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first extraction

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DVSnz

Rising Star
SWIM tried his first extraction today. Broke up 227g of Root Bark, added a mixture of 170g Caustic & 2L Water. PH was around 12.5 but SWIM added another 500ml water and PH moved to 13. Let it soak for an hour then stirred & mashed it for next 30mins. Swim cant find VM&P Naptha so he used 250ml Zippo lighter fluid. Well stirred then left for 30mins. Mixture was in a large pyrex measuring jug, Swim just carefully poured as much of the lighter fluid of as possible without getting dark colored stuff. Got around 175ml of lighter fluid in glass dish. Swim evaporated dish and found .1g. Swim added another 250ml (Ronsonol Lighter Fluid this time) to root bark and has left overnight. Swim will find a Seperator before taking next fluid off, but should SWIM be worried at only getting .1g from 175ml. Or has SWIM made an error?
 
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First of all, how did you have 2L of water with a ph of 12.5, add more water, and get a higher ph w/o adding more base? What are you using to test your ph? Second of all, i find stirring is not enough to mix the naptha with the mimosa/lye/water. It really needs to get in there to grab the DMT. If you're using a jar, put the lid on and turn it end-over-end. Don't shake it , just turn it over gently numerous times, let sit, and repeat. Make sure your ph is correct first though or it won't seperate.
 
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[quote:0b31a22a05]heh ... noobs and STB.... what a combination ![/quote:0b31a22a05] I don't see how problems arise personally. Water+Lye+MHRB...mix...wait...+naptha...mix...wait...remove naptha,freeze = DMT Seems easy enough, but let's just try to be helpful. The first time's the hardest (not that i've ever done this of course).
 
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[quote:cb580a0d01="El Ka Bong"]heh ... noobs and STB.... what a combination ![/quote:cb580a0d01] Who could have guessed, another helpful post by El Ka Bong on STB? Please, share the wealth of your knowledge with us! To the OP: Just follow Noman's tek, it's not difficult and produces great results. SWIM did one recrystallization on the STB yield and ended up with glass clear blades of hyperspace fuel. How did your pH rise if more water was added? VM&P Naptha is very easy to find around here, every hardware store has it.
 
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firstly, you 'broke up' the bark if this means you tried to extract from sizable chunks of root bark you're never going to get max yields (you want to powder the bark as much as possible so you're maximising the surface area contact of bark to solvent; basically this way more dmt is exposed to your liquids and is then able to migrate away from the bark, in chunks it'll stay trapped inside there) 170g of caustic to 2L water should be easy enough to basify well, but perhaps bump that up to 250g just to be sure. Also, make your water pretty hot first, doesn't need to be boiling but say around 70 degrees celcius should be good, then basify (carefully and slowly). If the only warming your bark + water solution had was from the exothermic response of adding caustic to water, then no good - because dmt requires a little convincing to move into your extraction solvent (naptha i presume, if not it should be) - the solution needs to be HOT, real hot --i just saw you use zippo lighter fluid, seriously dude take this shit seriously, you just lost about 2 grams of good spice for no good reason, naptha is there no worries you can find it, if it's really that hard then contact some pertoleum chemical suppliers and source some hexane, easy done if you have the will back to it, you poured the lighter fluid into the persumably luke warm water, and separated.. do this: while your solution is REAL HOT, like just after you've added the 250g of caustic to the hotish water, right after that add 250mL of naptha, shake real thoroughly for about 2 mins (and CAREFULLY, pressure builds up here really rapidly). wait no more than 5 mins and siphon off the top layer (naptha sits on top of water) - or use a turkey baster. Quickly add another 250mL and do the same thing, now to re-heat your mixture add say another 100grams of caustic soda, shake real well, and add 500mL of naptha- shake, separate get a glass tray or good sized jar that you can fit your whole hand into, and put your three pulls in here. using a fan on low at a distance, evaporate the mix down to about 400mL ** put it in the freezer for two days and don't disturb it. after two days, get it out and pour off the solvent into something (have that something waiting) - decant it slowly, being careful not to let any dmt floaters get past. using a fan for about an hour evaporate any remaining solvent until the jar is dry, you'll have a nice amount of spice **if you're perdantic about your yields (which when you know the value of spice you will be), at this point you should use a hot water bath (just plug a basin and fill it with real hot water) and dunk your jar in here: the reason is, where you've evaporated down there will be a sticky translucent film that smells reaaal fucking fine, that's un-crystallised dmt. basically, get your solvent hot (if it was cloudy from the evaporating, it needs to be clear again) and swirl it around heaps to get those bits. I don't know exactly how much is there, but in the past i suspect i've lost at least a gram from shit like this, you don't want to lose a gram of spice do you? like i said, take this shit seriously if you don't, then you're doing a real injustice to the plants that are there to provide, it's like looking at a logging area that's fucking full of imperfect logs, shit they could have been firewood, paper, whatever, fucking disrespectful pricks imo.. don't take offence to that man, this is just my opinion so, well, what the fuck do i know? peace :D
 
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Zippo ! ..."like i said, take this shit seriously " ... that's what I keep saying too. Zippo fuel !!..?~ Even noobs like me had to learn some chemistry first, and figure out what the stages and ingredients of tek does. Then maybe you'll get better than 0.02% yeild, and not be smoking drano or rust-preventors ~! But hey maybe, then you'll see 0.3% yeild ! I wonder why some of us don't take this process "seriously enough" to care about yeild - ie that there is at least [b:be2d66580f]1.1 - 1.4g[/b:be2d66580f] of pure spice in just 150 grams of good MHRB ! That is a fact. Never mind the way STB 'requires' a totally excessive use of lye (considering the pKa of dmt is 8.0), and the other saftey/DANGER concerns with cooking a lye-stew up with naphtha. .. and I expect my opinions will raise the hackles of those STB-ers that don't weigh their yeild, I know ... but let's also hear about yeilds from STB from those that have mg scales handy - just for the sake of comparing notes, and sharing knowledge.
 
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[quote:e6091fe953="El Ka Bong"]Zippo ! ..."like i said, take this shit seriously " ... that's what I keep saying too. Zippo fuel !!..?~ Even noobs like me had to learn some chemistry first, and figure out what the stages and ingredients of tek does. Then maybe you'll get better than 0.02% yeild, and not be smoking drano or rust-preventors ~! But hey maybe, then you'll see 0.3% yeild ! I wonder why some of us don't take this process "seriously enough" to care about yeild - ie that there is at least [b:e6091fe953]1.1 - 1.4g[/b:e6091fe953] of pure spice in just 150 grams of good MHRB ! That is a fact. Never mind the way STB 'requires' a totally excessive use of lye (considering the pKa of dmt is 8.0), and the other saftey/DANGER concerns with cooking a lye-stew up with naphtha. .. and I expect my opinions will raise the hackles of those STB-ers that don't weigh their yeild, I know ... but let's also hear about yeilds from STB from those that have mg scales handy - just for the sake of comparing notes, and sharing knowledge.[/quote:e6091fe953] Take some perfect' A/B extracted and weigh with mg scales, stir into a strongly basic solution and leave for a few days; reextract and weigh again (Obviously taking account the 'mecanical' loss from the process).That should maybe show if high ph causes loss of yeild.Be interesting to know.
 
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Most likely points of failure: 1. Unsatisfactory mixing technique - stirring doesn't work - try end over end. 2. Not long enough for lye to break down bark pieces - so second pull might yield more. I don't think the heat is necessary for STB - it may increase yield a bit, but might also pull out more plant oils. Zippo and Ronsonol will work fine to pull the spice - they are naptha - just not pure, so you will end up with oily contaminants in the spice when you evaporate. Freeze precipping will apparently leave the contaminants in solution to be poured off, so if you must use lighter fluid do that instead. Let us know how the second pull went. As to the STB vs A/B debate a noob friend got 1.3% on pre-powdered MHRB on a first attempt with no prior knowledge, just followed the STB tek carefully. Used Zippo and Ronsonol - couldn't find naptha either. There was no lye contamination, and the product was later cleaned up with heptane to get 1.1g from 100g. El Ka Bong, you threatened to try an STB - how's that going - we'd love to see the results...
 
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Thanks for the replies. DZ-015: was using a brand new(callibrated too) electronic tester. SWIM has always found when using caustic on other things (not DMT)) that the caustic would only take it so far, then needed water to get higher. Even when using PH strips. This has always been quite confusing to SWIM. ChemicalEudaemonia: MH was from a trader in Ohio. Coschi: No Offense taken, thanks for the details. What is hexane normally used for? Kosmos: Second pull has been soaking for 2days so hoping it will be a lot better too. SWIM has his friends separator now so will get every drop this pull. Havent had any luck finding VM&P Naptha yet, but found some Shellite would this be better? SWIM knew zippo and not doing that freeze precip would be nasty but was also eager to see what it was like, and yes it was nasty. Still have another 227g and will try another pull from the first batch. One thing I dont see mentioned anywhere. is it possible, instead of using solvents to pull it out. couldnt SWIM just bring it over in a still? PH it to 13, bring over on a pot still, then ph back to 7ish? and evap.
 
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... Good that you ask ! I'd say nay, laddy ... it's not moonshine we're makin' ! with MHRB we are doing a crude-extraction, not a distillation... There's some chemistry to read up on, if you like - Acid–base extraction - Wikipedia Alkaloid - Wikipedia http://designer-drugs.com/pte/12.162.180.114/dcd/chemistry/equipment/rextal.a-b.basics.html http://www.chemistry.mtu.edu/~kmsmith/Organic/Manuals/2411/Extractions/Extractions-05.pdf And this is for all the STB-er's out there ! Acid Base Extraction - Everything2.com
 
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Yeah shellite will do the trick nicely, which country are you in? i'm not really sure what hexane is used for, but a friend found some at a local something something in australia (sillysyban can answer this), or it's called bestine used in arts for something as kosmos mentions, yeah mixing ineffectively could be a big contributer, but i disagree about the temps (i say this based on my experience, but i could well be wrong) - i've found dmt is only moderately soluble at room temp shellite at best, to make it freely soluble you need a decent amount of heat
 
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[quote:ea1790dbca="Coschi"]Yeah shellite will do the trick nicely, which country are you in? i'm not really sure what hexane is used for, but a friend found some at a local something something in australia (sillysyban can answer this), or it's called bestine used in arts for something [/quote:ea1790dbca] Bestine (a solvent for removing rubber cement, etc.) contains heptane. It works wonderfully for both extractions and recrystallizations. Not that I know or anything, it's what my fish told me.
 
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[quote:faeb119bec="DZ-015"]First of all, how did you have 2L of water with a ph of 12.5, add more water, and get a higher ph w/o adding more base? What are you using to test your ph? Second of all, i find stirring is not enough to mix the naptha with the mimosa/lye/water. It really needs to get in there to grab the DMT. If you're using a jar, put the lid on and turn it end-over-end. Don't shake it , just turn it over gently numerous times, let sit, and repeat. Make sure your ph is correct first though or it won't seperate.[/quote:faeb119bec] Nah man, I regualrly pull 1% by weight using STB and I dont shake or anything, just have the jars ina CONSTANT water bath for a few days with lots of solvant. use one of the large coolers and fill it up with REALY hto water, befor work, add mroe hot water, when you get home, dump out the warm water and add mroe hot water. I dare anyone to test me in my extractions, as I said, I regularly get 1% weight in alkaloids. Thats 10 grams for every kilo. It just takes aboutr two weeks to pull everything, but when you pull three-5 grams at a time its not big deal to wait that long for it all to come out. Iv tried teh a/b extraction numberous times, even on 500 grams to 500 rgams of stb and stb has ALWAYS pulled more. also, dont fully evap using straight to base, just freeze precipt when it gets to a realy consentrated level. Iv taught numberous people my tek and they all have been able to pick it up without a problem. basicly my tek is broken down to this 50-60 grams of lye (5-6 spoons) per 500ml of water. 100grams of powdered bark per 500ml of water, 100ml of naptha per 500ml of water. If youw ant to cheat, 100grams of powdered bark is ruffly 200ml of space. Do hot water baths constantly for three days and pull and evap down till lil chunks of crystals fall (use a pouring bowl to evap in) then when it gets down to 1/10 its original volume put into a air tight glass container and put in the fridge. let sit for at least 6 hours and pour off the solvant and scrape the crystals. After that its all in how you wnat to clean it, I just do multiple freeze/preipts and have always had white/clear crystals. GOD uploaded some pics of when he telepathicly contacted me of a entire extraction start to finish on hwo to do this all, if someone was interested they could post it for the ulmighty. seriousely, follow my directions and you will get more psice from a kilo then you know what to do with... unless you are like me and smoke 80-100mg blasts :p then a gram only last about 10 blasts. (AS IT SHOULD!!!) what can I say, Im a cronic deemster smoker, always chasing that devine light of GOD.
 
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Hmm, while this is all interesting, what good would a constant hot water bath do? The naptha/whatever one is using (which contains the goodies) separates to the top of the mixture pretty quickly and has no contact with the NaOH/MHRB solution after that, so I don't see why keeping it hot would do any good. SWIM has noticed that using hot water baths result in more gooey/yellowy spice. SWIM seems to get good yields in room temperature, with the end product being quite clean.
 
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[quote:37c20620f8="ekorocket"]Hmm, while this is all interesting, what good would a constant hot water bath do? The naptha/whatever one is using (which contains the goodies) separates to the top of the mixture pretty quickly and has no contact with the NaOH/MHRB solution after that, so I don't see why keeping it hot would do any good. SWIM has noticed that using hot water baths result in more gooey/yellowy spice. SWIM seems to get good yields in room temperature, with the end product being quite clean.[/quote:37c20620f8] that goo contains alkaloids. Dont ask me, Im just an experimentor but it works. At room temp I pulled ~3grams after letting it sit a few days, on the same powdered bark I pulled 5+grams in a contant hot water bath. It works, if you dont believe me what will hurt in trying? also, when you have all that goo, just slosh in some warm naphtha and watch the crystals start to come out, it will become that of so familiar off white/seman color. Goo and alkaloids go hand and hand, its all about retreaving the alkaloids from the goo untill the goo is a destinktable brown oil.
 
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Youkanindole - gather us around the fire, and tell us some tales of Hyperspace ! And ... just wondering why not just evaporate all the NP solvent...? If you've gone 9/10ths of the way there already..?
 
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