First time failed start pharma

[bacon9001]

Hi, new here...

I've been wanting to try spice for quite a while now and managed to find some. I first tried 30mg loaded in a bong with some weed, I chocked and couldn't finish the whole bowl (now knowing I should have used less weed). It hit me the moment I let it out. I decided to try another bowl this time with less weed with 30mg spice, WOW was not expecting that! I've done plenty of shrooms and LSD in my life but THAT was something different.

Sadly, the taste of plastic was too much, In both attempts it was too overwhelming and I think it took away from the experience.

I want to try pharma but not having much luck with it.

I've managed to get hold of some X5 syrian rue extract, says one capsule (350mg) is equivalent to 5g of seeds.

My first attempt at pharma, I took one syrian rue extract capsule (350mg) and then 20 mins later I took a capsule of 40mg spice. After a couple of hours nothing seemed to happen. Suspecting that the capsules and their slow release might have something to do with it.

The next day I decided to try again, this time using Orange Juice without capsules. I broke open one of the syrian rue capsules and emptied the contents in to about a shots worth of orange juice and drank it. After 20 minutes I emptied another capsules worth of syrian rue in to a shots worth orange juice and also added 40mg of spice and swirled the glass to mix it up and drank the brew.

After about 1 hour I was having slight effects, things seemed to have a much more colorful hue but unsure at this point if it was the rue or the spice? I decided to take another 40mg in OJ with another capsules worth of rue but an hour, two hour later nothing seemed to change.

Reading the threads that's a lot of rue compared to what others seem to have but I wanted to ensure I was saturated with it to give the spice a good chance (I don't seem to get negative effects from rue so thought it would be fine). But even with all that nothing much of anything really happened.

There's probably something im missing, what have I done wrong?

Should I assume I need more than 80mg? Could the rue "extract" be worthless?

Unsure what to make of this, 30mg smoked knocked me on my arse!

Thanks!

 

[Sabnock1990]

You need to wait a little longer, 20 minutes after Harmalas/Rue/Caapi isn't ideally enough time for the Harmalas to inhibit gut MAO-A before the DMT is consumed, so try waiting 30 minutes, 45 minutes, an hour after the Harmalas and then take your DMT. Ime the gut's MAO-A inhibition seems most potent at an hour into the Harmalas, but MAO-A inhibition can happen a little less potently around 30 to 45 minutes in, but plenty enough time for things to be absorbed. If you take DMT past ime say an hour and fifteen minutes into the Harmalas, around an hour and 15 minutes to an hour and 30 minutes the gut's transient MAO-A inhibition can start waning, and by two full hours into the Harmalas gut MAO-A is no longer inhibited so any DMT consumed past say an hour and a half to two hours into the Harmalas won't be orally active unless more Harmalas are either pre-dosed again 30 minutes to an hour before the DMT, or unless the Harmalas are consumed at the same time as the DMT. Traditional Ayahuasca and quite a few folks around here seem to have a bit better results with dosing them at the same time, but i think they're moreso just fast metabolizers of Harmalas due to having higher amounts of CYP2D6 liver enzymes which would metabolize out the Harmalas at a faster rate, which would also reduce duration and the onset and unfolding of Harmala effects, whereas i think most people would do better giving the Harmalas 30 minutes to an hour before the DMT to go ahead and get in the system so that when the DMT is consumed it's 100% bioavailable and orally active. Ime taking the DMT an hour into the Harmalas is best, at least in liquid or extract form, whereas if i consume a few grams of Mimosa root powder capsules, i find it best to take them 30 minutes into the Harmalas as to account for the slower digestion of and absorption from the plant material, whereas tea and extract is pretty quickly absorbed. As for capsules, they don't really take but just a moment to dissolve, maybe if one doesn't have much stomach acid it may dissolve slightly more slowly but ime capsules are quick dissolving like within a couple or so minutes, so i would say take the Rue extract in a capsule, give it 30 minutes to an hour but i'd recommend trying an hour, and then take the DMT dissolved into liquid, and you'll get there before you even know it lol. Some people report that taking the DMT an hour into the Harmalas causes them to purge a bit too early and they waste their dose, so they prefer more like 30 to 45 minutes to give the DMT a little extra time to fully get absorbed. Helpful tip, if you want a gentler/smoother onset/come up, sip on the DMT liquid for approx 10 minutes, by sipping on the DMT you can lessen the intensity of the come up which provides a much gentler transition while maintaing powerful effect.

 

[bacon9001]

You need to wait a little longer, 20 minutes after Harmalas/Rue/Caapi isn't ideally enough time for the Harmalas to inhibit gut MAO-A before the DMT is consumed, so try waiting 30 minutes, 45 minutes, an hour after the Harmalas and then take your DMT. Ime the gut's MAO-A inhibition seems most potent at an hour into the Harmalas, but MAO-A inhibition can happen a little less potently around 30 to 45 minutes in, but plenty enough time for things to be absorbed. If you take DMT past ime say an hour and fifteen minutes into the Harmalas, around an hour and 15 minutes to an hour and 30 minutes the gut's transient MAO-A inhibition can start waning, and by two full hours into the Harmalas gut MAO-A is no longer inhibited so any DMT consumed past say an hour and a half to two hours into the Harmalas won't be orally active unless more Harmalas are either pre-dosed again 30 minutes to an hour before the DMT, or unless the Harmalas are consumed at the same time as the DMT. Traditional Ayahuasca and quite a few folks around here seem to have a bit better results with dosing them at the same time, but i think they're moreso just fast metabolizers of Harmalas due to having higher amounts of CYP2D6 liver enzymes which would metabolize out the Harmalas at a faster rate, which would also reduce duration and the onset and unfolding of Harmala effects, whereas i think most people would do better giving the Harmalas 30 minutes to an hour before the DMT to go ahead and get in the system so that when the DMT is consumed it's 100% bioavailable and orally active. Ime taking the DMT an hour into the Harmalas is best, at least in liquid or extract form, whereas if i consume a few grams of Mimosa root powder capsules, i find it best to take them 30 minutes into the Harmalas as to account for the slower digestion of and absorption from the plant material, whereas tea and extract is pretty quickly absorbed. As for capsules, they don't really take but just a moment to dissolve, maybe if one doesn't have much stomach acid it may dissolve slightly more slowly but ime capsules are quick dissolving like within a couple or so minutes, so i would say take the Rue extract in a capsule, give it 30 minutes to an hour but i'd recommend trying an hour, and then take the DMT dissolved into liquid, and you'll get there before you even know it lol. Some people report that taking the DMT an hour into the Harmalas causes them to purge a bit too early and they waste their dose, so they prefer more like 30 to 45 minutes to give the DMT a little extra time to fully get absorbed. Helpful tip, if you want a gentler/smoother onset/come up, sip on the DMT liquid for approx 10 minutes, by sipping on the DMT you can lessen the intensity of the come up which provides a much gentler transition while maintaing powerful effect.

Thanks for that, I’ve been confused about the timing between MAOI and spice. I’ve been lead to think that waiting more than 30 mins after ingesting the MAOI is too long.

Planning on trying again tonight, I’ll wait an hour after MAOI and then try the spice, going to try 100mg this time.

I’ll let you know how it goes!

Thanks!

 

[bacon9001]

Ok, just taken one of the capsules of rue, going to give it 30 mins and then take another one and then on the 1hr mark take the spice!

Hoping this will help overlap it and give me better coverage, I’ll let you know how it goes!

 

[bacon9001]

I took the 100mg, but nothing much of anything really happened, had some slight visuals but hard to make out what they were.

I took one 350mg capsule and then another 30 mins later and then 100mg spice 1hr after the first rue capsule.

Surely that should have provided good coverage?

Unsure what to make of it, could it be the rue? Maybe it’s bunk?

Maybe 100mg spice isn’t enough for me? Seriously considering doubling it.

 

[Varallo]

So did you actually feel the rue? 5 grams should be sufficient for a strong experience without any dmt.

My tip would be to first dial in on the harmalas and then slowly start adding the dmt do not take a 100mg. For me I found my window is between 30 minutes and an hour. But I also found that I estimate the timing a bit based on the feeling I get from the harmalas.

So don’t give up, when I started out I remember it took a couple of tries to figure out what worked for me.

 

[bacon9001]

So did you actually feel the rue? 5 grams should be sufficient for a strong experience without any dmt.

My tip would be to first dial in on the harmalas and then slowly start adding the dmt do not take a 100mg. For me I found my window is between 30 minutes and an hour. But I also found that I estimate the timing a bit based on the feeling I get from the harmalas.

So don’t give up, when I started out I remember it took a couple of tries to figure out what worked for me.

The rue extract capsules I have say they’re X5, one capsule (350mg) is equivalent to 5g seeds apparently, I had two of those yesterday.

I’m guessing that the extract is a mixture of different alkaloids, maybe I need to take more rue?

I could feel the rue (things slightly more colourful, slight body buzz, a ringing in my ear) about 30 mins after taking the first capsule.

The 100mg spice didn’t make much of a difference.

Not sure if related, but maybe? I don’t get much of an effect from 2g shrooms, I usually take 5 soaked in lemon, could it be possible I’m just nore tolerant to this kind of stuff? But again I understand that it’s different and experience of one doesn’t necessary mean anything…

The only other thing I can think of is cannabis? I smoked half a spliff an hour before taking the rue, could the THC block the effects of it?

 

[Varallo]

Hmm that’s somewhat surprising, I’m not too sure how to proceed, other than getting the harmalas right and then start adding the dmt, I have become very sensitive to Aya and DMT to the point where I can break through at 18 mg. So that makes me feel I’m unable to advise you on dose, what I can say is that at an higher dose of harmalas I see long tracers when waiving my hand, have some difficulty with communication and am drifting in and out of vivid dreams. So in this state only a little dmt goes a long way.

Personally I like to start with a solid dose of harmalas and then a low dose of DMT, then depending on how trip develops I add a breakthrough dose of DMT, and keep doing that until I feel like I have had enough. This gives one allot of control over the intensity of the experience and for me it’s a way to really explore.

Another approach could be to make a traditional brew and basically drink every 20 minutes until you have enough, I’m not sure if that’s what I recommend since it can lead to very strong experiences where any kind of control is very far away.

Maybe other people who need more than usual can chime in and help out with dosage.

 

[Transform]

Sadly, the taste of plastic was too much, In both attempts it was too overwhelming and I think it took away from the experience.

This does rather sound like you were burning your DMT a bit, which is only to be expected if you were combusting ganja with it.

The rue extract capsules I have say they’re X5, one capsule (350mg) is equivalent to 5g seeds apparently

Well, the arithmetic there is completely off! 5x equivalent of 5g seeds would be 1g extract. These extracts are a bit of a roulette game until you've dialed in the dose. There's no way up front that you can tell whether that 350mg contains the alkaloidal equivalent of 5g of seeds (which it doesn't sound like, from your description). Just bear in mind, the equivalent to 1g of seeds in a 5x extract would be 200mg of extract, so 350mg of it equates to 1.75g seeds. The equivalent of 5g seeds would, of course, be 1g extract, at 5x.

You may as well be working with the seeds.

"He who packs your capsules controls your destiny!"

 

[bacon9001]

Hmm that’s somewhat surprising, I’m not too sure how to proceed, other than getting the harmalas right and then start adding the dmt, I have become very sensitive to Aya and DMT to the point where I can break through at 18 mg. So that makes me feel I’m unable to advise you on dose, what I can say is that at an higher dose of harmalas I see long tracers when waiving my hand, have some difficulty with communication and am drifting in and out of vivid dreams. So in this state only a little dmt goes a long way.

Personally I like to start with a solid dose of harmalas and then a low dose of DMT, then depending on how trip develops I add a breakthrough dose of DMT, and keep doing that until I feel like I have had enough. This gives one allot of control over the intensity of the experience and for me it’s a way to really explore.

Another approach could be to make a traditional brew and basically drink every 20 minutes until you have enough, I’m not sure if that’s what I recommend since it can lead to very strong experiences where any kind of control is very far away.

Maybe other people who need more than usual can chime in and help out with dosage.

Thanks, I think I might try that and gradually introduce it, I think maybe assuming some kind of tolerance is silly at this point until I can get the harmalas right.

This does rather sound like you were burning your DMT a bit, which is only to be expected if you were combusting ganja with it.


Well, the arithmetic there is completely off! 5x equivalent of 5g seeds would be 1g extract. These extracts are a bit of a roulette game until you've dialed in the dose. There's no way up front that you can tell whether that 350mg contains the alkaloidal equivalent of 5g of seeds (which it doesn't sound like, from your description). Just bear in mind, the equivalent to 1g of seeds in a 5x extract would be 200mg of extract, so 350mg of it equates to 1.75g seeds. The equivalent of 5g seeds would, of course, be 1g extract, at 5x.

You may as well be working with the seeds.

"He who packs your capsules controls your destiny!"

Ahh, so you mean I’m not having enough? Would I need to have 1g of the extract?

 

[bacon9001]

Tempted to try again tonight

 

[Sakkadelic]

hi bacon9001,

as Transform pointed out it sounds like your rue extract is off. and you need to get that right to properly and safely do pharma.

I suggest purifying the extract yourself and accurately dosing. you can do a simple manske and get a reasonably pure extract. it is as simple as mixing your "5x" in hot water and few drops of vinegar, filtering, saturating the solution with salt, reheating and letting it cool down, then harmala xtals will crash out.

another simple option would be to basify the solution with sodium carbonate and collecting the freebase.

I'd be happy to help you with the details if you decide to purify the rue extract.

 

[bacon9001]

hi bacon9001,

as Transform pointed out it sounds like your rue extract is off. and you need to get that right to properly and safely do pharma.

I suggest purifying the extract yourself and accurately dosing. you can do a simple manske and get a reasonably pure extract. it is as simple as mixing your "5x" in hot water and few drops of vinegar, filtering, saturating the solution with salt, reheating and letting it cool down, then harmala xtals will crash out.

another simple option would be to basify the solution with sodium carbonate and collecting the freebase.

I'd be happy to help you with the details if you decide to purify the rue extract.

Thanks, that would be very helpful! I think sorting the harmalas out will help!

Do you have a step by step to do this?

 

[Sabnock1990]

Yeah you may wanna make sure of the Harmala content of the Rue extract. If the timing difference didn't help, then it's definitely the Harmalas you gotta get right. I recommend either Rue seed itself (capsules of seed powder, or whole seeds brewed into tea), or a freebased or hcl Harmala extract, whereas those x extracts of Rue are kinda hit and miss from what i've seen, you can dissolve the x extract into some warm/hot vinegar water and then base it with washing soda water and if there's Harmala content there, it'll precipitate out as the freebased extract which can be filtered off, dried, and then weighed out for a dose and used. Once you have your Harmalas for sure, take a good dose, wait 30 minutes to an hour, and then dose the DMT (no need to take extra Harmalas with the DMT, just take one Harmala dose and 30 minutes to an hour later take the DMT).

 

[Sakkadelic]

Thanks, that would be very helpful! I think sorting the harmalas out will help!

Do you have a step by step to do this?

yes, thinking about it a bit more now, i think the soda carb approach would be better to start with as it is easy to tell whether the "5x" has significant amount of harmalas or not. here's some more details:

i will refer to some pictures from this thread so you know what to expect.

1. assuming the "5x" is in powder form and prepared by concentrating a rue tea, the harmala alkaloids should be already extracted. so the first step is to redissolve them in water. so mix the powder with some water and a tablespoon of white distilled vinegar and let it simmer for 15 mins. let it cool down and for the insolubles to settle at the bottom. then filter the solution. you can do a second boil of the insolubles or cook it longer if you feel not all alkaloids are extracted.

2. prepare a concentrated solution of sodium carbonate, you should be able to dissolve around 20g in 100 ml of water.

3. now you can add a few drops of the soda carb solution into the harmala solution, immediately you should see harmala freebase crashing out and redissolving. then keep adding more of the soda carb solution until the freebase is fully crashed out and you stop seeing a reaction. (picture 1)

4. let the harmala freebase settle for a few hours and then decant most of the water (picture 7). after that you can do a water wash by adding fresh water and letting the freebase settle again and then decanting as much as possible of the water, the more water you remove the easier it will be to dry the extract (picture 10).

5. pour the wet freebase in a wide dish and dry it with a fan, once fully dry scrape and enjoy! (picture 11).

notes:
- with soda carb the water will always have a slight yellow color but that is completely fine, just make sure you add enough until no more reaction
- make sure you use sodium carbonate and not sodium bicarbonate, if you only have sodium bicarbonate, you can cook it for few mins on a stove top to transform it into sodium carbonate.

how much of the "5x" do you have and want to purify? i think if you took 2 350 mg pills and didn't feel it then you need at least a few grams of the "5x".