First Breakthrough was Pretty Frightening. Help!

[ReverseConcaveSpoon]

Hey everyone. First time poster. I’ll preface by saying I’m a fairly pragmatic guy. Open minded but a dose of healthy scepticism. Tried a few low doses. Highly interesting. First times I’ve seriously visually hallucinated. I did perceive ‘entities’ in one of them.

This takes me to last night. Finally decided to go for the breakthrough. I went in with no expectations. A small hope it might be like some of the nicer things I’ve read and heard about. Boy, I’m a little envious of those now.

I pulled on the emesh I’d set up. 30mg. I had that ‘mind fired out of a cannon’ sensation and within moments I was landing in the strangest of places. It was like my mind inverted on itself and I now recognise this as the breakthrough. As soon as that happened a fairly unfriendly presence was basically poking fun at me by saying heee’s back! You know this place don’t you! You remember. I thought “ohhh fuck! I’m here again.” I don’t know where ‘here’ is but is was very familiar and more real than real somehow. Let me say this is already by far the strangest thing I’ve ever experienced in my 40 something years.

It continued to goad me saying “and now you remember the joke, don’t you. This is the real place and all that other stuff that’s you ‘life’ is the illusion!.” I recall the words joke and illusion vividly. And I did remember. I remembered that I always for get that this is how things really are and I always go back to ‘life’ to avoid this. This place is lonely. Nothing exists here except me.

I began to fret. I didn’t want all the people and things I care about and love to not be real. I started to try to remember things about my life. Trying to find meaning. This presence was still mocking me. “Ok, what’s a dog? Is that even a thing? What’s a lover? Do you remember who that is? It’s all fictional.” I was trying to think.

“Meaning? What does this mean then?” And more laughing. And all these weird symbols started popping up and dancing around.

I was slowly starting to come down by then. I was both bewildered and disturbed. I tried to explain to my friend what I’d experienced but I don’t think he could fathom it. I was having enough trouble.

So here I am feeling a lot of existential crisis. How the fuck did my mind produce this. This thing just grabbed me and dragged me through oblivion. Nothing except me existing? I hate solipsism. It’s such a depressing concept.

Can anyone with experience with these kinds of things offer advice? I’ve not found any other accounts quite like this.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Skr9]

My man, it's just freaking cool, dude, and I've seen the same! I think you should come to your own conclusions about that... Some people believe we go to this place after our lives kind of like an afterlife realm. That's why they say, "Welcome back, dude" ...You just gotta remember you were there. Nice experience, man, thanks!

 

[Sakkadelic]

Hey @ReverseConcaveSpoon

Welcome to the nexus! And to the DMT world!

My friend you just had a typical dmt experience, I am sorry it took a negative turn but the things you describe are spot on. The I'm here again, a place and feeling so strange yet so familiar and more real than reality itself, I remember, life is an illusion. This is very typical, and indeed existential and disturbing. Sometimes it presents itself more nicely as the place where we all belong where we're all one.

You don't always get what you want but I hope you get a more positive and fun experience next time.

 

[ReverseConcaveSpoon]

My man, it's just freaking cool, dude, and I've seen the same! I think you should come to your own conclusions about that... Some people believe we go to this place after our lives kind of like an afterlife realm. That's why they say, "Welcome back, dude" ...You just gotta remember you were there. Nice experience, man, thanks!

Hey, seriously thanks for replying. I think I just feel like… this is just wild. I had no idea. I’ve been reading and watching stuff about it. Absolutely nothing can prepare you. It felt so real. The skeptic in me still has no idea what to do with it but that was a fucking journey. It wasn’t nice but it was profound. Several times today I felt like crying because I was so relieved I have this life but it’s like the experience was just “it’s equally just bullshit bro. It’s nothing. It’s a fully immersive video game and you just logged off for a moment you dick.” I guess that’s the lesson but I wish it didn’t put that thought in the back of my head that I might just be a brain in a vat, you know?

Edit: I will say. It did feel like I’d gone back to some sort of ‘base level’ like something that’s outside of ‘life’. If I didn’t know better (and I don’t) I’d say this is beyond life. Whatever that means. It’s like the dose kicks you into there momentarily and you’re normally not there. There’s a momentary “oh fuck, I’m not supposed to see this am I?” Thing.

My own conclusion seems to be take my life a bit more calmly and seriously if that makes any sense. It’s not supposed to be an ordeal. It’s all over before you know it and you should fucking do some good things and not worry so much because it’s all just a ride. Be good. Love. Be kind. Be kind to yourself. Apparently that entity pointed out what not being kind is!

 

[ReverseConcaveSpoon]

Hey @ReverseConcaveSpoon

Welcome to the nexus! And to the DMT world!

My friend you just had a typical dmt experience, I am sorry it took a negative turn but the things you describe are spot on. The I'm here again, a place and feeling so strange yet so familiar and more real than reality itself, I remember, life is an illusion. This is very typical, and indeed existential and disturbing. Sometimes it presents itself more nicely as the place where we all belong where we're all one.

You don't always get what you want but I hope you get a more positive and fun experience next time.

Thank you for your response. I’d love to have the oneness thing. I guess I did in a sense but it was a lonely oneness. Not a connected oneness. I made a pact with myself that I will need to do this again at some point to confront this fear. I need to be way better prepared. I think I just stared at a black hole and thought, I’ll take a dip and it ripped me to shreds and now I’m wondering why it was so rough with me. I did get a sense that it was inevitable while I was in there. And I believe it. I was always going to do this. There’s no regrets. Just a heavy uneasiness about the result.

 

[fink]

Hello friend. I also have discovered that oneness, while potentially blissful at first, is abject loneliness in the end. I believe that is why we play this game with ourself. We need surprises. Kind of difficult to suprise ourself when we are all that is.

How to deal with this very personal knowledge you've stumbled on? Fuck knows. Please give me some advice if you work it out.

Don't let it ruin your life. There is work to be done and time is running out.

 

[ReverseConcaveSpoon]

Hello friend. I also have discovered that oneness, while potentially blissful at first, is abject loneliness in the end. I believe that is why we play this game with ourself. We need surprises. Kind of difficult to suprise ourself when we are all that is.

How to deal with this very personal knowledge you've stumbled on? Fuck knows. Please give me some advice if you work it out.

Don't let it ruin your life. There is work to be done and time is running out.

Hi Fink. Thanks for responding. In my experience it was lonely the entire time. It was like I was a moth caught in a net by my higher self. It was unpleasant. I’m still processing it all. It sounds like you’re searching for understanding as well. I guess all this mind can say is that I’m talking to you and you are yourself. So, we aren’t alone in this. This might be uncomfortable and I don’t know if this is what it is but perhaps we are all seperate and one at the same time. Individual and one. Able to experience things as individuals but ultimately the one thing. I know this helps little with getting by day to day. The proverb that is helping me is “before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. We are here for a reason. I think it’s to not be afraid and live a good life. I hope this helps.

 

[Pandora]

ReverseConcaveSpoon,

Welcome to the Nexus. Great report. Thank you for sharing.

Your high dose (thanks e-mesh) dose experience did not sound a-typical.

DMT wants to separate us from our connection with our bodies and our egos/sense of self. The cost is high but the payoff can be spectacular.

One thing that can help when things get scary or rough in hyperspace (IF you still have an I intact) is just to surrender. Just open yourself up, do not resist, take it in, let it happen. The ultimate letting go. I suspect, very good practice for death.

DMT either opens us to a higher dimension OR it shows us that our minds are truly infinite and filled with entire Universes, many of them fully inhabited. Either/both of these is/are authentically astonishing.

Once the feelings improve as your integrate, maybe revel in this discovery. You mentioned being 40. I am in my 50s. I suspect you would agree with me that there aren't many pleasant surprises and certainly isn't much authentic novelty to be found in everyday life. For me this is one reason why DMT is very precious.

That strong deja vu thing in the breakthrough space is very weird indeed. I mean it is palpable. One gets the sense one has been there before at some time, some trip, some space, some life . . . . But I want to reassure you it seems to be part and parcel of a strong DMT experience. It comes with the molecule/drug. So, then it is up to us to interpret, project meaning upon such things.

And in a way this is where good and bad trips are made. Not from the sense of deja vu but from an I being intact and projecting stuff onto the material.

I don't know if you projected anything or not, but the takeaway I get from your experience is just a reminder of how very sweet every single breath of this stressful, painful, ugly, glorious, gorgeous, adventurous life is. A reminder that in these bodies we are social beings and not meant to be alone all the time, of how valuable human and pet connection and relation is in this life. Things like that.

Whenever someone has a rough ride I encourage a period of self care and focusing on the every day. Really just lean into work/school/family/pets. Eat well, exercise, have an orgasm, take a nature walk/hike, take the dog to a forested trail, that kind of thing.

And maybe start journalling if you have not done so. There may come a point in five or ten years when you will want to look back on this and try to assess personal growth/change. Journalling can help.

Again, thank you for this report and I certainly hope you are starting to feel a little better about things.

 

[Here&Now]

Welcome to the Nexus! This is some wild stuff. I've had a few DMT breakthroughs that were pretty similar, including the infinite/eternal terror and all. But it's interesting how that same realization of oneness can also be accompanied by extreme bliss and ecstatic joy. I'm not totally sure what differentiates the two polar reactions to the same realization.

 

[fink]

Familiarity.

When oneness is a new experience there perhaps is bliss.

But our friend OP has been there before. For eternity.

 

[Here&Now]

Familiarity.

When oneness is a new experience there perhaps is bliss.

But our friend OP has been there before. For eternity.

Yeah, I noticed your post above. Interesting perspective, and you could definitely be on to something.

 

[blig-blug]

I once had a similar experience (but much less intense, I'm sure) with 2C-B, of all things. It was as if I was going into the backstage of reality. It appeared in the gaps between in-breath and out-breath, very strongly. The feeling was very positive, the message there was kind of like "now you see that life is not that serious, have fun and enjoy the show, but remember that in reality it's a game and everything is always alright". Maybe it could be a different way to look at the same type of experience.

 

[Here&Now]

I once had a similar experience (but much less intense, I'm sure) with 2C-B, of all things. It was as if I was going into the backstage of reality. It appeared in the gaps between in-breath and out-breath, very strongly. The feeling was very positive, the message there was kind of like "now you see that life is not that serious, have fun and enjoy the show, but remember that in reality it's a game and everything is always alright". Maybe it could be a different way to look at the same type of experience.

Yep, exactly. That'd be an example of what sounds like a positive realization of life's illusory nature. It can often occur alongside a tremendous feeling of liberation. It's just too bad that not all realizations of that magnitude are positive, because the good ones are like literal tastes of enlightenment.

 

[Sakkadelic]

But our friend OP has been there before. For eternity.

yes for me this is the most terrifying part, the realization that it is eternal and not even death seems like a way out. while this is a reason for despair, it is also a reason to carry on, the only way is through.

regarding the familiarity feeling, I've also experienced it with dreams where I have wild dreams but it feels like am remembering and not dreaming, something like a big cult scene happening in my village or holding hands with my eternal lover and flying over green fields, and the first moments after waking up are very confusing not knowing what is real and what is not. I like to interpret it as the boundary between imagination and memory melting away and not being able to distinguish between the two. Perhaps what happens with dmt is similar as it is THE boundary dissolving substance.

 

[Tripolation]

Just a wild opinion.

In oneness is the eternal and there is no time in eternity. It's when any kind of duality comes into play that time and discomfort begin.

Kind of like having a madman at your throat. That guy is going absolutely bonkers nuts and wants out. That guy needs purpose. What kind of purpose does this duality serve?

The realization that you will exist forever is one that should not frighten or else you may be driven mad or embrace it and find yourself free. I feel that 'The all, the universe, god or whatever you want to call it' is choosing to separate itself from the eternal and we are the result. Blissed out for all of eternity sounds boring. It's sets the drama in motion and watches the madman turn into the guru. Over and over again we go round and sooner or later we all will remember where we came from. It's terrifying and beautiful at the same time.

We remember to forget and forget to remember.

To the OP, that experience sounds awesome, let it settle in for a bit, integrate, and I think that terrifying feeling will fade and awe will remain. You may once again here the call into the void. Personally I think it's pretty cool that we can experience anything like this at all. Thank you for sharing your experience and being open about your feelings about it. Each experience with DMT is different and not always so rough. Give it another go after some time and pay attention to your dosage so you can find the sweet spot. Building a relationship with DMT takes time and it can be much easier to do that if you know how much you are taking and what it does to you. If too intense, dial it back, if too mild, ramp it up.

You made it back to tell the tale and no one will believe you!! Well... I believe you and so do many others. Glad to have you with us my friend! Welcome!

 

[ReverseConcaveSpoon]

ReverseConcaveSpoon,

Welcome to the Nexus. Great report. Thank you for sharing.

Your high dose (thanks e-mesh) dose experience did not sound a-typical.

DMT wants to separate us from our connection with our bodies and our egos/sense of self. The cost is high but the payoff can be spectacular.

One thing that can help when things get scary or rough in hyperspace (IF you still have an I intact) is just to surrender. Just open yourself up, do not resist, take it in, let it happen. The ultimate letting go. I suspect, very good practice for death.

DMT either opens us to a higher dimension OR it shows us that our minds are truly infinite and filled with entire Universes, many of them fully inhabited. Either/both of these is/are authentically astonishing.

Once the feelings improve as your integrate, maybe revel in this discovery. You mentioned being 40. I am in my 50s. I suspect you would agree with me that there aren't many pleasant surprises and certainly isn't much authentic novelty to be found in everyday life. For me this is one reason why DMT is very precious.

That strong deja vu thing in the breakthrough space is very weird indeed. I mean it is palpable. One gets the sense one has been there before at some time, some trip, some space, some life . . . . But I want to reassure you it seems to be part and parcel of a strong DMT experience. It comes with the molecule/drug. So, then it is up to us to interpret, project meaning upon such things.

And in a way this is where good and bad trips are made. Not from the sense of deja vu but from an I being intact and projecting stuff onto the material.

I don't know if you projected anything or not, but the takeaway I get from your experience is just a reminder of how very sweet every single breath of this stressful, painful, ugly, glorious, gorgeous, adventurous life is. A reminder that in these bodies we are social beings and not meant to be alone all the time, of how valuable human and pet connection and relation is in this life. Things like that.

Whenever someone has a rough ride I encourage a period of self care and focusing on the every day. Really just lean into work/school/family/pets. Eat well, exercise, have an orgasm, take a nature walk/hike, take the dog to a forested trail, that kind of thing.

And maybe start journalling if you have not done so. There may come a point in five or ten years when you will want to look back on this and try to assess personal growth/change. Journalling can help.

Again, thank you for this report and I certainly hope you are starting to feel a little better about things.

Wow. Thanks for your response Pandora. It was so powerful. It couldn’t even be described as allegorical or vague in any sense. It was literally like being grabbed by something and told how things are. It’s just that the message was disturbing.

Another thing I need to be honest about. It felt like the thing delivering the message was somehow also myself. It literally feels like the scenario of the lonely god who tricks themself into forgetting who they are to live billions of mundane lives.

If that is true why was I so unkind to myself? This presence was kinda a jerk. A very powerful jerk. It did not behave like myself at all. It behaved in a way I don’t like. This also gives me thoughts of perhaps this is some kind of Abrahamic demonic scenario. This is not a comfortable scenario to me either as I have no religious beliefs, nor did I grow up with any.

I still have no idea what to do with this experience. It’s like going to a carnival and getting on some ride that looks fairly straightforward and then being shot into a scary dimension through a black hole.

 

[blig-blug]

If that is true why was I so unkind to myself? This presence was kinda a jerk. A very powerful jerk. It did not behave like myself at all. It behaved in a way I don’t like. This also gives me thoughts of perhaps this is some kind of Abrahamic demonic scenario. This is not a comfortable scenario to me either as I have no religious beliefs, nor did I grow up with any.

I have no strong opinions on it, but you may be interested in Jung's concept of the Shadow. Quoting the opening of Wikipedia article for it:

In analytical psychology, the shadow [...] is an unconscious aspect of the personality that does not correspond with the ego ideal, leading the ego to resist and project the shadow, creating conflict with it. The shadow may be personified as archetypes which relate to the collective unconscious, such as the trickster.[

 

[fink]

yes for me this is the most terrifying part, the realization that it is eternal and not even death seems like a way out. while this is a reason for despair, it is also a reason to carry on, the only way is through.

regarding the familiarity feeling, I've also experienced it with dreams where I have wild dreams but it feels like am remembering and not dreaming, something like a big cult scene happening in my village or holding hands with my eternal lover and flying over green fields, and the first moments after waking up are very confusing not knowing what is real and what is not. I like to interpret it as the boundary between imagination and memory melting away and not being able to distinguish between the two. Perhaps what happens with dmt is similar as it is THE boundary dissolving substance.

Thank you for this Sakkadelic. I believe you are right. Through is the only direction.

I'm learning to understand how much of a reward this simple 3D place is. It's not always easy. It is really comforting what you wrote, 'we' are not alone here. Only 'I' is alone. The fact that we have this ability to manifest a whole universe to get lost in is pretty cool. I guess we can achieve anything after eternity with nothing to do.

Memory creates time. A day of amnesia is time travel. The void has nothing to remember about it. So eternity is over before it's even started. All that remains is the knowledge that we were there forever. Still there. Never there.

Babies laugh and puppies are good to stroke. Sunshine feels pleasant on the skin. The stars twinkle and the rivers flow with a soothing sound. The tree you look at one minute is almost always still a tree the next. Despite everything, this place is incredible.

 

[ReverseConcaveSpoon]

I have no strong opinions on it, but you may be interested in Jung's concept of the Shadow. Quoting the opening of Wikipedia article for it:

Thank you! I actually stumbled onto this yesterday. First I’d ever heard of it. I’m aware of Jung but not this. I have more to learn about this. Thanks again.

 

[ReverseConcaveSpoon]

Welcome to the Nexus! This is some wild stuff. I've had a few DMT breakthroughs that were pretty similar, including the infinite/eternal terror and all. But it's interesting how that same realization of oneness can also be accompanied by extreme bliss and ecstatic joy. I'm not totally sure what differentiates the two polar reactions to the same realization.

Thanks for responding. It’s nice to know I’m not alone here (irony noted). I thought I bought the bliss ticket. Must have got on the wrong ride. lol. Maybe next time when I get the cajones to go again.