flickedbic said:
Superb work endlessness. Kudos to you. And a pretty picture
How long were the ethanol pulls, and was there any heat or agitation involved?
Also, once the DMT acetate is freebased, is it still hydroscopic?
Thanks! The ethanol pulls were maybe an hour long, i dont remember exactly. No heat, occasional shaking everytime I passed by the jar. In the way I made the freebasing of the acetate, it hard to say if its still hygroscopic because the sodium carbonate excess absorbs any moisture..
flickedbic said:
In his thread "Acetates, the solution to all needs DMT" -
Acetates, the solution to all needs DMT. - Advanced/Enhanced chemistry - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus , q21q21 Said
SWIM's calculations and practical tests suggest each ml (of 5% vinegar) can convert ~150mg of DMT(...) SWIM's tests also suggest that at 95-99% of the alkaloids pulled by 5% vinegar are DMT related compounds.)
He recommends evaporating the vinegar with heat breaking acetate bonds to yield a freebase, saying
the acetates are evaporated off since the flash point of acetic acid is 39C. The process leaves the freebase behind(...)
and
the vinegar could also be placed in a container with some herbs and evaporated indirectly over simmering/boiling water for enhanced-leaf for changa(...) though it would probably be easier just to melt the goo into the herb later(...) used in a tincture by dissolving the product in a water/vinegar mix (1:4 vinegar to water has worked for SWIM) which can be used as an ingredient for oral pharmahuasca (4a) or sublingual lingahuasca (5a)
Others claim
this method of freebase conversion (heat assisted evaporation) leads to superior yields.
The problem with this method is that its based on theory that the acetate evaporates off, which im not sure if its proven. Also, often vinegar has other impurities that arent just acetic acid and that may not evaporate off. Amor Fati has extensively worked with this method and in the end he decided to stop because he started feeling somehow sick from the effects of smoking this converted acetate by boiling off. He felt there was a lingering taste that didnt feel healthy (which I guess it either shows not all acetic acid is boiling off, or something else in vinegar remains). Personally I tried this method once and it still smelled somewhat vinegary (or at least not freebase-like) even after a long time. So I opted for the other technique
As to what all else is in there; we've just gotta figure out what all in MHRB is soluble in Ethanol, and vinegar (which supposedly pulls around 97% DMT related compounds, above).
flickedbic said:
MHRB contains the following:
this is all translated from german.. it might have a slightly different name in english.
in the bark there were found more than one Triterpene-Saponines (Mimonoside A, B and C)
it also contains the following Steroidsaponines (3-O-ß-D-glucopyranosyl-campesterol, 3-O-ß-D-glucopyranosyl-stigmasterol, 3-O-ß-D-glucopyranosyl-ß-sitosterol)
these are all active.
it also contains Luperol, Campesterol, Stigmasterol and ß-sitosterol
the bark also contains massive amounts of Calciumoxalat crystals and a lot of starch and tannins.
the following alkaloids were found: N,N-DMT, 5-Hydroxytriptamine and ß-carbolines
on top of this a new "chalcone" was found. it was named after the maya god Kukulcan: Kukulkanine
here's a write up of all the differnt stuff which the bark contains:
- Triterpene-Saponines (Mimonosides A, B and C)
- Steroidsaponines (3-O-ß-D-glucopyranosyl-campesterol, 3-O-ß-D-glucopyranosyl-stigmasterol, 3-O-ß-D-glucopyranosyl-ß-sitosterol)
- Luperol
- Campesterol
- Stigmasterol
- ß-sitosterol
- N,N-DMT
- 5-Hydroxytriptamine
- ß-carbolines
- Kukulkanine
- a lot of starch and tannins
my source for this is the "Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants" by Christian Rätsch (german 4th edition from 1999)
hmmm, thanks for this, I have the encyclopedia in english version (2005 maybe?), I will check if it still says the same.. The problem with Christian Ratsch is that there's some dubious and/or badly referenced material in the encyclopedia, so unless he mentions the sources for the info, it's kinda hard to just take what he says at face value. Thanks for pointing it out though, I will certainly check it out and compare with results of my analysis.
flickedbic said:
In the thread lorax started with the info above, Noman chimed in saying...on the non-scientific side, my friend has been experimenting with aya analogs using mimosa extracts of varying degrees of purity.
Taken with extracted harmala, he has found that a simple methanol extract gives a deep, long trip - ecstatic and euphoric, while pure crystalline DMT is more like an hour long smoked dose, fast and intense with an abrupt drop off.
Thats interesting and I will keep this in mind, though of course if the person knew they were consuming a different product, its hard to know how much is self-suggestion and how much is pharmacology and different alkaloid profile at work.
flickedbic said:
Endlessness, you agreed with burnt when he said Jungle spice dissolves in alcohol, and it looks soluble in vinegar as well* so there is probably jungle in that there spice.
Yeah, jungle is mostly DMT with a small amount of other alkaloids, which I think might indeed also be there. Im curious as to what analysis will show. It might take around 2-3 weeks for GC-MS and a couple of months for LC-MS work.
flickedbic said:
I read that tannins are soluble in both alcohol and vinegar; so that is probably a portion of your final product as well. A first step of washing the MHRB in an acetone defat step to remove the tannins might mean a more pure spice. This may slightly lower the amount of jungle spice in the final result, as I think the jungle spice may be slightly soluble in acetone.
Possibly but I think using sodium carbonate would change this, im not sure if tannins would remain. We need someone more chem-savy to let us know.
flickedbic said:
I was also thinking about something and then read it here, what do you think: "(In mimosa) DMT is present as(...) DMT tannate(...) most root barks high in tannins contain alkaloids as tannate salts.
I don’t think you can freebase a tannate salt using (bases weaker than) sodium hydroxide.
You'd likely need to acidify your bark first with a stronger acid than tannic acid, so that you create an alkaloid salt that sodium carbonate can freebase. If you soaked the bark in vinegar first, that would decompose DMT tannate into DMT acetate and tannic acid. Then sodium carbonate will have no problem freebasing the DMT acetate."
-JanissaryJames,
https://mycotopia.net/forums/botanicals/42118-dmt-extraction-tek-no-use-lye-read.html
I've also read somewhere on this forum "that dmt tannate is not as soluble in alcohol as is dmt freebase" and so doing the vinegar soak before basifying and pulling may increase potency of the final yield.
Im not sure of this chemical reasoning. I would have imagined sodium carb paste would have freebased all DMT and made it soluble in ethanol. Maybe someone more chem savvy can give their feedback
mew said:
can one use mgs04 on 151 (thats as strong as everclear here is anyway) filter solids then use this instead of purchased high grade ethanol?
furthermore is it edible without laxitive effects?
Im not sure how effective magnesium sulphate is for drying wet ethanol. I can imagine it will take some of the water and then you can decant away from the wet MgSO4, but I dont know if any remaining water will stay and if this remaining water might even have some of the MgSO4 dissolved in it, which would end up in your final product. In any case, lets say, even if you dont dry it, I think it will still work, with the difference that your final product will always carry some sodium carbonate and some sodium acetate or other water-soluble salts formed in the freebasing process. Then you could theoretically use some water to dissolve the sodium carb and other salts and leave the dmt freebase behind (or use some dry acetone or another solvent to pick dmt and leave those salts behind).