Farewell DMT

[obliguhl]

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. DMT can certainly be meaningful to people. So can the Bible, your nightly dreams, and astrology. I just realized that for me, there is nothing there but intense euphoria followed by crashing mindfucks that magically disappear and leave me wanting to do it again and again and again like Sisyphus pushing that boulder back up the hill for eternity.

A great personal revelation that is. It takes a lot to acknowledge bad things in ones life, and its even harder to get rid of them. What is bad for one person is good for another, mind you. But as long as you generalize things (e.g "DMT is a bitch") then its fine and i'm happy,that you've now opened another chapter in your life. Take your experience and grow from it. I think you will be amazed what time will bring for you!

Take care and good luck!

 

[wade]

this is a great thread. i love how you have the courage to say things a lot of people on this forum apparently dont want to hear. your perspective is appreciated.

 

[Virola78]

Judging from you posts I think that maybe you are just not the type to do psychedelics? To me a trip or series of trips (over months sometimes) very much serve as a climax or catalyst to end and introduce a new phase in my life. Much like a birthday (my sister got a baby) or some other significant moment. Joe, do you celebrate your birthday? Do you make it something special?

May I suggest you wait till autumn. Then one sunny morning take your ipod and go into the fields and try to find some liberty caps or whatever mushroom grows where you live. Make a real project out of it, do your homework, locate the fields where the sheep graze, get a microscope.. etc Then take some of those mushrooms on a specially prepared planned and lived up to dark winter evening.

Or something like that..

 

[embracethevoid]

OP: Did you get your ass kicked? What kind of trips did you get?

Like most people here, I wouldn't expect any seasoned DMT veteran to speak in that manner about it. I take it you are resigned to the viewpoint that it's "just another drug" now.

Is it reasonable for us to expect the universe to make perfect human rational sense?

In physics, it definitely does. Most physical laws are very simple.

 

[joebono]

You say there is “no meaning to any of it”, but I think you’re confusing meaning with understanding. I believe there is deep meaning in the experiences. but the meaning is often beyond our understanding. I can show my 7-year old nephew a calculus book, and just because he doesn’t see the meaning within doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

Great analogy, IMO.

I don't see it as a calculus textbook with utility and purpose for those who study it. I see it as the Bible, bullshit that confuses you and makes you think there is divinity where there is none. The greatest scam of all time.

 

[joebono]

"there is nothing there but intense euphoria followed by crashing mindfucks that magically disappear and leave me wanting to do it again and again and again like Sisyphus pushing that boulder back up the hill for eternity. That's a bitch"

like sex??

LOL!! OMG yes!!! There have been so many times when I wish sex drive would just go away. I mean, sometimes it just becomes so intense that it becomes like an annoyance, like a biological necessity. More like needing to expel something from you body. And sometimes the sex has been so good and so powerful that I say to myself, "OK, this is it, it's never going to get better than this. This is the last orgasm of my life. I hope after this my sex drive just goes away and stops distracting me already." But, it always comes back and I'm happy to have another orgasm. And then as soon as the orgasm is done, my consciousness changes instantly. All that passion and desire is just gone and I'm like, "Oh my God... what the hell was I so worked up about?" It doesn't make sense after it happens. Luckily, I learned to stop being ashamed of this, and stop questioning my biological desires, or any desires. I can just allow them to arise and die away when it's appropriate. It's not right or wrong, it just happens whether I personally want it to or not. Questioning it or feeling bad, or regretting won't change what has already happened.

Another sex drive but one that demands DMT? Just what we all need in our lives.

If only DMT were as innocuous as an orgasm. When your mind starts playing tricks straight out of your Abnormal Psychology textbook in order to facilitate the continued use of the drug, it goes way beyond guilt, questioning or feeling bad. It reaches a point where I pulled my head out of the clouds, rolled my eyes at the poetry, and got rational.

 

[Rgeular Dudess]

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread yet but I feel like I have to mention about the Tibetan Book of the Dead and about a yogi's experiences in the other bardo -realms.

What I've concluded by reading trip reports and learning about (Tibetan-) Buddhism is that the use of dmt enables one's mind to go to a similar state as the one during the death/transition process... According to many Tibetan yogis, during the intermediate state between this life and the next (process of "death" ) one perceives things very similar to dmt experiences. But according to the monks it all is just projections of the mind (imprints of the past lives, the most recent one as well) no matter how real or great some visions seem. During that process one should realize that it's all an illusion. Buddhists aim to abandon their desires and the same goes to the visions, one can become attached to a vision and thus be drawn in a new life (the cycle f suffering the births and deaths again). But if one understands the nature of the visions and the things she/he is undergoing to be mere projections of the mind, he'll be instantly enlightened and will be free of the death-rebirth -cycle.

So if you look at it this way the use of dmt poses significant risk of getting very attached to the seemingly wonderful things it provides but one could use it as a tool as well.. To undergo the experiences and understand the true nature of whatever comes forth. So in this way I think all of the experiences were very useful for you.

These are just my observations in accordance to many Buddhist teachers.

Watch this short segment ( from 8:00 minutes onwards) of a Buddhist documentary where a seasoned yogi explains about the experiences which one can undergo during intense meditation.

The Tibetan Book of the Dead.1 - A Way of Life. 1/5 (documentary).

Tibetan Book of the Dead (Wiki).

Bardo Thodol - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ragabr]

Hope you find what works for you joe.

Please look within yourself and see why you continue to project the responsibility for this outcome. The anger and indignation each of your responses carries suggests to me that you haven't found the underlying source of this behavior pattern.

 

[Rgeular Dudess]

I think you miss the point that opening the mind is a wonderful experience and it, in itself, is enlightenment. Enlightenment comes in many forms,

As I wrote it seems to me that it isn't an automatic enlightenment.. But sure, one can become enlightened during a dmt experience. I don't know specifically what it takes though.

 

[gibran2]

Gibran, I agree with you. I am projecting my hopes, desires and expectations on DMT. But we all do that. You believe it is mysterious and that it shows you how little you really know while others project elegance onto it. I am projecting skepticism onto it. And actually that is one of the effects of the drug on me: to imagine the opposite of what I feel. I felt DMT was the most powerful stuff in the universe and that it gave the most extreme and jarring experiences, but after applying the oppositional viewpoint to it, I neutralized it.

You're right, my experience is probably not typical. Most people will not have the affinity I had for the drug and take it as regularly as me. Or who knows? There are probably many out there who are taking stupid amounts of DMT and smoking changa all night long who can relate. Anyway it's important that there's a devil's advocate who claims the whole experience is intense nonsense.

Claiming that DMT is a mystery – that I don’t know what it really is all about – is not the same as projecting my hopes, desires, etc. onto it. When I say it is a mystery to me, that is a statement of fact. If I were to say that it allows me to “know it all” or if I were to say it is “seductive and cruel” I would be expressing beliefs or opinions, not facts.

My point is that DMT is what it is. It hasn’t changed. YOU have changed – your opinions and beliefs regarding DMT have changed, but DMT hasn’t.

You’ve made it abundantly clear that DMT is not for you. It probably never was, but it took you a while to figure that out. If nothing else, you’ve learned that it’s not for you. And hopefully you’ve learned a few things about yourself along the way.

It’s like food allergies: Some people discover that they’re allergic to peanuts. The discovery might be horrific – throat swelling closed, near death, emergency room. After such a discovery, I suppose it’s natural to view peanuts as evil poison, and to those allergic, I guess they are. But not everyone is allergic to them. To most people, peanuts are a tasty nutritious food, not poison.

I appreciate most of what you’ve said in this thread. It serves as yet another cautionary tale regarding a very powerful psychedelic substance. Most of us who are more experienced with DMT understand this, but some who are newer to the experience don’t understand how incredibly powerful it is. Your words in this thread might save some newer members from unnecessary trauma, and I thank you for that.

 

[kyrolima]

Point of view1: dmt is addicting substance and blures your vision on reality
Point of view2: dmt is a mindaltering substance which enables you to see and awaken

Group 1 will always think of addiction if they get to read Group 2's opinions about dmt.

Group 2 thinks, he's using it wrongly if he experiences just confusion and addiction.

Which of the 2 is right? I don't know. But statistically and most likely Group2!
Thank you very much for reading, i'm out of here.

 

[MySmelf]

DMT addictive? I think its just the opposite. Only about 1 out of every 8 times that I seriously plan to take DMT do I actually do it. I always seem to come up with excuses not to. I have to really push myself to launch. But afterward I'm soo glad I did. Its usually such a beautiful wonderful and yes chaotic experience.

Maybe there's meaning in the chaos and maybe there isn't, I'm not sure yet. For me the benefits and meaning come not from the chaos of the experience itself but later on and in surprisingly subtle ways.

For example, I used to be a big weed advocate and everyday pothead. I loved it and never thought I'd want to stop. But now after using DMT for a little while I find I'm rapidly losing all desire to smoke pot. I now realize I like being clear headed and I just don't think as clearly as I once thought I did while high. And also, I never realized before how much it affected me the next day.

I feel DMT is like exercising or doing strenuous activities, if you work your muscles too much too often without giving them time to rest you'll hurt yourself.

I LOVE snowboarding! Its my favorite thing to do. When I spend too much time on the slopes without taking breaks I usually end up getting hurt. Also I don't gain any answers or ultimate truth from it but that doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. To me snowboarding and DMT are similar, they both bring joy, beauty,excitement, and a kind of spirituality to my life.

 

[obliguhl]

Group 2 thinks, he's using it wrongly if he experiences just confusion and addiction.

That's just not true mr dmt. Just read the thread and you will find quite some people who believe that DMT can bring meaning...but still respect joes decision. I don't think that you can "use it wrongly". If it doesn't help him, so be it. There might be other things more suitable for him.

 

[joebono]

Claiming that DMT is a mystery – that I don’t know what it really is all about – is not the same as projecting my hopes, desires, etc. onto it. When I say it is a mystery to me, that is a statement of fact. If I were to say that it allows me to “know it all” or if I were to say it is “seductive and cruel” I would be expressing beliefs or opinions, not facts.

The fact that you think it is mystery elevates it to a status above, say sugar or vodka. We don't think they are mysteries that hide some other world or link us to realities outside of ourselves. I no longer consider DMT a mystery and once I stopped viewing it as such, it felt as if the curtains were pulled back and the true nature of the Wizard of Oz was revealed.

Perhaps that was the lesson learned from my final attempt at integration. There is nothing to integrate.

 

[joebono]

Hope you find what works for you joe.

Please look within yourself and see why you continue to project the responsibility for this outcome. The anger and indignation each of your responses carries suggests to me that you haven't found the underlying source of this behavior pattern.

I take full responsibility for getting gulled and kidding myself. It is just frustratingly fascinating to see how my dance with DMT blindsided me.

The underlying source of my behavior pattern. Oh, that is simple - I seek pleasure and avoid pain like we all do. The problem was that I got the two mixed up.

I used to think these experiences were true freedom and liberation. The past few weeks have cleared my mind and showed me that I was in chains, wrapped up so tight that I couldn't move. Of course there is some anger, I blew two years of my life by becoming enmeshed in a lifestyle that was detrimental to me.

 

[○]

Move forward friend. It's over. It's not for you.. just as you've stated.

An enigma wrapped within an enigma stretched into infinity.

These experiences always show me that I know very little, and thats probably an understatement.

Best of luck to you man

See sig below

 

[Felnik]

it sounds like too much of a good thing. doing it too often without reflection is bad news and can really mess with your head.

I always remember my bad trips and thats why I never never do it under less than optimum circumstances.
I have also learned to put space between my journeys . For a while i was on a once a week regiment and realized that it was too much .

I think that it can be dangerous because there is nothing that can compare to it.
It is the most extreme inner experience a person can have. I am not normally an addictive person but i've had my moments in the heat of a wild intense spice run.

balance is everything

 

[gibran2]

Claiming that DMT is a mystery – that I don’t know what it really is all about – is not the same as projecting my hopes, desires, etc. onto it. When I say it is a mystery to me, that is a statement of fact. If I were to say that it allows me to “know it all” or if I were to say it is “seductive and cruel” I would be expressing beliefs or opinions, not facts.

The fact that you think it is mystery elevates it to a status above, say sugar or vodka. We don't think they are mysteries that hide some other world or link us to realities outside of ourselves. I no longer consider DMT a mystery and once I stopped viewing it as such, it felt as if the curtains were pulled back and the true nature of the Wizard of Oz was revealed.

Perhaps that was the lesson learned from my final attempt at integration. There is nothing to integrate.

The fact that I consider DMT a mystery does nothing to its status. When I say it is a mystery, I am acknowledging that I don’t understand what it’s all about. I am acknowledging my ignorance with respect to DMT.

I don’t know your true identity. Your true identity is a mystery to me. Yet I don't elevate your status as a result. Why would I?

Based on your posts in this thread, it’s clear that before your recent conversion, you claimed to understand DMT – to know what it was all about. And now, post-conversion, you still claim to know what it’s all about. In both cases, you’ve claimed to have knowledge that you can’t possibly have.

And regarding integration – every post you’ve made in this thread is part of your integration of your DMT experiences. You don’t see that? If there was nothing to integrate, then why have you made these posts?

 

[Apoc]

Another sex drive but one that demands DMT? Just what we all need in our lives.

If only DMT were as innocuous as an orgasm. When your mind starts playing tricks straight out of your Abnormal Psychology textbook in order to facilitate the continued use of the drug, it goes way beyond guilt, questioning or feeling bad. It reaches a point where I pulled my head out of the clouds, rolled my eyes at the poetry, and got rational.

Well, no, I wasn't really comparing sex drive to dmt, just making comments about sex drive.

I don't know what beliefs or expectations you had of dmt, but from the sounds of it, you had some pretty high and strange expectations. I don't think that people here "don't want to hear" the things you are saying about dmt. It just seems you've abandoned one belief system for another and are calling it truth, that's all. I just question that type of logic. It's fine if you don't want to do dmt, it can be a nightmare. Who wants that? But there you were, apparently thinking that dmt is something special. Then, all of a sudden, you realize the REAL truth. DMT is an illusion and your mind is playing abnormal psychology tricks on you. That's the real truth. I just noticed that at one point you were talking about enlightenment, then all of sudden dmt is the illusion and you've figured it all out. You've switched sides. Again, that's fine, there's no point in doing anything if you're not getting anything out of it. Do people understand what I'm trying to say here? The opposite end of the two sided coin thing?

 

[jamie]

The fact that you think it is mystery elevates it to a status above, say sugar or vodka. We don't think they are mysteries that hide some other world or link us to realities outside of ourselves.

Isn't that a bit of an irrational over-generalization itself..the desire to compress things all into one single little category like that?..things that are are vastly different in accordace to the subjective effects they have on a human?..

You cant do that can call that rational..thats not rational at all since you have decided to look away from the subjective effects of one thing, in order to find a stronger bond between it and another thing like sugar, and then try to argue away that they are simply the same...

vokdca and sugar have understood actions in the brain..neurologists know exactly wats going on..there is nothing ambiguous about it..DMT is simply NOT that way.. We dont know exactky whats going on with the subjective experience of DMT as it becomes active in the human brain. Sorry this is NOT my personal projection its just FACT. There is a difference. The subjective experience of DMT IS still a mystery..weather or not you want to accept that doesnt change that FACT.