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Explanation for Orally Active Jurema

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drainlife20

drainlife20

Rising Star
Sorry if this particular theory has already been discussed, but I was thinking the other day and I've come up with a very reasonable explanation as to why jurema is orally active without the aid of an MAOI. Stomach acid contains hydrochloric acid. So it can convert DMT into a salt in your stomach I'm betting. I'd test this myself but I'd rather not throw up into a beaker to see if it salts out :) It just seems more reasonable than a mystery alkaloid doing the job.

And I know this sounds ridiculous, but is there a way to separate the hydrochloric acid in stomach acid? Just a thought for those that are afraid of buying precursors. It's interesting to note, stomach acid has a pH level of 1 to 2.....
 
It all sounds pretty ridiculous! DMT is already salted in the plant material and any that is not salted yes, will be salted in your stomach. I do not see however how this fact makes jurema orally active, since it's the MAOIs that keep dmt safe from degradation.

As for your second bit, why would you want to do that? Like, shit, I need to find an acid (already stupid, one can use vinegar) but cannot risk buying it. So I'm gonna puke and use my gastric juices (now that is dangerously stupid), and now I'm gonna play smart and separate the hydrochloric acid to use it for my extractions?!?!?!?!
 
Well the MAOI's slow down the digesting process, it doesn't actually stop it from happening, I'm sure you know that. You can consume a large amount of DMT without an MAOI and still have effects. And people can't seem to agree on it being freebase or salt in the plant itself(as you said, any that is not salted would be salted with ingestion), isn't that the whole a/b argument really? Why use an acid to convert it to salt just to change it back to freebase? I'm just pointing out, people say that freebase DMT wouldn't be orally active, but it would convert to a salt if you ate it, so it actually would be orally active. But I wasn't talking about using hydrochloric acid for extractions at all, but to make dmt-hcl instead of dmt-fumarate. And if you've ever had aya it pretty much makes you puke, I wouldn't really call intentionally puking dangerously stupid, stupid, sure, but dangerous? Eh, not that dangerous. I've drank alcohol and puked many times as I'm sure many people have.
 
Well the MAOI's slow down the digesting process, it doesn't actually stop it from happening, I'm sure you know that. You can consume a large amount of DMT without an MAOI and still have effects.
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No. We do not fully know how dmt is metabolised in the body and how it is cleared out. MAO degradation is a big part of the story but not the whole story. As for oral dosing dmt alone, there are poor reports around, some say 600mg is ok, others report eating 2g and still not feeling anything. And if there is any reason you can actually trip on oral dmt alone is that because the quantity is so much that your MAOs are overwhelmed and eventually some dmt will pass to your bloodstream.

And people can't seem to agree on it being freebase or salt in the plant itself(as you said, any that is not salted would be salted with ingestion), isn't that the whole A/B argument really? Why use an acid to convert it to salt just to change it back to freebase?
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It doesn't matter that much whether it is a salt or a freebase, an A/B extraction is done with a view to get as much as possible out of the plant, acid will simply make it water soluble (in which case one can easily grasp the opportunity and get rid of any non-polar impurities).

I'm just pointing out, people say that freebase DMT wouldn't be orally active, but it would convert to a salt if you ate it, so it actually would be orally active.
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In theory yes, but in practice one cannot be in his stomach and observe whether all the freebase dmt he just ate gets salted. This is an important point, since the unique composition of gastric juice may make more (or less!) things to a freebase than just salting it.

But I wasn't talking about using hydrochloric acid for extractions at all, but to make dmt-hcl instead of dmt-fumarate.
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So you want to extract HCl from the stomach to make dmt-cl??


And if you've ever had aya it pretty much makes you puke, I wouldn't really call intentionally puking dangerously stupid, stupid, sure, but dangerous? Eh, not that dangerous. I've drank alcohol and puked many times as I'm sure many people have.
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Well... it is a different thing puking when on aya, puking when drunk and waking up in the morning and say ok, i'm gonna try to puke 500ml gastric juice I got to salt some freebase today!
 
It's juremamine that's causing the oral activity. It's a large molecule that contains a dmt part, just like with the psilocin molecule. Heat destroys it, so only cold water infusion will work. You need really huge amounts, though, to get ayahuasca-like effects.
 
Oh no, I'm not actually suggesting somebody should ever do it. I was more or less curious if anybody ever has done it, and if somebody with more knowledge than me would know if it's even possible to do. There are much easier ways to get hcl. It'd be pretty painful and pointless to throw up in order to get enough hcl for a full blown extraction, but it wouldn't be as big of a deal to not eat for a day, drink a glass of water, and get dilute acid for dmt hcl. It'd be pretty dumb and hilarious, but I'm just sharing an idea that nobody has talked about as far as I know.

I know there are many factors in play, such as how much stomach acid a person produces personally, what they have ate if anything, all that stuff. I wasn't suggesting that anybody should eat a gram of DMT either, I was only sharing a possible theory as to why it's sometimes orally active. I just haven't seen anybody suggest it. Seems more likely of an explanation than a mystery alkaloid that nobody can seem to prove exists. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best explanation.
 
And people can't seem to agree on it being freebase or salt in the plant itself(as you said, any that is not salted would be salted with ingestion), isn't that the whole A/B argument really? Why use an acid to convert it to salt just to change it back to freebase?
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I'm only going to bother destroying 1 or 2 of these hypothesises.

It is a salt in the plant. Plant's do not usually create freebase substances. In an A/B extraction the acid is used to help break down cell walls and pull out as much of the alkaloid as possible. It is then based to make is soluable in a non-polar solvent.

2) DMT HCL is not orally active...unless MASSIVE doses are taken. MAOI's destroy the dmt as soon as it hits your stomach and if ANY does make it into your blood stream MAOI's in your blood will destroy the rest. As Ronue stated the only way to overcome this is to eat enough DMT to inhibit ALL of the MAOI's in your body...and that is a lot of spice to ingest.

I do not believe your theory is correct. They have already isolated a few chemicals from Mimosa that could easily explain its oral activity and I believe there are plenty more in there that help with this effect.


Edit:Sorry, I removed some of the harsher language.
 
like i said: the oral activity comes from yuremamine. there's much information about this on the net. Trying dangerous things is completely unnescecary, especially when it will not result in pleasant experiences.
 
endlessness said:
yuremamine is one theory... there are others

one question I have.. did anybody try jungle spice orally without maoi? thats something I wondered about lately
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Reports I have read here and there on the net say it is inactive. I couldn't tell you the method used for getting the jungle.

Also from what I have read in the traditional preparation of Juerma the Mimosa was cold extracted and not reduced. Yuramine apparently degrades with high temperatures. Doing an A/B would destroy this compound...also high pHs are said to degrade yuramine as well. It is only a theory though.
 
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