freedom from religion

[burnt]

I realized that I have been on an anti-religion rampage. Spreading it over the course of too many threads. Therefore I want to stop derailing peoples threads and leave my rants to this thread.

Many people here probably have noticed that I don't like religion (spirituality also falls under my umbrella of religion). I not only don't like religion I am actively against it in both my non real internet life and in my real human life.

My stance is that religion is complete and utter garbage and society as a whole should get rid of it. The reason I have this view point is long and complex and I couldn't possibly write it all out. I don't believe in forcing my view on people. I am libertarian so people have the right to worship and basically do whatever they want. But I also have the right to tell them they are stupid. I think religion is a negative force in the world. It may be a positive force in certain peoples lives but on the whole its destructive. Even the nicer religions like buddhism.

So if anyone wants to bring up reasons why they think religion is good or bad please do so here and I will *try* really hard to not invade other peoples threads just to poke at their religious beliefs for my own amusement.

 

['Coatl]

My stance is that religion is complete and utter garbage and society as a whole should get rid of it.

I totally disagree.

I think it's a rich and amazing story of the history of humanity and our interactions with what we perceive as "God". It's a huge beautiful and terrible picture with MANY, MANY lessons to learn.

It's only when religion becomes stubborn and ignorant and loses its touch with the original spirit of religion (the ecstatic experience and love for your fellow man), it's only when we get bogged down in the details, it is only when religion is hijacked for politics or personal gain does it become a negative force (and this could even happen to entheogens if we are not careful).

Do you not believe in "God"... or at least in "something"?

I am libertarian so people have the right to worship and basically do whatever they want. But I also have the right to tell them they are stupid.

Same here.... and I think it is very arrogant and... well... foolish to think that the birds and the trees and the clouds and the sky all came into being by random chance. I think it is foolish to not believe in God (or at least something)... but (as you do) I also believe that you have the right to believe whatever you wish!

 

[Aegle]

I realized that I have been on an anti-religion rampage. Spreading it over the course of too many threads. Therefore I want to stop derailing peoples threads and leave my rants to this thread.

Many people here probably have noticed that I don't like religion (spirituality also falls under my umbrella of religion). I not only don't like religion I am actively against it in both my non real internet life and in my real human life.

My stance is that religion is complete and utter garbage and society as a whole should get rid of it. The reason I have this view point is long and complex and I couldn't possibly write it all out. I don't believe in forcing my view on people. I am libertarian so people have the right to worship and basically do whatever they want. But I also have the right to tell them they are stupid. I think religion is a negative force in the world. It may be a positive force in certain peoples lives but on the whole its destructive. Even the nicer religions like buddhism.

So if anyone wants to bring up reasons why they think religion is good or bad please do so here and I will *try* really hard to not invade other peoples threads just to poke at their religious beliefs for my own amusement.

Tibetan Buddhism is a way of life and a philosophy and gods aren't worshiped in Tibetan Buddhism either so how can it be counted as a religion. A religion asks for blind faith only, where as in Tibetan Buddhism its vital to question everything and every philosophy. All Buddhism is, is the study of the mind and consciousness. I don't believe there should be religion either all it does is create sheep and separation. I don't think there is a so called God, God is a representation of energy for me. This is my personal opinion if religion makes you happy great, each to their own :d


Much Peace


Much Peace

 

['Coatl]

Tibetan Buddhism is a way of life and a philosophy and gods aren't worshiped in Tibetan Buddhism either so how can it be counted as a religion.

That is silly, religion encompasses all sorts of different philosophies and spiritual paths. Don't try to act like your religion is better and then therefore... isn't a religion at all.

Tibetan Buddhism is just as much a religion as Gnostic Christianity is!

 

[HappyCamper]

The major thing is that it separates people from animals. An animal has no purpose in life but to eat, sleep, have offspring and die. Faith in something that makes life seem less pointless, than the thought that after that 70 or 80 years of life you just die and that's it. Especially if by your atheism you are a believer of spontaneous generation. But if you believe in creation, then that obligates you to some sort of gratefulness towards your creator.

 

[Aegle]

Nope ask any Tibetan Buddhist monk and he will tell you that its not a religion is a philosophy. Buddhists don't dictate that if you don't follow there doctrine you will suffer for eternity like other religions. Buddhism states clearly that each person has their own path and their own truth.


Much Peace

 

[Aegle]

Animals and people are one in the same we are all sentient beings and one has no reason to lift ones self above another :d


Much Peace

 

['Coatl]

Nope ask any Tibetan Buddhist monk and he will tell you that its not a religion is a philosophy. Buddhists don't dictate that if you don't follow there doctrine you will suffer for eternity like other religions. Buddhism states clearly that each person has their own path and their own truth.

What does that have to do with it not being a religion? Buddhism (like Taoism) is a religion!

Religion
re⋅li⋅gion–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

Source

 

[Aegle]

Ok I am Tibetan Buddhist and its miss classified all over the world as a religion when it clearly is not. Its a philosophy of the mind as i said.

Much Peace

 

['Coatl]

Like I said I'm a firm believer that people can think whatever they want.

In your mind you wish to elevate your "philosophy" above other religions because you see religion as a negative force (I'd imagine you were raised in a Christian nation)...

So your telling me that for you... Buddhism has nothing to do with the following-

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

???

 

[fractal rider]

i think that religion is good for some people in a way it gives people a meaning of life i myself are more spritual then religiuos but i dont think that is bad, i dont like it but people makes them happy sometime and you have the otherside to because of religion there are have been several bad things like dividing people even wars and conflict i think we cant judge if it is good or bad or if what they say is true or false i dont like the religion that much i like more the philoshophy of spirituality that we can take from that but i think we have to believe the things that make us happy thats the important thing i dont agree with religions but some of them have very intersting knowledge speccialy for me hinduism i like very much and is part of my life

 

[Aegle]

[quote='Coatl]Like I said I'm a firm believer that people can think whatever they want (even if it's wrong).

In your mind you wish to elevate your "philosophy" above other religions because you see religion as a negative force (I'd imagine you were raised in a Christian nation)...

So your telling me that for you... Buddhism has nothing to do with the following-

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

???
[/quote]

Ok i firstly think people cant be wrong when it comes to their personal belief system, there is the exact difference of our schools of thought that i was talking about. You cant say that i am wrong with my own personal belief system. Nope wrong again i don't believe my beliefs are above any one else's beliefs, you just assumed that because i stated that i feel Buddhism is a philosophy that i was putting Buddhism above other religions i was not. I wasn't raised in a Christian nation either. Yes indeed i am a set of beliefs concerning the cause Tibetan Buddhism is not a set of beliefs its fluid and i question and analyze everything nothing is set. My mind doesnt work within conformity.


Much Peace

 

['Coatl]

Well alright.

I wasn't raised in a Christian nation either.

Really? Where were you raised?

I guess your not from North or South America.... or Europe...

 

[Aegle]

[quote='Coatl]Well alright.

I wasn't raised in a Christian nation either.

Really? Where were you raised?

I guess your not from North or South America.... or Europe...
[/quote]

Please dont just assume things, you tend to do this a lot :shock:

Nope.

Much Peace

 

['Coatl]

Well tell us where your from that wasn't a Christian Nation?

Are there non-christian nations in North and South America?

 

[ohayoco]

[quote='Coatl]Are there non-christian nations in North and South America?[/quote]
Many. The Seneca nation. The Tuscarora nation. The Mohawk nation. Etc etc.
All nations have non-Christians in them. In the most opressive, they are in hiding... not only people of other religions such as Jews and pagans, but in greater numbers atheists who have had to keep their beliefs secret for thousands of years under Christian tyranny.

 

['Coatl]

Sure they have non-Christians... I was talking about a Nation that is not predominantly Christian (such as the United States which has many religous groups, but most a Christian).

Sometimes I think the reason there are some many atheist is because they grew up in Christian Nations.

 

[Aegle]

I am from South Africa and it was never a Christian nation until it was colonised, but even today traditional religions dominate the country Eg: Xhosas and Zulus believe their traditional beliefs still


Much Peace

 

[burnt]

My atheism comes from science and education. I can't really understand religious view points anymore. I used to very much be the opposite but those ideas are all meaningless to me now. I have many experiences and knowledgeable individuals to thank for allowing me to come to terms with finally saying goodbye to the idea of a god with a personality. I think more and more people will gradually follow the more they see how science tears apart most of what religion claims. Psychedelics have also solidified my view points in ways that are a bit complex to explain but I have tried in many posts. Maybe I will again later.

It's only when religion becomes stubborn and ignorant and loses its touch with the original spirit of religion (the ecstatic experience and love for your fellow man), it's only when we get bogged down in the details, it is only when religion is hijacked for politics or personal gain does it become a negative force (and this could even happen to entheogens if we are not careful).

Do you not believe in "God"... or at least in "something"?

Well no I don't believe in a "god". I believe things that have been proven substantially. God certainly has not. Even if there was a god (and Im going to steal a dawkin's argument) who made god?

Why do you associate ecstatic experience and love for your fellow man with religion? Morals certainly seem to have evolved before religion as did ecstatic experience. Morals don't need religion nor does ecstatic experiences. Claiming they are religious is assuming religion or any spiritual belief has some shred of credability which I am saying it doesn't.

Same here.... and I think it is very arrogant and... well... foolish to think that the birds and the trees and the clouds and the sky all came into being by random chance. I think it is foolish to not believe in God (or at least something)... but (as you do) I also believe that you have the right to believe whatever you wish!

Natural selection and evolution have a massive amount of evidence piled behind them. God has none. So how can my view be arrogant or foolish? I would think its the other way around.

Tibetan Buddhism is a way of life and a philosophy and gods aren't worshiped in Tibetan Buddhism either so how can it be counted as a religion. A religion asks for blind faith only, where as in Tibetan Buddhism its vital to question everything and every philosophy. All Buddhism is, is the study of the mind and consciousness. I don't believe there should be religion either all it does is create sheep and separation. I don't think there is a so called God, God is a representation of energy for me. This is my personal opinion if religion makes you happy great, each to their own Very happy

Well I do have to give buddhism some credit because its quite passive compared to many other religions. But the reason I consider it a religion is because it relies on subjective experience and at the end of the day faith to confirm its system. There is no proof for many of the things buddhists say and they make no effort to prove it. They even mock objective analysis. I think subjective experience cannot prove or really answer anything because the mind is a simulator that is capable of malfunctioning. It is capable of creating real delusions.

BTW my partner is from SA aegle I love your country! Its really beautiful and many of the people I met there were awesome.

 

[HappyCamper]

Animals and people are one in the same we are all sentient beings and one has no reason to lift ones self above another

I will have to disagree. It is imprinted in the human brain. From whatever century you are from or part of the world, there has always been some sort of longing of serving a higher being.

Buddhists don't dictate that if you don't follow there doctrine you will suffer for eternity like other religions.

That's what I hate about all of it. If you are going to claim that your religion is based on the Bible then at least open a Bible for once in your life. In Romans 6:23 it says that the price for sin is death. Not hell, not purgatory, just death. There is no need to scare people