate, most of the mescaline citrate remained out of solution. The mixture was allowed to sit for 6+ hours (still sitting) to ensure it is in equilibrium.

I could continue this indefinitely if the data is important, but the solubility of mescaline citrate is significantly less than .11 mg/mL in unused ethyl acetate at 73°F.

Thanks for doing this experiment! Do you mean the mescaline citrate dissolved completely, but then it precipitated out over time?

With an extraction last year where I was testing yields, I used an excess of new ethyl acetate when pulling from the cactus paste. After adding the citric acid using the dump and magnetic stir method, it took a few(?) days for all of the mescaline citrate to precipitate out of solution. I've left the ethyl acetate with the mescaline citrate in a sealed mason jar for nearly 10 months, with no apparent change in the volume of the mescaline citrate.

 

[SteveBaxter]

Thanks for doing this experiment! Do you mean the mescaline citrate dissolved completely, but then it precipitated out over time?

With an extraction last year where I was testing yields, I used an excess of new ethyl acetate when pulling from the cactus paste. After adding the citric acid using the dump and magnetic stir method, it took a few(?) days for all of the mescaline citrate to precipitate out of solution. I've left the ethyl acetate with the mescaline citrate in a sealed mason jar for nearly 10 months, with no apparent change in the volume of the mescaline citrate.

Good catch!

No, it never dissolved.

I'm not sure if this means that such a small amount of mescaline citrate would crash out of ethyl acetate during the acidification phase of the cielo tek or if the crystal phase is so stable that it will not re-dissolve once formed. I'm currently performing an experiment to determine whether a liquid-liquid extraction using water and ethyl acetate can purify the extremely contaminated product a sometimes obtain during the final pulls of the cielo tek. I dissolved a small amount of mesc. citrate in a Ca(OH)2 solution and am attempting to get it back into EA so i can re-purify it. If it works, it will help shed light on this issue.

update: I dissolved ~5 mg of mescaline citrate in a 10 mL aqueous solution of Ca(OH)2 before mixing the solution with ethyl acetate. Once the two layers separated, I waited 8 hours and collected the ethyl acetate layer. This process was completed twice with 20mL portions of ethyl acetate. 0.05g of citric acid per 10mL of EA was then added to the solution.

Despite the extremely small amount of mescaline citrate in the relatively large portion of ethyl acetate, recrystalization occurred. This suggests that virtually no mescaline citrate remains in solution after recrystalization and that a liquid-liquid extraction is, at least in principle, a viable means of purification.

 

[PanSeq]

Now calculate the Ksp

 

[fiM]

does this mean if have a pile of citrate and I wanted now to get it back into EA I could add lime water with citrate and EA leave sit, do a few pulls and all the citrate will be back into EA to be able to change to sulf?? or is that just wasting time??