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Friend's first extraction w/ Noman's tek.. low yield I think

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CatMolecule

Rising Star
Hey all. My friend's computer broke so I'm helping him out. He has some questions.. He obtained 130g of MHRB pre-powdered (very fine, like flour he says). I asked him if it was the inner side of the bark but he doesn't know. Told me it came pre-grounded and pinkish. He used Noman's tek w/ VM&P naptha, lye and tap water. This was done in two batches.. He basically used the exact numbers from Noman's tek (15ml of water for each gram of bark, etc) BUT! mistake #1: He wasn't thinking straight and forgot that a milliliter of naptha is not necessarily 1 gram. Please read on.. batch #1 Added 65g of lye to ~975ml of water. Stirred vigorously until it all dissolved. Added 65g bark, shook jar, observed thick foam on top (1-2") and let sit in dark place for 1-2 hours. Added 65g (not ml) of naptha and turned jar end over end for 1 min, 3 times. No emulsion formed, as expected. Decanted naptha out and placed in a collection jar in the freezer. Some lye got into the jar due to use of garbage equipment. Repeated this 3 times. So he had 3 collection jars in the freezer, and then added naptha again to the main bark jar and let it sit for about 36 hours, agitating occasionally. Observed some crystals forming 24 hours later (didn't check before that).. didn't see much so he let them sit for longer. In the meantime, took naptha out of main bark jar and put into another collection jar. Next day, all jars had crystals, and the last one which had the naptha in for 1 day instead of 5 minutes had the most crystals. Scraped crystals off bottom/sides of jar and poured naptha/lye onto a coffee filter. Washed w/ 10% ammonia when appropriate (too much lye). Before discarding the base, he did another naptha pull, keeping the naptha in for about 2 days. Not enough crystals formed to encourage another pull. Base was discarded. Coffee filters were left to dry, then crystals were scraped off each one, combined and stored for later bioassay. The big question.. his yield? Less than 0.1g is all he could tell me because that's as low as his scale will go. It looked to be about the size of a pencil eraser (is that 50-60mg?), but it was probably way less due to impurities. Batch #2 Same numbers and procedure as above, but did 6 naptha pulls. Last 3 pulls were from naptha kept in base for 12-24 hours each. He heated up naptha and base for the first pull to see if it would make a significant difference -- it didn't. He was confused as to why he ran out of naptha unexpectedly (wanted more pulls goddamn it!).. wondering where it went, he remembered that he's been measuring naptha VOLUME using a SCALE! It's likely he was adding way more naptha than he should have been because 1ml naptha is less than 1g, from his experience here. Batch #2's yield was clearly more than before, but was not weighed at all. My sometimes silly friend can measure yield if he finds a household substance w/ the same weight as spice; Salt or something. He will measure out 1.0g of that on his scale, and then divide it in halves counting down until he reaches what looks to be equivalent to the tiny amount of spice he has. Licked finger indicates a salty taste, likely just lye. Spice is shiny, crystalline, white. Some yellowish because he decided to skip ammonia washes on two poor pulls to at least salvage something. Overall quality seems ok.. but he was going for quantity. Other than mistake #1, what went wrong here? What is a decent yield from 65g of MHRB, taking into account mechanical loss? Had he gotten whole bark, would the yield have been significantly higher? (he knows NOW that most pre-powdered bark is outer) No bioassay yet.. he says he's waiting on a way to measure out an exact dosage.
 
The smaller the quantities used at a time, the more loss will happend from "mechanical" loss. Next time work directly with 130g (or more). Also if you think that some naphta was trap in the soup, you can add more water+lye and easily see if you 'recover' a layer of naphta.
 
Mi amigo fiel did a little taste test today. Just wanted to see if his little crystals are active. He has never tried DMT before. A tiny amount about the size of a match head was placed into a test tube. A plastic hose was put into the test tube near the bottom. Test tube was placed over flame and when the magic inside turned into vapor, it was quickly inhaled in one big hit through the plastic tube. One thing concerns him.. The smoke was very harsh/"sour" and today his throat (back of his mouth) is still painful a little. Feels burned. This is due to lye in the product or this is the nature of DMT or vaporization? At the time, he couldn't feel much pain because he was on 10mg of oxycodone (but has a tolerance, as he uses it as prescribed daily to deal with leg pain from a recent surgery).. On to the psychological effects.... Took the hit and sat down. First, he said he felt light-headedness, uneasiness, anxiety. Almost just like the coming up of a shroom trip for this dude. He closed his eyes and tried to relax, but in his head he was jumping for joy that his spice and makeshift vaporizer worked. He opened his eyes a few seconds later and was amazed at how bright the room has gotten. He advised himself against running to the mirror to check his pupils, for fear of tripping (literally) and hitting his head on the sharp corner of his marble counter top. Physiologically, just what people usually list down.. elevated heart beat (although it somewhat felt like it was just in my head?) and slight loss of motor function (placebo?) He said he felt like he went from sober to coming up on shrooms in a few seconds. The effects were as expected and seem to have lasted about as long as he remained awake (30 min). He was unable to get some sleep because he had these strange (not good or bad or scary) 'day dreams' or 'visions' in his head when he closed his eyes, but his oxy always does this if taken too late, causing him sleep paralysis and all.. Woke up feeling normal except for his throat bothering him. Can somebody please explain this to him, as he's annoying me by continuously complaining about it. Thanks..
 
[quote:0fe2a8f430]The smoke was very harsh/"sour"[/quote:0fe2a8f430] Normal. But it improves when you improves your smoking technique. [quote:0fe2a8f430] and today his throat (back of his mouth) is still painful a little. Feels burned. This is due to lye in the product or this is the nature of DMT or vaporization? [/quote:0fe2a8f430] Normal. Lye can not vaporize at low temp. [quote:0fe2a8f430]Physiologically, just what people usually list down.. elevated heart beat [/quote:0fe2a8f430] Normal in the firs seconds (also normal when you hold down air) [quote:0fe2a8f430](although it somewhat felt like it was just in my head?) and slight loss of motor function (placebo?) [/quote:0fe2a8f430] No placebo, theses are also standard effects with 'low' doses. Don't worry, everything seems on way. Just see if your friend can improve his smoking device. Check the numerous smoking tek threads here. Many people prefer the 'sandwich' method but my friend prefer the light bulb freebase pipe because he thinks it's a better device to avoid wasting precious spice of GOD.
 
Noobs and STB-teks - are the combination I keep lamenting about. Never mind the facts about NOT using powdered MHRB in an STB, that would be a nominal noob-error. Allowing undissolved lye pellets to be present is imo, way worse of a noob-error. Often the STB+Noob combination ends in "why does my mouth burn" ... "where's the yield..?" etc etc ... Surely I'm not the only one noticing that.? I'm not trying to 'scold' you CatMolecule, or dump anything negative on your pursuit of dmt - I'm observing the outcome of the STB tek in your hands, don't take anything I say 'personally' .. ok !?. And let me ask for everyone's experience with this - since when is it "normal" for dmt to "burn" even the day after smoking a miniscule hit !? That's not "normal' ! Catmolecule- Pure dmt feels like invisibly-smooth smoke when you vapourize it - velvety smooth ! Although some of us don't have "leather lungs" like swim, but it has never 'hurt' swim, or appeared harsh, just strange smelling when she exhales a mother-of-all-lungfulls where 50 mg disappeared in one toke. But, CatMolecule, it sounds like you are getting there with all this learning-by-experience. My opinion is (and a few others here will likley nod too), that you solubilize the precious MHRB's tryptamines in an acidic solution of demineralized water first, then filter. Then basify with a naphtha layer already in place on the acid extract, ready to recieve the dmt freebase as soon as you add a lye solution. The basifying step and 3 naphtha pulls should be done in 30 - 60 minutes, and 98% of the dmt will have sought refuge in the naphtha. Soak the ground-up MHRB in 2 more acid baths, and on these more dilute, acid extracts repeat the basifying etc ... 130 g MHRB should yield 1.0g dmt, which ever tek you master. But do carry on there CatMolecule, .. report all progress and bioassay results ! !
 
Is it just me or is STB supposed to be easier? Why do "noobs" have more trouble with STB than A/B? Probably because they never try A/B, they go straight to STB, so who's to say they wouldn't have problems with A/B as well? Probably more problems IMO. As far as DMT burning, you are correct El Ka Bong, it should go down very smooth, but if you smoke a lot (say >0.5) your lungs are going to feel like sacks of shit in the morning regardless of the tek.
 
[quote:7c18da2df2]since when is it "normal" for dmt to "burn" even the day after smoking a miniscule hit !? That's not "normal' [/quote:7c18da2df2] My friend said me it is perfectly 'normal' ! It all depends how you smoke it (smoking technique). He agrees that perfect crystall are smoother than yellow or brown stuff but even thoses pure crystals can 'burn'. He experienced just recently and he do not blame the spice but the fact that he 'closed' his throat while exhaling, making at this precise place a high concentration of dense smoke which burned strong for several minutes and he still feel uneasy the next day. Try the following experience (as you enjoy 'scientific' facts - like my friend) : place a pinch of lye in a glass tube and heat it with a lighter. At the best it will melt but certainly not vaporize. Another experience : place a pinch of pure crystals on your tongue or any sensitive mucosa and tell me that it does not 'burn' ? Sure it burns, not like lye because the feeling disapear after some time while lye would really burn and hurt for days. About the tek debat, my friend had only experimented STB but he agree that althought yield is good, recystallisation cost a lot in yield and he plan to compare with A/B asap. About the "noobs issue", a good idea would be to write a doc with the main 'traps' of each technique and then let people decide, noobs or not.
 
hmm i've never tried to vaporise lye, but i did try to dissolve it in shellite/naptha. even in boiling shellite, as in bubbling like boiling, not a single bit of lye was picked up by the shellite, it simply will not dissolve into shellite no matter what the given conditions (as far as i've experimented at least) - this leads me to believe that under standard circumstances there will never be amounts of lye in extracted dmt; big call but i'm pretty sure it's correct as far as burning, lye burning vs dmt burning, as a thought could it have something to do with the fact that dmt base pH is 8.86ish ? plus keeping in mind the temperature of the vaporised spice, even 99.9% clean spice will of course burn as by definition it is caustic and, inaccurate recrystallisation could lead to reduced yields / loss of spice. as a STB tek is essentially a B (as opposed to A/B for acid/base extractions), why not try a BAB to clean instead of recrystallisation? it would be something like: 1: perform standard STB tek, you finish with solvent+spice+gunk 2: to this, add an amount of pH 3 water (acetate, hydrochloride, etc..); shake, separate, repeat x 2, combine 3: basify the combined acid washes to pH 13, extract with solvent 4: FREEZE PRECIPITATE; sorry to shout but seriously, why would you evaporate? you're only guaranteeing the introduction of inherant solvent gunk that you would not end up with had you freeze precipitated ke?
 
... Catmolecule's probably still workin' at it; we can run off topic until Cats' return... Have we all tasted dmt vs lye..? That is a subjective test for purity, but I have never asked swim if she's vapourized NaOH .>>! That seems not worth the 'experiment' ... Naphtha is super-selective towards oils and dmt-freebase. That's the amazing thing about naphtha -just how selective it is towards dmt ! (Naphtha is mixed petroleum-ethers, right?). Swims efforts with freezer precip' used a glass coffee pot - easy to scrape. But this method seemed more 'lossy' and messy than just evaporating away all NP solvent. So that's the main 'advantage' of doing the A-B tek plus full-evap', swim says. You get pure dmt right away, with yellow oils pooling out separately too (tilt evap' tray a little). The yellow crystals are soaked in the fragrant MHRB oils - swim loves these ! So not intending to totally derail here (just idling along) - I'll just mention that swim has given up on 'cooking' and using all that heat to hasten extraction. Room temp acid-extraction takes longer (ie overnight vs a few hours), but it avoids damaging dmt or the 'Jungle Spices' (yuremamine etc ... ). Too much Heat and oxygen will destroy all the alkaloids, 'yuremamine' is more sensitive than dmt they say but both degrade with more heat and O2. Also heated naphtha picks up more lye than ANY cool NP solvent will.
 
Elka, Another experiment for you : evaporate 500 ml of naphta and tell me if there is really really nothing left, even a oily film. I bet there will ! That's why my friend prefer the freeze method, 10000% less naphta to evaporate.
 
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