Feeling uptight in social experience

[Infectedlsd]

So ya, I have this thing, where I feel very uptight in the presence of other people. Thus I avoid it. I'm kinda calm usually when I start envisioning being around people. But when it gets to it, I get so uptight and lose my cool.

Anyone here have some useful tips for me? I could use some. lol.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

So ya, I have this thing, where I feel very uptight in the presence of other people. Thus I avoid it. I'm kinda calm usually when I start envisioning being around people. But when it gets to it, I get so uptight and lose my cool.

Anyone here have some useful tips for me? I could use some. lol.

I really can't relate to your motivations or feelings on the matter, but may have some insight:

Perhaps just don't worry about it. Just Be yourself and screw what anybody has to think or say about.

Personally, I avoid people as much as possible, but it's not due to social anxiety or being uptight, it has to do with me genuinely not liking social interaction with most people...I have a few close friends, my family, and spme professional and educational associates, but other than that I dont associate with anybody...however it's for far different reasons than yourself.

“Admit it. You aren’t like them. You’re not even close. You may occasionally dress yourself up as one of them, watch the same mindless television shows as they do, maybe even eat the same fast food sometimes. But it seems that the more you try to fit in, the more you feel like an outsider, watching the “normal people” as they go about their automatic existences. For every time you say club passwords like “Have a nice day” and “Weather’s awful today, eh?”, you yearn inside to say forbidden things like “Tell me something that makes you cry” or “What do you think deja vu is for?”. Face it, you even want to talk to that girl in the elevator. But what if that girl in the elevator (and the balding man who walks past your cubicle at work) are thinking the same thing? Who knows what you might learn from taking a chance on conversation with a stranger? Everyone carries a piece of the puzzle. Nobody comes into your life by mere coincidence. Trust your instincts. Do the unexpected. Find the others… -Tim Leary

-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

It is better to be alone than to be with those who will hinder your progress

“If you cannot find a good companion to walk with, walk alone, like an elephant roaming the jungle. It is better to be alone than to be with those who will hinder your progress.”

This quote is from the scriptures, although it’s a little truncated. Ideally omissions from quotes should be marked by ellipses, but that hasn’t happened in this case:

“If you cannot find a good companion to walk with, walk alone, like an elephant roaming the jungle. It is better to be alone than to be with those who will hinder your progress.”

As soon as I saw it I was reminded of a verse from the Dhammapada, and my instincts turned out to be right.

However, it’s not exactly a quote, but an adaptation of two Dhammapada verses:

329. If for company you cannot find a wise and prudent friend who leads a good life, then, like a king who leaves behind a conquered kingdom, or like a lone elephant in the elephant forest, you should go your way alone.

330. Better it is to live alone; there is no fellowship with a fool. Live alone and do no evil; be carefree like an elephant in the elephant forest.

“If you cannot find a good companion to walk with, walk alone, like an elephant roaming the jungle. It is better to be alone than to be with those who will hinder your progress.” – Fake Buddha Quotes

fakebuddhaquotes.com

If for company you cannot find a wise and prudent friend who leads a good life, then, like a king who leaves behind a conquered kingdom, or like a lone elephant in the elephant forest, you should go your way alone.

Better it is to live alone; there is no fellowship with a fool. Live alone and do no evil; be carefree like an elephant in the elephant forest.

-eg

 

[Infectedlsd]

Hey there. Whatsup E-G. You may say that you don't relate to my motivations but we obviously share the same feelings about most people. You're quotes prove that we share some feelings.

To be honest, my avoidance of social experience has gotten more extreme. But that's not what I came here to talk about. I'm talking about smaller situations. Like waiting with a stranger on the bus.. I just think I need some attitude change here.

The biggest problem I face is
I kinda dread going to school because I tend to fear that people will not like to be around me. And I don't blame them. It's not fun for me either when I'm feeling stressed out. Then I feel stressed out about being stressed out y'know.

But I just don't know what to do with most people. How to talk to them. What to talk to them about. I'd introduce them to psychedelics but that's hardly a conversation to have with a stranger.

I've accepted that I may very well be on a lonely road. And that's fine by me. But I really need some social lubricant to comfort social conventions where you're forced to interact with people. Cause I know Ill have to face them.

I'm kind of in awe and in jealousy for people who seem to be able to talk to each other like there's no end to it. While I'm avoiding talking to most people until I can get out of this place and live a quiet life.

Eh

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I'm pretty similar too. Groups of people in social situations general freak me out a bit. Although when I'm in the mood I enjoy waiting for that look on a person's face that is as though they've just seen a cuckoo pop out of my head, cuckoo-clock-style

I've got to the age where I really don't care any more.

eg, I like the quote. I have recently left behind a bunch of people whom I can clearly see for the hindrance they were. This reassures me (my family are also beyond common value )

 

[universecannon]

Yoga, exercise, meditation, healthy food, reduce junk food, lots of water, books, herbal teas, sunlight, time in nature art/dance/music/some creative outlet... put yourself out there

These sorts of things mostly cured my social anxiety

Cannabis can help some, but hinder others, and it can change over time depending on the person and how they use it...complex plant that one!

Harmalas and melatonin help me a ton too, but be careful not to mix mdma or ssris into your life with harmalas, as it is quite dangerous

Mdma on its own though has helped many with this sort of thing, and psychedelics as well...although they are more risky since without ample prep (i.e. things i listed first) and attention to set/setting it might increase anxiety.

 

[Seagull]

Hey there. Whatsup E-G. You may say that you don't relate to my motivations but we obviously share the same feelings about most people. You're quotes prove that we share some feelings.

To be honest, my avoidance of social experience has gotten more extreme. But that's not what I came here to talk about. I'm talking about smaller situations. Like waiting with a stranger on the bus.. I just think I need some attitude change here.

The biggest problem I face is
I kinda dread going to school because I tend to fear that people will not like to be around me. And I don't blame them. It's not fun for me either when I'm feeling stressed out. Then I feel stressed out about being stressed out y'know.

But I just don't know what to do with most people. How to talk to them. What to talk to them about. I'd introduce them to psychedelics but that's hardly a conversation to have with a stranger.

I've accepted that I may very well be on a lonely road. And that's fine by me. But I really need some social lubricant to comfort social conventions where you're forced to interact with people. Cause I know Ill have to face them.

I'm kind of in awe and in jealousy for people who seem to be able to talk to each other like there's no end to it. While I'm avoiding talking to most people until I can get out of this place and live a quiet life.

Eh

Make changes by getting used to the situation. I got over this fear by aproaching strangers and just simply have a talk. Whenever i feel the need to know something about the city or have a chat i would go up to some one, greet them exchange a word or 2 and leave it be.
When 2 people with same intrest find each other, conversation naturally grows.

You say that now, that u are jely and envy other people. The core problem i had, is i wanted to Feel accepted. And perhaps i never will. But i learned to accept myself, control my emotions & thoughts .
In time i wil grow.

Succes is not defined by howmuch you talk, Rather Quality Talks.

 

[null24]

I've been shy, introverted, full of social anxiety, misanthropic, whatever you want to call it entire life.

I've always craved social interaction with like minded people though, and that presents challenges. When i was younger, there were times it overwhelmed me completely. I've always found it hard to connect with people in a meaningful level, and it's not entirely due to my social ineptitude. A lot of people are bores, frankly.

It can be a monumental effort just to respond to someone. Sometimes i find i just have to 'power through it' and just try to stifle all the negative self talk when I'm trying to engage that rare person in real dialogue. In reality, they aren't thinking about the zit on my nose, they are into the conversation, or possibly worrying about the zit on their forehead.

I don't know if you relate at all to that, if it makes sense or is of any value to you. I've found that for all my talk of being a loner, that only turns into isolation and I'm a social animal deep down.

I'm just most comfortable with my pack, and i wander like a lone wolf looking for them.

Peace to you, friend.

 

[Infectedlsd]

Thank you for all your human and kind responses. I didn't expect to see much reponse. To be honest your life experience that you share acts as support and makes me feel less alone. :')

I'm pretty similar too. Groups of people in social situations general freak me out a bit. Although when I'm in the mood I enjoy waiting for that look on a person's face that is as though they've just seen a cuckoo pop out of my head, cuckoo-clock-style

Hehe, I thought about ur cuckoo today. Hehe. I think I might start to enjoy this too sometime.

-
I had more responses to everyone, but i deleted them as they seemed rather dull response. I hope this post will suffice anyway. If not, sorry.

@Uc

I've been meaning to ask you guys about mdma for therapeutic effect at home. If anyone has such experience with it I am glad to hear stories.

What I am probably going to try is GH and Testosteron to help me facillitate social capability, confidence and self-worth. Even though these drugs are mostly used for surface muscle growth. I think to see a confidence and brain-growing factor in people who use it regularly. This is what I'm hoping to achieve in combination with a healthy lifestyle, yoga and fresh fruit.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Hey there. Whatsup E-G. You may say that you don't relate to my motivations but we obviously share the same feelings about most people. You're quotes prove that we share some feelings.

To be honest, my avoidance of social experience has gotten more extreme. But that's not what I came here to talk about. I'm talking about smaller situations. Like waiting with a stranger on the bus.. I just think I need some attitude change here.

The biggest problem I face is
I kinda dread going to school because I tend to fear that people will not like to be around me. And I don't blame them. It's not fun for me either when I'm feeling stressed out. Then I feel stressed out about being stressed out y'know.

But I just don't know what to do with most people. How to talk to them. What to talk to them about. I'd introduce them to psychedelics but that's hardly a conversation to have with a stranger.

I've accepted that I may very well be on a lonely road. And that's fine by me. But I really need some social lubricant to comfort social conventions where you're forced to interact with people. Cause I know Ill have to face them.

I'm kind of in awe and in jealousy for people who seem to be able to talk to each other like there's no end to it. While I'm avoiding talking to most people until I can get out of this place and live a quiet life.

Eh

I've never considered if people wanted to be around me or not, because the fact of the matter is that I would rather not be around them, I can easily talk with others and be quite social, specially with strangers, I just honestly don't like to do so, I actually have go out of my way to keep people from talking with me, and they never leave me alone.

I always have head-phones in with loud music playing, with a notebook on my lap and a research book open at my side, I make it quite a hassle for people to get my attention, they have to actually tap me on the shoulder, interrupt me from my notebook work, and then directly present whatever it was that was so important that they had to get my attention in such a way. I constantly maintain the body language that I want to get back back to my work and don't have time to be bothered...and people still bother me! strangers even, they will go that far out of their way just for some senseless small talk, and the thing is, I'm not polite, I'm often quite grumpy. if someone insists on having a conversation I instantly go into technical organic chemistry, full of long chemical names and technical procedures, I try to make it a nightmare to listen to, this causes people to "tune-out", resulting in them losing interest and trying to exit the social interaction as fast as possible...

The problem is, when you make it obvious that you want to be alone, it triggers something in people psychologically which makes them follow you and try to get your attention, there are a good deal of people who have enough free time to follow me around and try to get my attention on a constant basis, and I'm constantly ignoring them.

Most people are impossible to relate with, while my interests involve tryptamine research, organic chemistry, entheogens, history, philosophy, etc... theirs involve sports television and cable sitcoms, sports-cars and buying the newest set of trend fashion, I could keep going on but you get the idea, it's hard to want to be around people who whole-heartedly buy into a culture that I want nothing to do with...

You figure these people would not want to be around me, and would just leave me alone, but that is not the case by any means, I must to to great lengths to get people to leave me alone, and to mind their own business and let me go about my day in peace.

This is why I don't think our situations relate, because you seem like a shy person with reasonable social anxieties, and I'm actually quite grumpy and assertive when it comes to these things, I have no issue simply moving as far away as possible from people I don't want to be around, and if they follow me, which they always do, I have no issues being vocal about my perceived intrusion of space, and make I it quite clear that I wish to be left to my business.

If for company you cannot find a wise and prudent friend who leads a good life, then, like a king who leaves behind a conquered kingdom, or like a lone elephant in the elephant forest, you should go your way alone.

Better it is to live alone; there is no fellowship with a fool. Live alone and do no evil; be carefree like an elephant in the elephant forest.

“If you cannot find a good companion to walk with, walk alone, like an elephant roaming the jungle. It is better to be alone than to be with those who will hinder your progress.” – Fake Buddha Quotes

fakebuddhaquotes.com

It's better to be alone than to be around liars, or thrives, or those who will use you or victimize you, it's better to be alone than to keep the company of sick people like child molesters or rapists, it's better to be alone than it is to be with people who will constantly bring trouble and negative situations into your life, it's better to be alone than to keep the company of fools, and on and on...

"it is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" - I can't remember the name of the person from which this quote originated and I apologize.

My advice is learn to become comfortable with yourself, don't concern yourself about others or what they may or may not be thinking about you, when you are comfortable with yourself interacting with others should come naturally.

There's nothing to be worrisome or anxious about, and I think the yoga, healthy diet and healthy lifestyle are great ideas, as for the drugs, not so much, I don't know what GH is, but if you can do it without that stuff than why bother? Well, if your doctor tells you it's a good idea listen to your doctor, if you have not talked to a doctor I would before trying hormones and "GH"...I'm sure there's better ways than hormones.

Try meditation, Buddhist philosophy is great, it opens one's eyes to the sources of suffering and offers simple and effective means for absolving it...

Healthy Diet and sleep, combined with a moral and positive lifestyle, can also do wonders or you, also be sure to only keep the company of good hearted people leading positive life's who will help further you in life and influence you in a positive way. When you have amazing people like this around you, strangers and other people, and caring what they think about you in general becomes irrelevant.

-eg

 

[null24]

. I actually have go out of my way to keep people from talking with me, and they never leave me alone.

I always have head-phones in with loud music playing, with a notebook on my lap and a research book open at my side, I make it quite a hassle for people to get my attention, they have to actually tap me on the shoulder, interrupt me from my notebook work, and then directly present whatever it was that was so important that they had to get my attention in such a way. I constantly maintain the body language that I want to get back back to my work and don't have time to be bothered...and people still bother me! strangers even, they will go that far out of their way just for some senseless small talk, and the thing is, I'm not polite, I'm often quite grumpy. if someone insists on having a conversation I instantly go into technical organic chemistry, full of long chemical names and technical procedures, I try to make it a nightmare to listen to, this causes people to "tune-out", resulting in them losing interest and trying to exit the social interaction as fast as possible...

Far be it from me to cast aspersions on one's lifestyle, but there may come a time when you look around yourself and find nobody there and realize that it's very uncomfortable, to say the least.

Shutting out the world because you think nobody is "on your level', which, correct me if I'm wrong, is what you actively do is a pretty high conceit.

I would only say this is i had been at one time very similar in attitude and action, and find it to be unhealthy to be in isolation for many reasons. One being that i began to believe my own bullshit with ferocity and the fears i had of others (because that's what it was) would often self manifest.

Perhaps your immune to the human need for social interaction and are of such intellect that nobody can touch your insight, but that is highly doubtful. Be good to you, and be careful, your path may lead you somewhere hard to get out of. Said, once again, from personal experience and legitimate concern.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

. I actually have go out of my way to keep people from talking with me, and they never leave me alone.

I always have head-phones in with loud music playing, with a notebook on my lap and a research book open at my side, I make it quite a hassle for people to get my attention, they have to actually tap me on the shoulder, interrupt me from my notebook work, and then directly present whatever it was that was so important that they had to get my attention in such a way. I constantly maintain the body language that I want to get back back to my work and don't have time to be bothered...and people still bother me! strangers even, they will go that far out of their way just for some senseless small talk, and the thing is, I'm not polite, I'm often quite grumpy. if someone insists on having a conversation I instantly go into technical organic chemistry, full of long chemical names and technical procedures, I try to make it a nightmare to listen to, this causes people to "tune-out", resulting in them losing interest and trying to exit the social interaction as fast as possible...

Far be it from me to cast aspersions on one's lifestyle, but there may come a time when you look around yourself and find nobody there and realize that it's very uncomfortable, to say the least.

Shutting out the world because you think nobody is "on your level', which, correct me if I'm wrong, is what you actively do is a pretty high conceit.

I would only say this is i had been at one time very similar in attitude and action, and find it to be unhealthy to be in isolation for many reasons. One being that i began to believe my own bullshit with ferocity and the fears i had of others (because that's what it was) would often self manifest.

Perhaps your immune to the human need for social interaction and are of such intellect that nobody can touch your insight, but that is highly doubtful. Be good to you, and be careful, your path may lead you somewhere hard to get out of. Said, once again, from personal experience and legitimate concern.

No no no, you misunderstand entirely.

It's not that I feel superior, or that people are not on my level, I literally can not relate with the majority of people out there, say I try to talk about Alexander shulgin or David E. Nichols or terence mckenna, they have no idea who any of these people are and most don't care, it makes relating difficult, then on the other side of that, I don't watch TV aside from the news, I don't care about sports, I don't listen to the music on the radio, I'm not interested in discussing the latest new line of products that's out for sell, I'm not interested in these things, nothing's against them, it's just personally not my thing.

It's not that I think I'm better than anyone, and you assume that I am somehow isolated, which is not the case, I have a loving family, and an amazing (but very small) group of good hearted, positive friends, I also interact with some people on an academic or professional level and in that setting, It's that aside from these people, I would rather be left alone. I'm not opposed to meeting new people, but I do make an effort to avoid those who would hinder my progress in life, I only want to be around positive, trustworthy people, who are good hearted, and who I can relate with on some level...and don't get me wrong, I enjoy my solitude, when I'm trying to study, or even if I'm just reading a book or typing on the nexus, I enjoy peace and solitude just as much as I enjoy the company of my friends and family, finding good balance is the key.

like I said, I'm always working in a notebook with an organic chemistry book in my lap and my head-phones blasting loud music, I enjoy the time that I have to study, and really have no interest in meeting new people, yet people will still bother me, they will follow me around, try to sit next to me, and will interrupt me when I'm working, and it's obvious that I want to be left to my business...now, if somebody said something that really interested me, or something that related to my work, I would probably be willing to talk with them, but taking and becoming friends are two different things, a person must prove they are trustworthy, honest, positive, and a good influence in life before you would want to have them as a friend.

(One day I would love to have a cabin up in the mountains, no neighbors for miles, just pure solitude and mother nature, my friends and family could come over or I could go see them, but I would have my isolated mountain refuge as a home...it's not impossible, it's just not in the near future)

It’s a weird paradox. It’s that the shamans, who are the keepers of the cultural values, are also necessarily the keepers of the secrets of the theatrics of the cultural values, and so they live their lives in the light of the knowledge that it all rests on showbiz. You know, everybody else is a true believer, but these are the image-makers, the people who actually pull the strings and control the evolution of the mythologies. And in a way, it’s a situation of alienation -terence McKenna

Even in traditional societies, the shaman is central to the social functioning, and the health, and so forth – but is never allowed to be physically central. There is a leader, a head man or something; the shaman lives off at the edge of the village, sometimes off in the woods; he is approached with fear and trembling; he is loathed and respected, and feared and loved, because it is understood that he represents a dimension that nevertheless must be tolerated, because it is the channel through which knowledge, and healing, and higher values, come. --terence mckenna


---


the shaman is socially marginal, politically marginal, lives at the edge of the village, and so forth and so on, and is feared by the people, because dealings with the shaman are always dealings about life and death. But then the shaman comes forward in this critical role, as go-between, as mediator, between the cultural mind and the real world, which is this potent set of forces and planetary cycles and meteorological events and diseases and, you know, fate; and the shaman mediates. In many languages, the word for shaman means “go-between”. So the cost of this, or the price of this, for the shaman himself, or herself, is a kind of alienation from the cultural values, and a kind of understanding that it’s a game that’s kept in play. -terence mckenna

Again, I'm not isolated by any means, I have a few close friend and my family, but otherwise I feel the "quote"* below accurate describes my view on the matter, I apologize for being redundant, and hope I'm not misunderstood:
*as is stated, it's actually a combination of two different quotes

“If you cannot find a good companion to walk with, walk alone, like an elephant roaming the jungle. It is better to be alone than to be with those who will hinder your progress.”

This quote is from the scriptures, although it’s a little truncated. Ideally omissions from quotes should be marked by ellipses, but that hasn’t happened in this case:

“If you cannot find a good companion to walk with, walk alone, like an elephant roaming the jungle. It is better to be alone than to be with those who will hinder your progress.”

As soon as I saw it I was reminded of a verse from the Dhammapada, and my instincts turned out to be right.

However, it’s not exactly a quote, but an adaptation of two Dhammapada verses:

329. If for company you cannot find a wise and prudent friend who leads a good life, then, like a king who leaves behind a conquered kingdom, or like a lone elephant in the elephant forest, you should go your way alone.

330. Better it is to live alone; there is no fellowship with a fool. Live alone and do no evil; be carefree like an elephant in the elephant forest.

https://www.anoniem.org/?http://fakebuddhaquotes.com/if-you-cannot-find-a-good-companion-to-walk-with-walk-alone-like-an-elephant-roaming-the-jungle-it-is-better-to-be-alone-than-to-be-with-those-who-will-hinder-your-progress/

-eg

 

[null24]

:thumb_up:
Reasonable.

 

[Infectedlsd]

@null24, Happy to see you chime in brother. You seem to be doing very well now. You're words are much appreciated just so you know.

@e-G. I think you are a marvelous person. The way you structure your life is about where I want to be. I can't right now because i'm doing the last stages of jailtime. A lot of the discomfort I experience is due to in part because I am limited in my freedom. I don't know (and and quite anxious about it) if this will persist when i'm outside for good.

To be honest I feel a lot better due to a lot of mental meditation. I practice self-control and try to maintain a steady base-line around people I have no relationship to. I belief anxiety is due to self-acceptance and things like that. A lot of people in jail judge you by what use you have to them. I don't really care about them so much. My only mission in life is to create a better world for everyone. Most people don't see it like that, they only see my dispositions and they try to poke at it. It took me a while to see through the charade. And find my own power in a sense of emptiness towards people. And openness. I do like to be around (healthy) individuals. But not so much so that they have to distract me from enjoying inner peace.

I hope you don't mind E-G that I poke around a little bit in ur words. You say you are sometimes grumpy. I recognize this sense of anger in my own experience. And realize for myself this is certainly not the way. Atleast it can't maintain this way. I find there is always a higher objective position in my situation and thus a higher ground for thinking to thrive.

But again, how you structure your life. Focusing your energy and a few beloved friends. Not being mingled or even giving a shit about anyone else's personal lifestyle. Just doing your thing. that's inspiring man.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

@null24, Happy to see you chime in brother. You seem to be doing very well now. You're words are much appreciated just so you know.

@e-G. I think you are a marvelous person. The way you structure your life is about where I want to be. I can't right now because i'm doing the last stages of jailtime. A lot of the discomfort I experience is due to in part because I am limited in my freedom. I don't know (and and quite anxious about it) if this will persist when i'm outside for good.

To be honest I feel a lot better due to a lot of mental meditation. I practice self-control and try to maintain a steady base-line around people I have no relationship to. I belief anxiety is due to self-acceptance and things like that. A lot of people in jail judge you by what use you have to them. I don't really care about them so much. My only mission in life is to create a better world for everyone. Most people don't see it like that, they only see my dispositions and they try to poke at it. It took me a while to see through the charade. And find my own power in a sense of emptiness towards people. And openness. I do like to be around (healthy) individuals. But not so much so that they have to distract me from enjoying inner peace.

I hope you don't mind E-G that I poke around a little bit in ur words. You say you are sometimes grumpy. I recognize this sense of anger in my own experience. And realize for myself this is certainly not the way. Atleast it can't maintain this way. I find there is always a higher objective position in my situation and thus a higher ground for thinking to thrive.

But again, how you structure your life. Focusing your energy and a few beloved friends. Not being mingled or even giving a shit about anyone else's personal lifestyle. Just doing your thing. that's inspiring man.

I'm glad you could derive some inspiration from my thoughts on this issue.

a shaman is someone who has seen the end, and therefore is a trickster, because you don't worry if you've seen the end. If you know how it comes out you go back and you take your place in the play, and you let it all roll on without anxiety. This is what boundary dissolution means. -terence McKenna

Part of the thing I found with hanging with shamans in various places and times is that once you get past the language barrier, what shamans are are simply curious people. Intellectuals of a certain type. In Australian aboriginal slang, a shaman is called a “clever fellow”. If someone says “I’m a clever fellow”, they mean, you know, I’m a shaman. Well, that’s all it is – it’s somebody who pays attention to how things actually work, and sort of transcends the culture by that means. It’s a weird paradox. It’s that the shamans, who are the keepers of the cultural values, are also necessarily the keepers of the secrets of the theatrics of the cultural values, and so they live their lives in the light of the knowledge that it all rests on showbiz. You know, everybody else is a true believer, but these are the image-makers, the people who actually pull the strings and control the evolution of the mythologies. And in a way, it’s a situation of alienation.

...

Even in traditional societies, the shaman is central to the social functioning, and the health, and so forth – but is never allowed to be physically central. There is a leader, a head man or something; the shaman lives off at the edge of the village, sometimes off in the woods; he is approached with fear and trembling; he is loathed and respected, and feared and loved, because it is understood that he represents a dimension that nevertheless must be tolerated, because it is the channel through which knowledge, and healing, and higher values, come. -terence mckenna

...

the shaman is socially marginal, politically marginal, lives at the edge of the village, and so forth and so on, and is feared by the people, because dealings with the shaman are always dealings about life and death. But then the shaman comes forward in this critical role, as go-between, as mediator, between the cultural mind and the real world, which is this potent set of forces and planetary cycles and meteorological events and diseases and, you know, fate; and the shaman mediates. In many languages, the word for shaman means “go-between”. So the cost of this, or the price of this, for the shaman himself, or herself, is a kind of alienation from the cultural values, and a kind of understanding that it’s a game that’s kept in play.

-terence mckenna

...he is loathed and respected, and feared and loved...

-TM

I feel I fit this role that McKenna is describing for the shaman in the excerpts above.

It's not necessarily easy, but I'm comfortable with myself, with my existance, and I am happy.

-eg

 

[Infectedlsd]

Of all the quotes you've written today this one must be the most inspiring to me ! 8)

To quote ur quote

“I’m a clever fellow”, they mean, you know, I’m a shaman. Well, that’s all it is – it’s somebody who pays attention to how things actually work, and sort of transcends the culture by that means.

Man i'd love to be a shaman.
This line gets me. I am (just now) starting to dabble in Magic. Chaos magic actually. Ooh and I remember the Symbol you have given me on my account Infectedstyle's post "Healing open wounds".

And I realized that Magic is just paying attention to how things work. How certain thoughts attract things and basically how thought create dreams etc.

I suppose the symbol, you know the arrows with the barbed wires you sent me presupposes a certain wiring and/or direction that this magic is headed. Weird how it is that this symbol you sent me earlier ticked my mind into magic.

I can only really do magic though even tho I used it only once when you are completely free. In nature. That sounds like the most fertile environment for magic to occur.

I bit off-topic but hope you don't mind.

I feel I fit this role that McKenna is describing for the shaman in the excerpts above.

It's not necessarily easy, but I'm comfortable with myself, with my existance, and I am happy.

-eg

Yes. I love that you do feel this way too.

I am not happy with myself. At least not entirely. But I am learning. I love the process. The shaman sounds perfectly comfortable and thus in a position to rise above people. I am not on this level. But then again I do think we are students together. But to be that we must ofcourse first transcent politics who presupposes a teacher position most of the time. And we are all colleagues in life. Love between colleagues is a universal code I think. But first I must stop fearing my colleagues.

And I hope you didn't feel attacked in this thread. Me and null did give you a bit of heat after sharing your personal experience. Which is sometimes not a good thing. Hope you didn't see my post like that.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

I never feel attacked or offended, it's actually near impossible to rattle my psychological or emotional stability...

Buddhism as a philosophy may be able to really help you out, some simple shifts in perspective can make the difference between true comfort and happiness and suffering, Buddhism is full of great "hidden knowledge", which is not called "hidden" because someone is intentionally trying to hide something from you, but because it's knowledge that you probably would have never noticed or found had it not been pointed out to you.

As far as shamanism goes This thread is full of some really great quotes and excerpts.

I am not a healer, I don't advertise or offer any shamanic services, but I am very similar to the archetypal shaman in every other way, some have deep understandings of "the way things work" and can not be manipulated or exploited by cultural values, and have a deep understanding of and a high affinity for consciousness exploration as well as abstract and philosophical thought process, a shaman must also have keen intellect and a good "nonsense detector"

It is no great accomplishment to hear a voice in the head. The accomplishment is to make sure it is telling the truth, because the demons are of many kinds: "Some are made of ions, some of mind; the ones of ketamine, you'll find, stutter often and are blind." The reaction to these voices is not to kneel in genuflection before a god, because then one will be like Dorothy in her first encounter with Oz. There is no dignity in the universe unless we meet these things on our feet, and that means having an I/Thou relationship. One say to the Other: "You say you are omniscient, omnipresent, or you say you are from Zeta Reticuli. You're long on talk, but what can you show me?" Magicians, people who invoke these things, have always understood that one must go into such encounters with one's wits about oneself. -TM

So it's completely accurate, and closer to my definition of a "shaman" when terence said "shamans are are simply curious people. Intellectuals of a certain type."

Even in traditional societies, the shaman is central to the social functioning, and the health, and so forth – but is never allowed to be physically central. There is a leader, a head man or something; the shaman lives off at the edge of the village, sometimes off in the woods; he is approached with fear and trembling; he is loathed and respected, and feared and loved, because it is understood that he represents a dimension that nevertheless must be tolerated, because it is the channel through which knowledge, and healing, and higher values, come. -terence mckenna

Terence McKenna — 'The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself -TM

Shamanic abilities are generally brought on by a personal crisis, such as illness or sudden shock. Where this is not naturally forthcoming, initiations designed to produce the effects of such a state are used to bring about re-birth as a shaman. The shaman sees through everything, dies and is reborn, suffers the pangs of the world, and sees into its darkest corners. The near-death of initiation is common to shamans the world over and a metaphor for their experiences. Afterwards, they are never the same; everything has changed for them. They have known total knowledge and, to a degree according to their skills and strengths, have permanent access to it from that moment on.
( -shamanism bible )

*note: the dose range in this report is highly inflated, there is no reason to ever dose this high*

the first time I used N,N-dimethyltryptamine I smoked 200mgs of translucent yellow crystals on top of a small amount of high-grade cannabis, I consumed it in a single inhalation. I held the hit in less than 5 seconds when the rush began, "I don't believe it!" I kept repeating in my head, "this is impossible".... my surroundings began to quiver and slither apart, faster than anything I had ever seen everything began moving away from everything else in a mash of brilliant color geometric form, and speed, before fully shattering the "reality" in my visual and mental field, it came on like a freight train, I remember thinking "oh fuck! Get this stuff out of me!" And frantically trying to exhale. It was pure terror, I thought "now you have done it! You killed yourself!" After brief mourning at the life I had just departed from I began to pay attention to the present, I remember feeling like I was at the bottom of a foggy mountain with dirt roads, the clouds felt like a domed ceiling, everything was wet, misty, cloudy and rainy, I was overcome with an intense feeling of panic and deja-vu, I felt like a lost child, everything I knew about who I was or my life or earth seemed like a distant dream, like I dissolved out of existence, I interpreted this as dying, I knew that I was dead, and I was emotionally overwhelmed while confronting the event of my death, just like sand slipping through finger cracks I tried to hold onto this all as my entire identity as a human was dissolved, I remembered my name, the earth, my family, who I was, being a human, and life, but like grabbing at smoke, it was futile, all of this slipped away and nearly faded entirely out of my memory, impossible to cling to all this, I had to let it go...I kept thinking "what the fuck was life?" ...I could not tell if I was breathing or not, I would take air in, but couldn't feel it, I began taking in panicked deep breaths, thinking that none of the oxygen was entering my system, then noticed a pain in my chest, a giant mantis like being had its claws in my chest! It proceeded to tear open my chest and stomach removing all my organs and insides, I was about to go into shock when I saw a bright green light flash over my shoulder, it nearly hit me, it then became a beautiful fractal-geometric object, morphing and color changing, at times it was metallic at other times it was a beautiful jewel, and all the while to look into it was to view endless geometric fractal patterns, moving, morphing, and changing color. The mantis then put this object in my torn up body, he began to make billions of these objects, each one unique and radiating beautiful colored light, and the mantoid filled my body with them, billions of them, becoming small as atoms to construct the new insides of my mangled corpse, then I was sealed up and propelled into an orange light where I was resurrected, my conscious-being (soul) was becoming reunited with the physical world ...then I felt as if I was being pushed head first through a thick gelatinous membrane, violent gesticulations of the membrane surrounding me were forcing me through this thing...I was being born...slowly I began to recognize my surroundings, my face still covered in tears, I looked up and saw the branches of a tree in the yard all slither in sinister fashion in from all directions to take place and solidify as the tree in the distance, the world began to slither back into place, most things moved in an elegant liquid serpentine slithering motion, or like the dancing movements of a flame, as the world constructed itself back into the familiar, so did my conscious state and memory, I was still disoriented, and fairly traumatized, I thought I had been gone for millennia, "how long was I gone I asked?"...."about 20 minutes" was the answer ....those who were there said in reality I curled up into a ball and began to cry for 20 minutes, I was wondering why my face was wet, because it felt like I had actually just been through being born, I was still covered in tears...any way the immense deep spiritual and psychological implications of this experience left me for ever transformed, reborn as a new person entirely, it was the single most meaningful thing that has ever happened to me, and changed me in many significant ways, all for the better.
-eg

When my shamanic initiation occured, it was inadvertently, I was not looking for transformation, or rebirth, or answers, or anything really, I was simply curious, but what I got was undeniable...

Above is the account of my "shamanic initiation", however, I realized most do not understand what a "shamanic initiation" actually is, hence the excerpts below, notice the obviouscsimilairties between the records of what "shamanic initiation" is compared to my first DMT event....

The actual initiation can be equally excruciating. Most initiations in most cultures involve a symbolic death and rebirth: the candidate 'dies' to his old identity and is reborn to a new one. Shamanic initiates often experience this resurrection in gruesome ways. When the rai (spirits) make a shaman in western australia, they take him to their home.
'There they cut him up and hang up his insides...his body is dead, but his soul remains there, and on the order of the rai to look steadily at the part hanging up, he recognizes [his organs]. His body is put over a hot earth-oven, with magic cooking stones in it, and covered with paper-bark. The perspiration streams down. The rai replace his insides and close up the flesh. He is told that he can henceforth travel in the air like a bird or under the ground like a goanna...
....
Stories of disembowelment, dismemberment, and reassembly ( usually with magic stones or crystals inserted into the shamans frame) are best understood in this light.

-Hidden Wisdom: A Guide to the Western Inner Traditions
By Richard Smoley, Jay Kinney; page 161

The initiation is understood as a process of death and rebirth: “first, torture at the hands of demons or spirits, who play the role of masters of initiation; second, ritual death, experienced by the patient as a descent to hill or an ascent to heaven; third, resurrection to a new mode of being – the mode of ‘consecrated man,’ that is, a man who can personally communicate with gods, demons and spirits. For initiatory death is always followed by a resurrection; that is, in terms of psychopathological experience, the crisis is resolved and the sickness cured. The shaman’s integration of a new personality is in large part dependent on his being cured

-Written by Mircea Eliade, the entry for Shamanism in vol. 19 of Man, Myth and Magic

In Shamanic cultures, the shaman plays a priest like role; however, there is an essential difference between the two, as Joseph Campbell describes:

The priest is the socially initiated, ceremonially inducted member of a recognized religious organization, where he holds a certain rank and functions as the tenant of an office that was held by others before him, while the shaman is one who, as a consequence of a personal psychological crisis, has gained a certain power of his own.
A shaman may be initiated via a serious illness, by being struck by lightning, or by a near-death experience (e.g. the shaman Black Elk), and there usually is a set of cultural imagery expected to be experienced during shamanic initiation regardless of method.

According to Mircea Eliade, such imagery often includes being transported to the spirit world and interacting with beings inhabiting it, meeting a spiritual guide, being devoured by some being and emerging transformed, and/or being "dismantled" and "reassembled" again, often with implanted amulets such as magical crystals. The imagery of initiation generally speaks of transformation and granting powers, and often entails themes of death and rebirth.

https://www.anoniem.org/?http://www.crystalinks.com/shamanism.html

-eg