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First time Anahuasca (DMT at all) - OVERDOSE?

Migrated topic.

ringen00

Rising Star
Last meal was linens soup with a bit of pasta about the day before lunch.
Cooked the drinks about 11 hours, until about 1 o'clock at night.
8:30am rue in the kitchen
9:00 mimosa in the chair in my room
Immediately after swallowing (large cup) brief reflex-like gagging.
The amount to be drunk was too much in volume too!
Beside my excitement, I feel first signs of warmth rising in the neck. The individual chakras occasionally announce themselves through convulsions. Then starts the sound in my ears which I assign to the DMT. A kind of drilling noise - strongly interfering vibrations. Later I also listen briefly to bells and other sounds which I find however cheap. High tinnitus-like vibrations are also occasionally present.
All the time my mind is in the increasing turmoil trying to make the decision how long I should keep the stuff in or whether I should puke at all. The bucket is ready! Occasionally I look at the clock and at 9:35 I decide spontaneously because of the intensity and its constant further increase to vomit. At first I think that it is, as usual, not easy, but then everything comes out! Try to empty the stomach content thoroughly.
"From now comes recovery" I think but that was only the beginning!
I switch off the light.
Put the vomit away and go to bed now. Still with Mickey Mouse on the ears.
The spectacle takes until 12 o'clock (2.5-3 hours!). Have visuals, also a skull, on which I am however because of the general intensity not so concentrated. I begin to negatively evaluate the whole experience and defend myself against the situation. With the eyes closed, the DMT seems to get really in motion it seems to me that the waking state is a kind of screensaver. However, all human relationships do not come to any new knowledge. Occasionally I think of a new try to vomit but my mind beckons - it's all outside.
I look more and more often at the clock - when is it finally over? Fears that it will not stop or even worse. I experience the last glaring thrust between quarter past eleven and half past twelve.
Sleeping is not possible, there is no escape! Somehow I develop a kind of strategy to keep up with the intensity. My power for knowledge has long been used up. My imagination looks a snake. A hostile being. I feel that I voluntarily try to put the experiment into it. Try to even imagine her with her eggs so I can see her from an amiable side. Does not work! By the way, the skull had teeth as soon as I wondered if he was really so unanimed immediately began to attack me - dynamically. The skull was a small visual. The serpent was pure imagination.
In combination with the sound you actually have the impression to be in the heart of the jungle. DMT does not seem strange to me and yet the dose is overwhelming! Again and again I am busy breathing. When fear arises, I provoke them, they do not increase!
I am suffering, and I am more aware that it will fade away again.

In the future, I first research the possibilities of DMT to consume without the puke. Pharmahuasca or just smoke?
The REMOVED for the one-person kit usually always 4g rue. With me it was 8! In addition, he says that the nausea comes from the Rue. I do not know if I was sick. The puke set me just set & setting completely broken. It's just not comfortable! In addition, I have calculated that it could have been up to 180mg DMT. There were 18g Mimosa. Why I missed the dose has different reasons.
First of all there is very much to research with two substances. Then the stuff comes in gram sachets and there are few details. What is often found is the listing of DMT doses in mg. Then there would still be the winter depression which is always difficult to tackle new things. Perhaps I thought synonymous to the version with vomiting I only once to pull through anyway.
It was clearly a big mistake to simply follow the dose REMOVED!
He could have confused even completely different bags ...

DMT seems to me to be indeed a physical substance - in contrast to LSD for example.
Let me know that the pineal gland has since become a little more responsive. Note this at noon sleep.
The dose was initially so high that I could hardly find peace to enjoy the opportunity to look through the third eye. My body was nervously long time on a high alert level.
Perhaps 10-20% have been missing to unconsciousness. And this for almost three hours.
Meanwhile I know for sure that I want to try DMT again.
And I know that you always have to touch the right dose.

MOD EDIT: No discussion on selling, buying, sourcing, acquiring, pricing, trading, receiving, distributing, mentioning pending deliveries or smuggling of drugs
(and don't buy Ayahuasca kits and expect miracles)
 
Ayahuasca can be very physical. (Keep in mind you are consuming several harmala alkaloids in combination with the DMT)

When it comes to peganum harmala seeds (Syrian rue), you are only trying to inhibit mono amine oxidase enzymes, which can be done effectively at three grams of seeds, consuming more than this may produce some type of psychoactivity, but it also produces severe physical symptoms, such as nausea and vomiting.

DMT, vaporized as a free-base, is not physical, there's no nausea, vomiting, or physical distress.

-eg
 
180g MHRB would be roughly 90mg DMT which is a pretty hefty oral dose. One of the reasons MHRB is so popular is consistency at 0.05%.
180g x 0.0005 = 0.09g

There are three things that contribute to nausea/vomiting with ayahuasca but have different degrees of effect on different people.
* Tannins from plant materials This can be reduced by filtration, but many tannins are water soluble and will still be present in the tea. Pharmahuasca eliminates this.
* Harmala alkaloids obviously cause some nausea dependent on dose as well as motion sickness to those who are susceptible to it.
* DMT is responsible for the "purge". That immensely corporeal vomit session that occurs shortly after placing DMT in the stomach is caused by DMT binding to 5-HT3 receptors in the gut. Although it's not actually toxic in normal doses, this makes your body think that something like rotten meat has been consumed that needs to be ejected from the stomach before the toxins reach other more sensitive organs.

There are also symptoms of serotonin syndrome present which I assume are caused by the combination of MAOI and DMT. I get some intense sweating and hot flashes on larger doses. One difference that I notice between ayahuasca and pharmahuasca is the smell of my sweat. On ayahuasca it has a rotten woody floral smell and with pharmahuasca, it's normal body odor flavored.
 
syberdelic said:
180g MHRB would be roughly 90mg DMT which is a pretty hefty oral dose. One of the reasons MHRB is so popular is consistency at 0.05%.
180g x 0.0005 = 0.09g

^^This is wildly off-target; MHRB IIRC has a DMT content of approximately 0.5 to 2%; if one is consuming MHRB then 2-3g is where one should start until a reasonable idea of its potency is gained.
 
syberdelic said:
* DMT is responsible for the "purge".

Actually, it's the Harmalas themselves that are responsible for the vomiting. I've had Mimosa and Acacia with Moclobemide quite a few times, no vomiting and only a little nausea caused by the tannins.
 
corpus callosum said:
syberdelic said:
180g MHRB would be roughly 90mg DMT which is a pretty hefty oral dose. One of the reasons MHRB is so popular is consistency at 0.05%.
180g x 0.0005 = 0.09g

^^This is wildly off-target; MHRB IIRC has a DMT content of approximately 0.5 to 2%; if one is consuming MHRB then 2-3g is where one should start until a reasonable idea of its potency is gained.

Sorry about that. 0.5% is the number that was intended... I have personally never seen anything deviating significantly from that.
So, yea... how did you not completely black out from 900mg?
 
ShamensStamen said:
syberdelic said:
* DMT is responsible for the "purge".

Actually, it's the Harmalas themselves that are responsible for the vomiting. I've had Mimosa and Acacia with Moclobemide quite a few times, no vomiting and only a little nausea caused by the tannins.
My experience from straight harmine HCl at 250mg other than intoxication is moderate nausea and some motion sickness. On another occasion, I took 225mg harmine HCl followed 20 minutes later by 75mg DMT freebase converted to DMT acetate. Maybe 10 minutes after drinking my DMT acetate, I could feel the come up accompanied by an intense need to puke. I got nothing like that from the slightly larger dose of just Harmine.

Admitedly, this is my own experience and others may vary. This is one of the huge challenges with oral DMT. It requires at minimum two different drugs that are often in different forms and have different actions on different people. I know one person in particular that has taken double what I take to get an extremely intense experience that gets a very mild experience requiring concentration to observe hallucinations.
 
Yeah perhaps try out some Moclobemide for oral DMT activation rather than Harmalas, and you'll see there shouldn't be any vomiting.

I've taken some pretty strong dosages of Rue/Harmalas, without DMT, and vomit every time unless the Harmala reverse tolerance is built up which does away with Harmala-related nausea/vomiting. I know what you mean though, i've purged from adding the DMT with the Harmalas, but it's mainly the Harmalas that causes the nausea/vomiting, and when the reverse tolerance is built up, DMT can be added and there's no vomiting. I've had plenty of high dosage experiences where there's been no nausea or vomiting. One time i took so much Harmalas that i had painful stomach contractions for hours followed by waves of vomiting, it was very strong, no DMT in the mix.
 
ShamensStamen said:
Yeah perhaps try out some Moclobemide for oral DMT activation rather than Harmalas, and you'll see there shouldn't be any vomiting.

Have you tried this? Afaik this forum could use more experience reports on moclobemide. My experience is limited but feels quite clean but different from harmalas
 
Wow, so many replies!
Thank you guys...!

As for now I'm busy
but I'll come back to it tomorrow for sure :)
 
I must say that I was quite thankful to be able
to get rid of the brew by vomiting!
Don't dare to think what I would have to go through
if not!

I cooked 18g mimosa with citron for 11 hours.

- Can someone please tell me how many mg of DMT that
probably could have been?

- And how much DMT might have been absorbed by my
body after:
8g rue (30 minutes before)
18g mimosa kept in for 35 minutes

- Next time I will try smoking DMT first
to get a 'feeling' for the substance.
After that I might be interested to 'prolong'
the experience by trying rue (or another MAOI).
The whole idea behind Aya-/Ana-/Parmahuasca
comes from the problem of dosing while smoking.
Please tell me if I'm wrong/that sounds to you as a more
clever approach :)

- what exactly (more or less) is rue actually doing?
It is inhibiting the MAO in the brain, isn't it?
Or is it happening in the stomach too? Or both?
I thought that as long as the inhibition works
the DMT will do it's job. Isn't it the MAO which
'deletes' the DMT again?
 
ringen00 said:
I must say that I was quite thankful to be able
to get rid of the brew by vomiting!
Don't dare to think what I would have to go through
if not!

I cooked 18g mimosa with citron for 11 hours.

- Can someone please tell me how many mg of DMT that
probably could have been?

- And how much DMT might have been absorbed by my
body after:
8g rue (30 minutes before)
18g mimosa kept in for 35 minutes

- Next time I will try smoking DMT first
to get a 'feeling' for the substance.
After that I might be interested to 'prolong'
the experience by trying rue (or another MAOI).
The whole idea behind Aya-/Ana-/Parmahuasca
comes from the problem of dosing while smoking.
Please tell me if I'm wrong/that sounds to you as a more
clever approach :)
If you had quality bark then around 300mg and uo to 360mg theoretically which is quite a lot.
And 8 grams of rue is a big dose too.
Nonody can tell you how much was absorbed but it doesn't seem too much from what you described about your experience and you're very lucky for that.
Please be safe and learn about the doses before attempting anything
Safe travels
 
Fuc*! ... sorry 'bout that :)
300/360mg! (didn't get where the second value
came from btw.)

Thanks Sakkadelic!
Learnt my lesson!

- what exactly (more or less) is rue actually doing?
It is inhibiting the MAO in the brain, isn't it?
Or is it happening in the stomach too? Or both?
I thought that as long as the inhibition works
the DMT will do it's job. Isn't it the MAO which
'deletes' the DMT again?
 
ringen00 said:
Fuc*! ... sorry 'bout that :)
300/360mg! (didn't get where the second value
came from btw.)

Thanks Sakkadelic!
Learnt my lesson!

- what exactly (more or less) is rue actually doing?
It is inhibiting the MAO in the brain, isn't it?
Or is it happening in the stomach too? Or both?
I thought that as long as the inhibition works
the DMT will do it's job. Isn't it the MAO which
'deletes' the DMT again?

18g*2/100 = 0.36g = 360mg
300 mg is an estimate i concluded to what might be in your brew, due to factors such as bark quality, brewing technique...

yes MAO destroys DMT, MAO is all over the body with good concentrations in the stomach/intestines... taking rue will effectively activate this route of DMT administration. sometimes the stomach holds the brew before letting it continue to your intestines where most absorption occurs and you puke too early and have minimal effects...
also rue(harmalas) alters the experience in its own way(difference between changa and freebase DMT)
 
I know my credibility has been compromised by adding the extra decimal point above but;
My experience with MHRB and I'm sure many others can corroborate is 0.5% with very little variance.
18gMHRB x 0.005 = 90mgDMT
I cannot personally handle the tannins and do the extraction first. If it were me, I'd aim for about 30mg to start which would be around 6gMHRB.
I can't give much guidance on rue since I've only ever had traditional ayahuasca and pharmahuasca with pure harmine HCl of which 200mg seems to be plenty to inhibit my enzymes

MAO (mono-amine oxidase) oxidizes nuerochemicals and keeps them from building to dangerous levels in your body. It exists throughout your body including the stomach lining where it's also responsible for breaking down tyramine and other toxins ingested with food. When you ingest harmalas, they temporarily bind to the MAO, keeping them tied up allowing DMT to pass through the stomach and intestines and into your bloodstream. The harmalas that aren't bound up in MAO enzymes in the digestive tract enter the bloodstream and bind with MAO in other organs including the brain.
 
n0thing said:
ShamensStamen said:
Yeah perhaps try out some Moclobemide for oral DMT activation rather than Harmalas, and you'll see there shouldn't be any vomiting.

Have you tried this? Afaik this forum could use more experience reports on moclobemide. My experience is limited but feels quite clean but different from harmalas

Yeah i've had a few runs with it, it is cleaner than the Harmalas, no nausea, vomiting or body load, it's pretty transparent so you get to see what oral DMT and it's plants are like without the Harmala influence. It's not "huasca" then, but just oral Mimosa, Acacia, Chacruna, Chaliponga.
 
syberdelic said:
I know my credibility has been compromised by adding the extra decimal point above but;
My experience with MHRB and I'm sure many others can corroborate is 0.5% with very little variance.
Your credibility is very compromised as a lot of nexian (me included) had yield between 1 and 2% (up to 3% i read).

You might work on your extraction skills.
 
syberdelic said:
I know my credibility has been compromised by adding the extra decimal point above but;
My experience with MHRB and I'm sure many others can corroborate is 0.5% with very little variance.
18gMHRB x 0.005 = 90mgDMT
i think you are wrong about this syberdelic in most teks/posts here the yields with mimosa hostilis root bark are up to 2% and only when the root bark is bunk or you got trunk bark maybe or inner roots then the yields are lower than this
even on wikipedia it's said to contain 1% to 1.7% so definitely not 0.5%
it wouldn't be that famous with this yield compared to acacia and other plant sources..
 
Thanks syberdelic!

Looking at the range between 0,5-2% DMT
I still hardly ask myself right now what in the world
just stopped me from seriously calculating the right dose?

Although I'm confessing that math
has never been my favorite subject
I'm wondering that I put myself
in such danger of getting a serotonin syndrome!

Now I put everything into a note and will not
hesitate to ask you.if questions arrive next time!
Promised!

So!
Instead of getting any new insights in relationships
or even the whole universe it has finally been a lesson in 'math' for me...?

Yeah, I think I've finally figured out how to calculate
percentages!

A definitely unexpected lesson but ...
THANKS GUYS! ... more than welcome! ;-)

[Of course I'm happy to be still alive too!]
 
syberdelic said:
I know my credibility has been compromised by adding the extra decimal point above but;
My experience with MHRB and I'm sure many others can corroborate is 0.5% with very little variance.
18gMHRB x 0.005 = 90mgDMT
I cannot personally handle the tannins and do the extraction first. If it were me, I'd aim for about 30mg to start which would be around 6gMHRB.
I can't give much guidance on rue since I've only ever had traditional ayahuasca and pharmahuasca with pure harmine HCl of which 200mg seems to be plenty to inhibit my enzymes

MAO (mono-amine oxidase) oxidizes nuerochemicals and keeps them from building to dangerous levels in your body. It exists throughout your body including the stomach lining where it's also responsible for breaking down tyramine and other toxins ingested with food. When you ingest harmalas, they temporarily bind to the MAO, keeping them tied up allowing DMT to pass through the stomach and intestines and into your bloodstream. The harmalas that aren't bound up in MAO enzymes in the digestive tract enter the bloodstream and bind with MAO in other organs including the brain.


MHRB exraction I pretty reliably get about 1.5%
 
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