Feeling like I'm doing something objectively "Wrong"

[Azrael11000]

Hey all, I've experienced breakthrough twice now and I'm looking for a little help. Each time I break through, the entire universe seems to expand in all directions and I start to feel myself fold into the landscape. It's not a frightening experience at first but it suddenly changes and I start to feel like I'm in a sort of cosmic mental institution for having violated some sort of universal rule. I get overwhelmed by fear, my ego dissolves and my memory disappears. I've tried surrendering to the fear but it seems like it is deeply rooted somewhere in my psyche. The experiences are nothing short of mind blowing and wonderful but I can't seem to shake the feeling that I shouldn't be doing this. Is this normal? Do I just keep blasting off until I become comfortable with it?

 

[anrchy]

When i get strong feelings of something being wrong I try and contemplate about it while in. Sometimes images followed helping me to figure out what it's about. Also I found for me personally atleast, not surrendering to fear but rather pushing it aside as if it in unimportant gets me past the hurdle. This has also worked for experiences with negative entities. This is my personal experience and may not have any bearing on yours whatsoever.

 

[Azrael11000]

Thanks! It seems like by trying to surrender to the fear, I may be giving the fear a little too much weight and allowing it to overwhelm me. I'll try brushing it to the side next time I go for a breakthrough. I'm devoting today to repeated sub-breakthrough doses to try to get more comfortable with the body load too as I think that it may be contributing to the fear. I'll try to contemplate what's causing but I don't know how useful it'll be as the fear tends to come right before complete ego death so I don't know if I'll be able to focus long enough to formalize the intention to do so.

 

[anrchy]

Have you tried lower non breakthrough doses?

I can only speak for myself as everybody is different, but I don't see anything that helps with getting used to the body load but time. And even then I don't really feel used to it. It's overwhelming and that just seems to be part if the experience. It could be the pre dose anxiety creeping in and doing it. It could be something internal. It could be a million things.

If you haven't had much experience with lower doses then something I used to do that helped a little was dose smaller first to break the ice then go bigger 20 minutes to an hour later. Experiment with different size doses you may be taking more than you should at this moment.

I feel that it takes time for our ape brain to learn to decide the matrix, so time is your friend and in my opinion don't over indulge.

 

[Botanical Bliss]

...feel like I'm in a sort of cosmic mental institution for having violated some sort of universal rule. I get overwhelmed by fear, my ego dissolves and my memory disappears. I've tried surrendering to the fear but it seems like it is deeply rooted somewhere in my psyche.

There you go.... "deeply rooted somewhere in my psyche." Think about it and meditate on it. As far as the feeling of being in a cosmic mental institution for having violated some sort of universal rule..... have you done anything in your life that you may regret? Something that has hurt someone else? Yourself? Dig deep and try to find what's holding you back. The fear is the messenger... now good luck interpreting it and finding what it means. I (assuming here) think it may be something from your past, but only you can know

 

[Azrael11000]

That's exactly what I'm working on now. I've decided to forgo breaking through for a while so that I can give both my body and mind some time to get used to just how weird DMT is. I'm consistently able to put myself into the "waiting room" just by stopping inhalation right as I feel my mind starting to stretch and I think spending some time there may be what I need to lessen the anxiety to a more manageable level. My milligram scale is broken at the moment sadly so I've been playing it by feel. Probably not the best way for break through experiences though so I'm sticking to sub breakthrough doses for now until I get it fixed and can experiment in a more controlled fashion. Interestingly enough, even without breaking through, I'm experiencing brief entity contact with beings that seem very related to Salvia entities I've met in the past. I seem to be able to actually see them on lower doses whereas on higher doses I just know in my gut that they are there. Thanks much for your guidance, I was beginning to worry that I might not actually be able to enjoy spice but you've reassured me that, in time, things will get more manageable

Edit:
I've certainly got some things in my past which I am not proud of, things which I thought I had worked through with some extremely high doses of LSD. Interestingly enough, the high doses of LSD also made me feel like I was banished to a cosmic loony bin. Maybe I need to take a look at these things while sober more thoroughly and find out why they still haunt me even though I consciously feel like I have paid my penance and moved on from them. Thanks for the insight.

 

[○]

The moments leading up to the first toke are very akin to going up a massive hill on a rollercoaster or looking out of the plane door on a sky dive. You just have to light it and go. You never really get completely use to the initial part of the experience or even the experience as a whole, especially the bodyload.

Trust me when I say the vibratory bodyload that courses through you can always become more intense. I remember one experience where the bodyload just kept building and building in intensity. I thought any second I was going to pop at the seams. I remember being telepathically conveyed by various entities "you think this is intense....watch this!!". The experience intensified literally a millionfold to the point where I just lost the need/desire to care. I remember just thinking "ohh well, just smile and love". As I thought the thought, the millionfold bodyload ceased completely and I was bathed in this intense ecstasy. Like jumping in a hottub full of orgasmic fluid folding and coursing through my entire being.

At some point, you just got to smile and say "ohh well, i surrender". :d

hope my account was helpful

much love,
tat

 

[anrchy]

Tat put it perfectly.

The looney bin thing I can kind of relate too. I've had a couple experiences that made it difficult to put it out of my head that I was messing up my brain. Even though I know this to be untrue the experience felt so real that while I was in and trying to contemplate the whole thing it persisted. My last real dose was too big and I exited hyperspace early. Which left me with the most intense OEV's I couldn't imagine even today. During this episode I was convinced many hours had passed and I thought I fried my brain. This is still something I'm dealing with and has hindered my ability to fully dose, that and integration time, but for me it boils down to my inability to handle such a mentally intense situation with now stronger fear of losing control of my brain.

I don't know if you have any fears like that but psychedelics can def make you feel like you've gone insane especially during a bad mushroom trip. How am I coping with it? My plan is low dose DMT when I'm ready coupled with verbal reinforcement by telling myself consistently whenever the fear pops up that ill be fine and the trip is temporary. For me psychedelics have shown me many things, especially what my strongest fears are.

 

[skylarkey]

I've been dealing with the same issues so I'm just taking it slow. Just waiting for those days where I wake up really excited to explore hyperspace. Regardless in my last few pre breakthrough doses I find myself justifying why I took the dose out loud while in the middle of the trip after the intense come up. I get that feeling of "you shouldn't be seeing this" or "why would you do this arn't you grateful for the world you live in where everything makes sense?"

But then I remind myself, vocally, that this is my life, im only here for a short while, why not experience everything I can. Then im enjoying it again and the next thing I know i'm sober and stoked and in awe of what I saw. Vocalizations help durring trips. I don't know why but remembering that might help. Otherwise just go at your own pase.

 

[Azrael11000]

Very well said Tat, I somehow doubt that blast off will ever feel "normal" and, if it does, I might have some bigger issues I do the verbal reinforcement thing too, even without knowing it apparently. My room mate came home as I was out cold on the couch last time and told me that I was muttering the litany against fear from dune over and over again. I'm pretty experienced with traditional psychs and I know about the whole "never coming back" thought loop all too well but with DMT it just sort of overwhelms me even though I'm telling myself as it happens that I'm on a drug and it won't last forever. Only other time I've felt that way is on 30 tabs of primo LSD and, in retrospect, I ended up in a variation of hyperspace on that occasion. I think it may just take some time to get used to the fact that something so deep exists out there. I love how the universe just gets so huge but at the same time it scares me a bit. I wanna get back into shrooms a bit cause I've had the world expand in the same way but it felt much more comfortable. Sorry for the slightly disjointed rambling. My brain is still a little mushy from the last breakthrough (last night)

 

[anrchy]

Ya DMT really does take you that one leap farther then other psychs.

Have you used music during a DMT trip? That can help set the mood. For me often times certain songs that inspire certain emotions amplify that while on DMT. Maybe something to try if you haven't.

 

[Azrael11000]

I've heard conflicting reports about music and the spice so I haven't tried it yet. I probably should since I live right next to highway and the constant swell of cars can get a bit annoying while in that head space. Any suggestions on good music to fly with?

 

[anrchy]

I've heard conflicting reports about music and the spice so I haven't tried it yet. I probably should since I live right next to highway and the constant swell of cars can get a bit annoying while in that head space. Any suggestions on good music to fly with?

well it depends on what your taste in music is. I can tell you that if you find that music is not your forte another thing that i find that works is a fan that gets loud enough to drown out any other sounds that exists, atleast loud enough to break it up. I have a leaky toilet that would become extremely loud as soon as everything hit. Was very distracting. So maybe try that first.

I highly recommend trying music atleast. At first I was put off but now I almost never go in without it. Whatever your style of music, i recommend soft(er) smooth soothing styles. I personally enjoy the more electronic styles. Bluetech, shulman, and certain dubstep songs that i dont really consider dubstep have been my main ingredient. Your also going to want to either choose songs that last longer than 5 minutes or have a playlist so multiple songs play without interruption automatically. Stray away from pandora and the like as they insert commercials in between songs every now and then if you arent paying for a subscription.

I don't mind/notice the gaps between songs so its a non issue for me using shorter songs. I'll give you a few examples of what I use but if you let me know your fav music types I may be of further assistance.

Shulman - The unexpected visitor

Here's a nice long mix that you can just play and let go...
Entheogenic

For shorter stuff I use(in succession):
Vexare - rattlesnakes
Vexare - Polar
Deadmau5 - ghosts n stuff - nero remix

I also have used this --> Bhagavad Gita - sung in Sanskrit. Def one of my favs but some people dont get it. So I'll just leave it at that. I hope you get the same response as I did using music, it brought out the emotional aspect much stronger than I was getting without. Simply amazing IMO.

After you experiment a little you can use more crushing/energetic music like the vexare stuff. Some people dont like using as jumpy and intense of music. Some people listen to heavy metal or hip hop. Not my alley but to each their own. Personally think that certain kinds of music arent for that but thats just me. Either way try those out sober and report back if any of those even seem interesting to you. I have more but I would need to dig so this should get you started and if you want I can post more.

If it sparks up good deep emotion and isnt something to headbang and scream to its probably safe.

 

[Azrael11000]

That Shulman track is absolutely amazing! I'm actually a producer trying (mostly unsuccessfully) to make music in the vein of Shpongle but harder so these tracks are right up my ally. I wanna listen to one of my own tracks at some point while tripping but I'm super critical of my work sober so I want to get more comfortable with my own tunes as well as hyperspace before even thinking about trying that. Thanks for all the help. I'm feeling a lot less rattled now. I'm so glad this site exists or I'd be freaking out with no body to talk with about these experiences.

 

[anrchy]

hehe likewise my friend. Glad you liked it.

im not a sphongle fan but you could use that too.

Using music helps calm the nerves before going in as well.

 

[Azrael11000]

Go see him live and see what you think I had a head full of lucy and and someone was screaming about how they were pumping DMT into the venue. It's what got me to take the plunge after much deliberation and I must say the person screaming was right. I must say though, the music on its own has been becoming less meaningful to me since I've found the likes of Random Rab and Blue Tech. I'm a bit concerned that those artists might be a bit too weird when combined with the DMT experience's weirdness so the Shulman track is absolutely perfect. It's certainly psychedelic but in a much more calming way. I may dive into the Vexere after a bit more experience cause those wubs are definitely getting me moving in a good way.

 

[Global]

I've had somewhat similar sentiments from even the grandest experiences. In my white light experiences, I've experienced what I estimate to be something like 10x the peak amount of pleasure and euphoria that a human being is typically able to experience in their lifetime. Most wouldn't even dare think or be capable of imagining that one can experience so much joy at once - even with access to most of the other decadent euphoria-inducing drugs out there. It's just on such a completely different level that it feels like "humans shouldn't be able to feel this happy". I feel like I'm cheating and beating the system on some level (and just getting sucked back in on another I'm sure).

These experiences can be so far removed from those of consensual reality with such odd kinds of new perceptions and exaggerated and mixed old ones that it's no wonder we feel like we're doing something "wrong" every now and then, and I wager that its global illicit status probably doesn't help.

In terms of being "objectively wrong" I don't think that's something you need to worry about. These judgements of whether the subjective experience you're having is right or wrong isn't really much of an objective thing anyway.

 

[anrchy]

I think a lot of my anxiety I get when stoned or about to eat mushrooms relate to the objective census that drugs are bad. Although if you look at the facts thts actually a subjective viewpoint and most if not all of it is actually subjective and wrong. So then in turn to you it creates a subjectively wrong scenario due to the fact we are often influenced by others subjective views.

This is been somewhat of a battle in my own head for me as I have many stray thoughts from time to time that have no basis on facts but are just based on social conditioning. I've dosed my own DMT a handful of times where the experience had induced a fear in me that something isn't right with my DMT. This was based on the fact I have no previous experience with chemistry and fear what I don't know from time to time. I have no idea if there is a chemical in my naphtha that migrated into my DMT that didn't show itself during my dry evap test of clean naphtha. Could there be something in my DMT? OMG could it hurt me? Wait I think my DMT smells different, oh no it must be true!

As it snowballs it becomes harder to disbelieve. Fear stacks like that sometimes. When I look at the facts I can disprove it but somewhere In the back of my head I still feel the possibility and it sometimes scares me. Now, I know it's untrue and I'm really not worried. It just makes it difficult sometimes because as soon as I inhale stray thoughts like that try to jump in to my thoughts right before I go and if they do its more difficult to push them aside. I feel that DMT can sometimes make things seem real that aren't. I've seen this on the forum before with those new to DMT believing they have all the answers now and have to tell us so we know too.

DMT has shown me my fears and allowed me to understand how they operate I believe. Most of the work is done while sober though.