Felt like I was dying and getting beaten up

[derms]

So, over the past few weeks i'd tried to 'breakthrough' with DMT but had only previously got to the 'lovely bright colours, strange evolving shapes' stage.

On advice I purchased a vapor genie and with a friend sat down last night.

Not wanting to 'undershoot' (thinking my inhale or technique might not be great), I loaded it up with circa 130mg - thinking I cant overdose, worst case I'd waste some of it...

On the 3rd large hit I felt like flopping back as i'd usually do before, but this time my friend helped to push it further and got me to take a 4th & 5th hit (on the 5th, I was so out of it I couldnt even hold the pipe or lighter properly.

After that 5th hit - BAM! It felt like was totally shot in the head. As I was passing out, I remember thinking:'Who am i ? Am i him (looking at my friend)?
I couldnt remember who I was and felt I'd been poisoned...

Upon flopping back and heart beat raised I recall going into this state where I was in a white cube- like room (with some rainbow like colours) and being violently thrown about as if beaten up by something.
Just felt like I was getting killed and felt like forever. It was very unpleasant and the most intense experience I have ever had.

Im not sure if this would be classed as 'ego death' or / and a 'bad trip' as I have not comparative.
All i know is that I got my ar*e handed to me on a plate and I felt utterly destroyed.
When I came back into the room (5 mins apparently) I was in utter shock (and still have to take a deep breath when I think about it a day after).

Looking back at it, it certainly felt like an ego death (although as I say, I have no comparison of sorts) and im not sure how it has helped me - or if its meant to help.
I think part of why it was so terrifying is that its the first time I have been in total loss of control in my life (e.g getting totally drunk and vomiting comes no where close to what I experienced here..). It owned me - period.

I cannot quite make up whether I had this bad trip because:
- my dose was too big?
- my ego was too big?
- the total loss of control and power of DMT was too much for me?
- or something else...?

What I do know now is that I have infinite more respect for the powder than I did before. And im not in any rush to take it again soon, despite previously being very eager to breakthrough (nb. I'd previously tried astral projection for a few years without much success)

Any thoughts would be much appreciated - thanks,

 

[TGO]

130mg in the VG for your first breakthrough? It is no wonder you got thrown around! That is a massive dose even seasoned DMT users wouldn't attempt!

DMT is humbling, as I'm sure you've learned, and must always be approached with caution and respect. The best thing to do now is to live your life, enjoy this reality. No one can really make sense of your experience for you and it may or may not come to you in time. I'd recommend searching through the forum for high dose experiences or the term "hyperslap" and reading through those threads. One time, I didn't weigh my dose of changa and got shaken up pretty good here:

Absolution (First Entity Contact)

If you do decide to go back, start with lower doses and then build your way up. It is a startling experience, one that is not easy to understand. In fact, none of us really have any answers, but searching for them together here can be an essential tool to integrating difficult journeys. Good luck with any future endeavors!

 

[derms]

130mg in the VG for your first breakthrough? It is no wonder you got thrown around! That is a massive dose even seasoned DMT users wouldn't attempt!

DMT is humbling, as I'm sure you've learned, and must always be approached with caution and respect. The best thing to do now is to live your life, enjoy this reality. No one can really make sense of your experience for you and it may or may not come to you in time. I'd recommend searching through the forum for high dose experiences or the term "hyperslap" and reading through those threads. One time, I didn't weigh my dose of changa and got shaken up pretty good here:

Absolution (First Entity Contact)

If you do decide to go back, start with lower doses and then build your way up. It is a startling experience, one that is not easy to understand. In fact, none of us really have any answers, but searching for them together here can be an essential tool to integrating difficult journeys. Good luck with any future endeavors!

Many thanks - from reading up on 'hyperslaps' I think it is an apt description.
Somewhat comforting to know Im not the only one to receive an utter pasting by this stuff.
I think its good feedback to start from a lower dose when the time comes to go back. For now, I need to recover. Thanks

 

[Mindlusion]

Yeah. That's a textbook hyperslap.

The title jumped out at me "Like i was dying and getting beaten up" and "Like I was getting killed forever"

I had something similar happen where it felt like I got shot in the head, tossed into a vacant parking lot, ableit an alien one, and having the complete and total crap knocked out of me without even the slightest hint of mercy. It was absolutely shocking. It took me an hour to calm down, though the entire experience was only 12 minutes. Longest 12 minutes of my life, ill tell you. I pegged it down to too much DMT in the bong, which obviously it was, but when it wants to have its way with you, it will.

That was my first negative experience, a big one, and all of my negative DMT experiences since then seem to carry that same feeling of terror, go back at least a little to that same place.

It owned me - period.

Yes, indeed.

What I find truly interesting about this. I have realized this same fact in the most blissful experiences, and in the most terrifying. As if it's the same thing, just that it is perceived as total love, or total fear.

In one scenario I'm curled up in a corner, begging it to stop. In another, im bowing down with absolute humility and gratitude...

I think this truly says a lot about our nature and the experience.

 

[tseuq]

I have realized this same fact in the most blissful experiences, and in the most terrifying. As if it's the same thing, just that it is perceived as total love, or total fear.

In one scenario I'm curled up in a corner, begging it to stop. In another, im bowing down with absolute humility and gratitude...

Same here, two sides of the same coin and both are "illusions", as they are interpretations of my mind.

tseuq

 

[derms]

I pegged it down to too much DMT in the bong, which obviously it was, but when it wants to have its way with you, it will.

It owned me - period.

Thanks for your input - That's the interesting thing - I had always (previously) read that DMT was unlike other 'drugs' in that you couldnt technically OD on it - i.e. it was knock you out before you could OD on it per se.
It seems you can OD on it but the effect is a kicking the mind/spirit (vs body).

Wonder if any one has had a large dose, say over 200mg, and had anything other than a total kicking?

 

[RabidLabMouse]

Wonder if any one has had a large dose, say over 200mg, and had anything other than a total kicking?

I did just over 200mg, vaporized, my first time with DMT because I like to throw myself into the deep end. I was able to do it thanks to having someone else hold the pipe and heat it for me, otherwise I might have been too unsteady to manage it myself.

It was very pleasant for me in both feelings and visions, but these things are so.. personal.. and we're all so different that expecting similar results to anyone else seems like a bad idea. Still, it shows that it's at least a possibility.

Edited to add: Not pleasant for my lungs, though. My chest hurt for at least a day afterward.

 

[Mindlusion]

Wonder if any one has had a large dose, say over 200mg, and had anything other than a total kicking?

I did just over 200mg, vaporized, my first time with DMT because I like to throw myself into the deep end. I was able to do it thanks to having someone else hold the pipe and heat it for me, otherwise I might have been too unsteady to manage it myself.

It was very pleasant for me in both feelings and visions, but these things are so.. personal.. and we're all so different that expecting similar results to anyone else seems like a bad idea. Still, it shows that it's at least a possibility.

Edited to add: Not pleasant for my lungs, though. My chest hurt for at least a day afterward.

Doubtful you got the actual dose, extremely high doses consistently give black out or amnesiac effects (100mg+ with proper technique). Not to mention the time required to inhale such a dose, 200mg of vapour is more than a few lungfuls. DMT is self limiting in this sense as its difficult to actually take such a high dose. Especially with 5-meo-DMT as it's dose response curve is steeper, and overall dose much smaller. So in that way, higher doses are less terrifying, since are not conscious of it.

Consider IV doses, 22-36mg intravenous is experiential equivalent to anywhere between 40-80mg vaporized, with good technique. Anything >40mg IV is surely black out. If I wasn't clear, thats correct, 22mg is a breakthrough dose, if all of it actually enters the bloodstream, which it clearly does not for vaporizing route.

 

[RabidLabMouse]

Doubtful you got the actual dose, extremely high doses consistently give black out or amnesiac effects (100mg+ with proper technique). Not to mention the time required to inhale such a dose, 200mg of vapour is more than a few lungfuls. DMT is self limiting in this sense as its difficult to actually take such a high dose. Especially with 5-meo-DMT as it's dose response curve is steeper, and overall dose much smaller. So in that way, higher doses are less terrifying, since are not conscious of it

Highly probable. I did my best to take in as much as possible though, heh. I even did breathing treatments to make sure my lungs were at their best beforehand because I have very mild asthma. The only time I have gotten black out or amnesiac effects from anything has been ketamine.

And actually, now that I think of it, it was really 200mg+ in three trips even though it was all within about 45 minutes. I took a few hits, had a pleasant but not too deep experience, sat up and told him (my helper) that I wanted in again. More hits, went waaaay deeper, came back out and sat up and told him to load it up for another, third, round. The last one was about the depth of the second one.

 

[Mindlusion]

And actually, now that I think of it, it was really 200mg+ in three trips even though it was all within about 45 minutes.

That explains it. Taking 200mg over 45 minutes is entirely different than taking it over 15 seconds. When people are talking about doses they usually mean it as a single dose... Be clear about it in your post or someone might think taking 200mg dose all at once is going to be 'pleasant'.

 

[RabidLabMouse]

That explains it. Taking 200mg over 45 minutes is entirely different than taking it over 15 seconds. When people are talking about doses they usually mean it as a single dose... Be clear about it in your post or someone might think taking 200mg dose all at once is going to be 'pleasant'.

Sorry, you'll have to excuse my inaccuracy as a combination of lack of familiarity with terminology (a work in progress) and a general lack of experience with this world (also working on it.) I apologize and now I know. And knowing is half the battle.

 

[syberdelic]

And actually, now that I think of it, it was really 200mg+ in three trips even though it was all within about 45 minutes.

That explains it. Taking 200mg over 45 minutes is entirely different than taking it over 15 seconds. When people are talking about doses they usually mean it as a single dose... Be clear about it in your post or someone might think taking 200mg dose all at once is going to be 'pleasant'.

I would say it was more like 25 minutes for her to take in around 250mg with the first 100 in maybe 10 minutes max. She has high tolerance to just about everything but I was still very surprised to see someone take in that much DMT and just having a mild trip. I have administered DMT to many people and know what I'm doing so there's no question of product or technique. I'm pretty sure that the only reason she found it pleasant is because of the ridiculously high tolerance.

 

[Mindlusion]

And actually, now that I think of it, it was really 200mg+ in three trips even though it was all within about 45 minutes.

That explains it. Taking 200mg over 45 minutes is entirely different than taking it over 15 seconds. When people are talking about doses they usually mean it as a single dose... Be clear about it in your post or someone might think taking 200mg dose all at once is going to be 'pleasant'.

I would say it was more like 25 minutes for her to take in around 250mg with the first 100 in maybe 10 minutes max. She has high tolerance to just about everything but I was still very surprised to see someone take in that much DMT and just having a mild trip. I have administered DMT to many people and know what I'm doing so there's no question of product or technique. I'm pretty sure that the only reason she found it pleasant is because of the ridiculously high tolerance.

Interesting syberdelic, ive seen something like that happen too before, not at that high dosages, but, with doses that would utterly destroy me, to someone where the experience was only mild. But in this case they weren't taking it from a sober state a mind, every time they tried it they made sure to smoke a lot of pot first (I don't know why he would do this, said to help his nerves). I figured it dulled the experience.

 

[syberdelic]

And actually, now that I think of it, it was really 200mg+ in three trips even though it was all within about 45 minutes.

That explains it. Taking 200mg over 45 minutes is entirely different than taking it over 15 seconds. When people are talking about doses they usually mean it as a single dose... Be clear about it in your post or someone might think taking 200mg dose all at once is going to be 'pleasant'.

I would say it was more like 25 minutes for her to take in around 250mg with the first 100 in maybe 10 minutes max. She has high tolerance to just about everything but I was still very surprised to see someone take in that much DMT and just having a mild trip. I have administered DMT to many people and know what I'm doing so there's no question of product or technique. I'm pretty sure that the only reason she found it pleasant is because of the ridiculously high tolerance.

Interesting syberdelic, ive seen something like that happen too before, not at that high dosages, but, with doses that would utterly destroy me, to someone where the experience was only mild. But in this case they weren't taking it from a sober state a mind, every time they tried it they made sure to smoke a lot of pot first (I don't know why he would do this, said to help his nerves). I figured it dulled the experience.

I have mixed with weed a couple times. It does manage to calm the nerves, but I don't notice any reduction in the potency of DMT from it.

 

[RabidLabMouse]

Yeah, I guess my perception of time was a little off but I was trying to err on the side of caution. I didn't have any marijuana beforehand. Since it was my first experience, I wanted it to be... pure, I guess.

My natural tolerance issues can be a hassle but there's also a real possibility that it's kept me from ever having a bad trip on anything. Syberdelic is kind of (totally) obsessed with breaking me through my "pleasant" trips and I'm sure it'll happen someday but.. I'm enjoying it while it lasts.

 

[Mindlusion]

the other possibility I can think of is that users with past experience tend to show increased sensitivity over time, like a long term reverse tolerance, this is definitely the case for me. Most members would agree, for something like mushrooms, when they were just getting started they could barely detect 2g, yet today 0.5g would be a more than obvious change in consciousness, even visual.


Although DMT seems like a different beast, perhaps not... 40mg was more than enough for me my first time, though I had experience with mushrooms. Maybe its a neurochemistry thing, receptor density... Which entirely depends on a persons life, they create each other, so to speak.

For example, SSRIs severely dampen the experience, depending on how long you have been taking them for for and can take months or even years for the brain to adapt back. The common return among anyone taking SSRIs, even with a few days or weeks break, is that its nearly impossible to breakthrough.

 

[RabidLabMouse]

the other possibility I can think of is that users with past experience tend to show increased sensitivity over time, like a long term reverse tolerance, this is definitely the case for me. Most members would agree, for something like mushrooms, when they were just getting started they could barely detect 2g, yet today 0.5g would be a more than obvious change in consciousness, even visual.


Although DMT seems like a different beast, perhaps not... 40mg was more than enough for me my first time, though I had experience with mushrooms. Maybe its a neurochemistry thing, receptor density... Which entirely depends on a persons life, they create each other, so to speak.

For example, SSRIs severely dampen the experience, depending on how long you have been taking them for for and can take months or even years for the brain to adapt back. The common return among anyone taking SSRIs, even with a few days or weeks break, is that its nearly impossible to breakthrough.

This is actually one of the reasons that I joined the Nexus, for help with my tolerance issues. How common they might be and how to get around them. They're complicated, a combination of natural high tolerance and selective reverse tolerance. I don't want to derail someone else's thread further so I'll make a new one some time to lay out this bag of snakes.