First Batch Questions

[inthebeginning]

Hello all,

I am currently working on my first batch using Q21Q21's Vinegar/Lime tek (#1, using d-Limonene). As far as I can tell, things seem to be going well with the tek. The question I have is what I am going to do with it to make it usable.

I am planning on using mullen leaves and passionflower as a changa base (maybe more of a enhanced leaf as passionflower probably won't be a strong enough MAOI). The tek produces DMT acetate instead of DMT freebase. Does anyone have experience smoking DMT acetate? I have read differing opinions on the site (the tek even recommends smoking the DMT acetate even though the wiki says you should only smoke DMT freebase). What do you guys think?

If I need to convert the acetate to freebase, does anyone have a fool-proof method for doing that conversion for a single dose? I'd like to keep the bulk of my yield as a vinegar tincture.

Thanks! :d

 

[Voidmatrix]

This thread and this thread should help you make a decision.

You may want to convert several doses to hold you over.

However, you could also just convert it to freebase and dissolve and leave in grain alcohol (everclear) for long-term storage. If you want to use some, just squirt the amount you want onto whatever device you use, allow to completely dry, and disembark

One love

 

[Hyper Turtle]

Hey inthebeginning

I have smoked acetate before, and i found it to be a very ok smoke, almost tasty. I've heard others say it was very harsh, that was not how it went for me. Maybe it's because i let my changa dry for over 2 weeks before smoking it.

The reason smoking salts (including acetate) is generally discouraged here, is that potentially harmful side products are created in the combustion. [EDIT: see Voidmatrix's links]

If you want to make changa/enhanced leaf, i suggest you convert using the sodium carbonate paste method:
- Add sodium carbonate (not bicarbonate!) to your acetate goo and mix well. Use enough to make the mixture crumbly.
- Add a few drops of water. mix well.
- Let everything dry completely.
- Crush the dried mixture to a powder / very small clumps.
- Use dry acetone to extract the dmt freebase from this powder. Soak the powder for some minutes with some swirling/stirring, filter through a coffee filter. Repeat as long as the acetone picks up color.
- Use these combined acetone washes to infuse your herbs.
- Boil off all the acetone in a water bath. Then let the changa air dry until you smell no acetone.
- Put it in a jar for a day, then open and sniff the jar. If you smell the tiniest hint of acetone, air it out and repeat until there is zero acetone smell building up anymore. This can take up to a week or two.

Strength-wise, i recommend dmt:herb ratio between 1:1 and 1:3. You can use the acetate weight for this, as you won't know the exact amount of freebase if you do it as i described. The easiest way to weigh goo is to weigh the container with goo, then weigh the empty container and subtract.

 

[inthebeginning]

Thanks for the input!

What do you guys think about this? It is out of the tek, talking about making an ethanol tincture

Ethanol Tincture

Note:75% ethanol dissolves full spectrum jimjam DMT much better than 95% ethanol, I haven't tried anything less like 40% vodka yet though.

To make an ethanol tincture either: 1: Proceed to step 4 below then continue to heat on minumum until a sap-like red goo remains

After it cools add ethanol drop by drop, stirring with a toothpick until the goo is all dissolved.

Use a dropper to transfer to a small dropper bottle to complete your ticture.

2: Evaporate all of the vinegar in a flat-bottom glass dish in an oven on the lowest setting then take it out as soon as (or slightly before) all the liquid is gone.

Once the resultant goo smells strongly, but not of vinegar then let it cool.

Prepare a small glass-dropper with a minimal amount of ethanol (1 gram of DMT dissolves in about 3ml of 75% ethanol)

Scrape up the goo on a razor then use a toothpick to transfer the goo into the bottle to make your tincture.

The ethanol tincture contains freebase jimjam DMT rather than DMT acetate and should be appropriate for directly evaporating on regular or MAOI herbs for changa. Unlike vinegar, the stability of DMT in ethanol is unknown currently (tests ongoing) so use caution with your DMT stores.

So he's going straight from vinegar to an ethanol tincture, converting to freebase? Do you know of the stability/shelf-life of an ethanol tincture? This method seems a lot simpler. Am I missing something?

Also, if I convert several doses, how long would they last? Is it better to store as changa/enhanced leaf, or should I hold off on making the changa until I am ready to dose?

 

[Hyper Turtle]

Hehe, how long they last depends on how soon and intense your honeymoon phase develops

I usually make 2.5g of changa at a time (1g leafy material with 1g of DMT and 0.5g of harmalas) and it lasts me somewhere between 3 months and 2 years.

I would absolutely make the changa now, so when you're ready, it's there. I have bits of changa that's 2-3 years old and it still works just fine (stored in a marmalade glass with screwed on lid at room temperature).

Evaporate all of the vinegar in a flat-bottom glass dish in an oven on the lowest setting then take it out as soon as (or slightly before) all the liquid is gone.

Once the resultant goo smells strongly, but not of vinegar then let it cool.

I doubt that it's really converted to freebase at that point. I think it just means the excess acetic acid is gone, and maybe some percentage of the acetate did convert.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

marmalade glass

jam jar, jelly jar or conserve jar
(in case anyone was confused)

 

[inthebeginning]

I will definitely be making the changa ahead of time, thanks!

I'm pretty green when it comes to any kind of smoking, so I tried out the mullen and passionflower on their own first (using a small water bong that I just got). That combo was super harsh for me, though the mullen by itself was not so bad. I'm sure the harshness was a combination between not knowing how to draw the smoke well and not having any conditioning for it in my lungs. It made me really consider pharmahuasca.

I made a concentrated passionflower tea, steeping a little over a cup of the leaves and boiling it down quite a bit. I don't know how much passionflower tea I would need to drink for it to work as an MAOI, but I am pretty uninterested in smoking it. I think I could still do enhanced leaf with mullen and take an MAOI orally 45 minutes to an hour before smoking. Last night I spent some time looking for some answers about passionflower as an MAOI, but there's not a ton of info. Does anyone know how many grams of passionflower I would need to boil into a tea for it to have an effect?

Also, if anyone is doing the Q21Q21 d-limonene tek, be warned: your house will smell STRONGLY of vinegar and limonene after making the tincture for a long time; which smells okay at first, but gets old fast. It has taken days to clear out, and I can still smell it faintly. If you care about that sort of thing, you may want to use naphtha as a non-polar solvent, or do the tincture step on a hotplate outside.

marmalade glass

jam jar, jelly jar or conserve jar Wink
(in case anyone was confused)

lol we say jelly in my neck of the woods

 

[Hyper Turtle]

Hehe well i guess my native german tongue shows there

I found passion flower to be harsh too. I don't usually say it because most people seem to not think so... Try basil - it may sound stupid, but i really like it.

 

[inthebeginning]

Okay, so last night I took my DMT acetate vinegar solution and used a double boiler to reduce the solution to just the DMT acetate. This allowed me to avoid moving the DMT to another container, as I think I would have lost a lot of yield that way. I found that I had about 2.1g of DMT acetate from a 100g bag of MHRB. While that was going on, I used a stainless steel pan to convert sodium bicarb to sodium carbonate on my stovetop. I added sodium carbonate to the DMT acetate. I ended up adding way too much water, and didn't have the coffee filters or pure acetone in my house, so I shelved the mixture for the night.

I later found this conversion tek on a thread and roughly followed the directions.

I use this approach for such conversion
(it is actually necessary for me as I use salting out of dmt from toluene during my extractions)

Dissolve dmt salt in water. I use directly cleaned vinegar saltings.

Basify it. Dmt fb precipitate.

Filter out using funnel with cotton ball in it, dmt fb stays in funnel, basic water goes through it and can be discarded.

Wash dmt fb with small amount of very cold plain water or with sodcarb basic water while still in funnel.

Pour IPA into the funnel, it will dissolve dmt, as it goes through slowly because of cotton ball. Of course, keep the IPA.

Evaporate. (I use glass petri dish).

Wash dmt fb sticked to glass with small amount of cold water and check pH of this water. If too basic, repeat this step.

I am not sure if I should evaporate all the alcohol off the solution before I make my changa, or just use the 2.1g figure I had before to make a rough calculation like Homo Trypens said. If I add 2g of leaf to the DMT alcohol solution, I think that should give me between a 1:1 to 1:3 ratio of DMT:leaf. More confounding is that DMT acetate has a heavier molecular weight that DMT freebase. It does make me a little uneasy to not know exactly what I am dosing, but then again my scale isn't even that accurate.

I don't know. Let me know what you guys think. I hope someone can learn from my confusion lol.

 

[Hyper Turtle]

Nice, sounds like a plan!

according to this post:

Although if it is left to evaporate at room temperature and a light-orange gel-like substance will be achieved.
This will contain .7575% freebase/ 132% the weight of freebase DMT and can be used for oral pharmahuasca or sublingual lingahuasca.

So if that's correct, and your acetate was pure, and your conversion was without loss, and you add 2g of herbs to the result of converting 2.1g acetate, your changa (or enhanced leaf if no MAOI is present) will be about 1:1.257 freebase:herbs. So even considering some impurities and losses you're probably well within the mentioned range.

You can determine the real amount of freebase pretty accurately before you dose, by weighing the dry product and subtracting the weight of the herbs.

 

[inthebeginning]

Ooh, great idea on weighing the final product and subtracting my leaf weight. The ipa solution already has a pretty dark orange hue, so I imagine it will dry to a dark orange paste. That was what it looked like as I was doing the conversion.

The ipa freebase solution also smells so much better than the vinegar salt solution. I think in the future I will avoid the limonene vinegar tek and opt for the naptha tek for that reason. I like my house not smelling super weird. Also, there have been many extra steps that I didn't consider when choosing a tek. Producing freebase directly as opposed to having to do these conversions would have been much simpler, and I am sure I have lost a good bit of yield with the extra steps.

 

[Hyper Turtle]

Yeah my ectracting developed similarly. I originally decided for limo teks because i thought naphtha would stink

Nowadays i make almost white freebase with little hassle, and the naphtha i get doesn't smell much, and actually pretty nice.

I do feel like the limo extracts kinda had some added dimension though.

 

[inthebeginning]

So... I messed up. I boiled the mullen leaf in the IPA/freebase solution instead of waiting for it to reduce. Now I have a soggy mess. I've been trying to cure it for many days. I used the fridge method. It worked okay, but it is still pretty soggy. Two days ago I got some desiccant packs. I have it sealed up (not touching the changa directly), and I'll see if that works. I'm afraid I may have to re-extract my DMT and try again. Or worse, scrap it all and start over.

Does anyone have experience with this issue? If so, what did you do? How soggy can your leaf be and it still be okay to smoke?

Update: I think its okay. I let it cure in a jar with the desiccant packs and it has dried considerably. It is also not too brittle - which was another concern. I'm going to let it cure further.