Friend had a seizure after smoking spice!

[SWIMfriend]

@tropane: I'm glad to hear that DMT is not seizure inducing for you. It's not necessarily true, however, that it would then be safe for ALL epileptics. Sensitivity could correlate to the actual location of the seizure-inducing area of the brain--which of course varies between sufferers.

Buddy, can I please point out that I intentionally put:
"Realize the following is just SWIM's experience before replying please..."

Yep, just his experience, and the experience of others he knows like him.
What I put in quotes though, I meant.. SWIM's not saying that everyone's mind is like his.. Not by any means.

I just wanted to make it clear to anyone who wasn't clear about it.

 

[Nordic]

Please see this clip by Dough Stanhope, discussing doing DMT with Joe Rogan, turns out he also had a seizure.

 

[SWIMfriend]

Please see this clip by Dough Stanhope, discussing doing DMT with Joe Rogan, turns out he also had a seizure.

A seizure is a specific thing produced by totally disorganized neuronal firing. Sometimes people "in extremis" will tighten groups of muscles and twist or move in strange ways--but that's not a seizure.

One way to verify an actual seizure is if tongue biting occurs. Tongue biting demonstrates that the physical movements were totally uncoordinated. I don't think the video relates the occurrence of an actual seizure. I DO think the friend of the OP of this friend DID have a well-defined seizure.

 

[Espiridion]

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14386

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weigh safely and what a deal!
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J
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[acolon_5]

Almost every medicine does have side effects on a small % of the population.

If flashing lights set of a seizure than DMT sure would be able to do that as well.

If it was not a seizure, than it is just possible that your friend had a very bad reaction to an abnormally high dose of spice.

Either way, it is something that should not be taken lightly. Your friend should see a doctor as soon as possible, IMHO of course.

 

[69ron]

...DMT could trigger it. LSD can also.

I've known people who cannot use LSD bacause of it. Even a small amount of LSD would trigger it...

I'm betting that those people are generally known to be susceptible to seizures, i.e., they are in fact epileptic and hadn't realized it (perhaps only suffering petit mal seizures), or haven't told their friends--who believe that the seizure was a "new" phenomenon for the person.

One of the guys I knew never had seizures before taking LSD and was never diagnosed as an epileptic. A few other psychedelics would also trigger them.

I think this is where the myth (well mostly a myth) of LSD containing strychnine comes from. A very small percentage of people get seizures from it which sort of looks like strychnine poisoning. It’s really scary when it happens. For an epileptic, it’s not that scary because the people around them usually know they suffer from seizures, but when it happens to a “normal” person, it’s really scary.

I’ve seen this personally with 2 people. One was a known epileptic, the other was not.

 

[SWIMfriend]

The main point I'm trying to make (trying to DEFINE) is that a seizure is a SPECIFIC and well-defined physiologic state--that is also potentially very dangerous, and which shows that something very bad and unhealthy is going on in the brain.

Almost all posters with lots of experience have described at least SOME occasions of extreme terror and feelings of death--quite possibly associated with physical and vocal manifestations that they might not be aware they demonstrated. But THAT is not a seizure.

People here are very BRAVE, generally, and have "toughed out" some truly overwhelming psychological minefields. I just want to point out the DIFFERENCE between being brave and tough, and acknowledging the danger of the REAL neuropathological state known as a seizure.

Be "strong" when facing the unknown--but be SENSIBLE when facing real health issues. Seizures are serious, demonstrate that someone's HEALTH is at risk, and should be cause for STOPPING any kind of tripping--and for seeking medical advice.

 

[SanMan]

hmm

 

[Xstacy]

...DMT could trigger it. LSD can also.

I've known people who cannot use LSD bacause of it. Even a small amount of LSD would trigger it...

I'm betting that those people are generally known to be susceptible to seizures, i.e., they are in fact epileptic and hadn't realized it (perhaps only suffering petit mal seizures), or haven't told their friends--who believe that the seizure was a "new" phenomenon for the person.

One of the guys I knew never had seizures before taking LSD and was never diagnosed as an epileptic. A few other psychedelics would also trigger them.

I think this is where the myth (well mostly a myth) of LSD containing strychnine comes from. A very small percentage of people get seizures from it which sort of looks like strychnine poisoning. It’s really scary when it happens. For an epileptic, it’s not that scary because the people around them usually know they suffer from seizures, but when it happens to a “normal” person, it’s really scary.

I’ve seen this personally with 2 people. One was a known epileptic, the other was not.

I am going to have to disagree without definitive proof. 1 out of a million people is not enough for me to even think that it is remotely possible, let alone without data. As stated before, your friend had a problem BEFORE the drugs and the drugs simply showed that he had a problem. Dont ever confuse that with, the drug caused it. I checked with webmd and hell alcohol withdraw seems to cause seizures. I need stats and not from some law enforcement website spewing bullshit propaganda to scare the sheep that are too stupid to think for themselves.

All drugs are bad, cause death, retardation, low sperm count, kill brain cells, shrink your penis, cause blindness, flashbacks, body odor, premature birth, low birth weight, the flu, arthritus, bi-polar disorder, eating disorder, shin splints, aches and pains, trouble breathing, increased heart rate, dwarfism, elephant-man syndrom, need I say more?

Do not believe everything you read on the internets.

 

[jamie]

I once broke through completely with psilocybin, carrier wave and all...and..when i came out I was having what i thought was a seizure.. I only broke through briefly, things were building up and getting really intense, and then I heard the roaring sound and the pineal upload and I was there..but I came back quickly and was convulsing uncontrollably to the rythm of the buzzing, but only for about 4 or 5 seconds..it was the only time this ever happened and scared the shit out of me. I fored myself to eat small doses often after that out of the fear i would NEVER touch them again. Looking back, I am confident that it was not a seizure, but more of a painful and violent tuning..

you're friends situations sounds much worse and more dangerous and I would go to a doctor. Obviousily they took more than they needed, so that may be it..but I would want to be sure.

 

[hexagonomicon]

psychedelics do increase the risk of convulsions. My friends told my I was convulsing on my high dose trip, but I wouldn't say I had a seizure.

People don't really want to admit that psychedelics have this risk, but I've seen several people seizure/convulse on psychedelics. Comes with the territory.

Be safe and refrain from psychedelics for now.

I am not sure where you heard this but could you please give a source for this statement. This does not seem to be in the literature and I have never heard this before (not saying it is not true). Maybe in certain susceptible individuals? SWIM saw a drunk person black out for a second while on DMT.
It was scary as SWIM was intoxicated as well but he was fine after a few seconds. He also vomited after he blacked out. Most hallucinogens are relatively safe drugs if used within the recommended dosage range of course at over doses strange side effects can become common and death can occur with several.

I'm not sure that there has been any research done specifically on seizures or convulsions and psychedelics (since most research in this area has been banned), but if you look into the neurological mechanisms of psychedelics it's not an unreasonable notion. Psychedelics increase CNS activity and sometimes it just gets out of control. I have to agree with the previous posters in making a distinction between convulsions and seizures. When I say "convulsions" I just mean tightening of muscles, intense body tremors, eyes rolling into the back of the head, irregular breathing, etc. I think of this phenomena as being related to "jaw clenching" but much more extreme. And high dosages aren't necessary for this either.

I know that anecdotal reports aren't "proof" but I've seen at least three people have convulsions off of pretty low doses of psychedelics. I think you'll easily find a lot of people on these boards who have seen this happen before. There is wisdom from experience and any experienced tripper will tell you that sometimes people have convulsions while tripping.

I'm not going to speculate about the physiological causes or medical risks associated with these "convulsions" but they do happen more frequently than most psychonauts would like to admit.

 

[Garulfo]

Convulsing and seizure are very different things indeed. SWIM often had convulsions from big doses (even not so big).
It was nothing to worry he guess. But bitting ones own tong and pissing are clearly seizure symptoms.
A head scan is highly recomended (ne need to say he was under DMT).
Your friend may have a tumor that would not be detectable in normal state, but the DMT triggerered it.


Of course he may have nothing serious, just a overreacted from high dose, but better do a scan.