Fumurate to Freebase Finally Easy!

[damiana]

EDIT: I think this would work best using warmish water.

Okay, I don't know about anyone else, but SWIM has always always had trouble with the conversion from salt to freebase. SWIM always seemed to lose some and it was always difficult and needed acetone or days to get the final product. So SWIM has been thinking for a while and he believes to have found a new easy way to do it. If others can confirm this then even better.

Here it is:

Step one, take dmt fumurate and add equal or more parts of sodium carbonate. (I think I read somewhere that 1:2 ratio fumurate to sodium C. is best but I'm not sure)

Step two, add a very small amount of water so the reaction will occur, this makes a paste.

Step three, let that completely dry, usually takes about twelve hours at room temperature.

Step four, add the dry powder to a coffee filter, then slowly add a small amount of water, making sure the powder is well crushed so that the water can take all the sodium carbonate away. Two more times allow water to run through the filter, but only a little is needed.

Step five, let the filter dry and collect what will be mostly dmt freebase.

A few notes: SWIM tried this before the paste was dry and it didn't work, SWIM lost 2 grams . It must dry first. Very easy, no acetone or evaporation needed. SWIM found all other teks to be more work in his opinion.

SWIM hasn't measure the weight of freebase to make sure he hasn't lost any, but will soon and update. Also if he didn't lose any, he will post pictures, since this may become a new easy tek.

damiana

EDIT and now updated as of 1/19/10: SWIM is currently working on an even better tek, this one will not yield dmt freebase but will be a tek to make changa or enhanced leaf from dmt fumurate without a loss of dmt during conversion, hopefully8) .

Here it is in brief:

Step one, same as above - (note, the weight of fumurate should be written down and divided by 1.3 to get theoretical weight of dmt freebase to be present in IPA later).

Step two, same as above.

Step three, same as above.

Step four, add dry and crushed powder to 99% IPA. Swirl until half of the powder has been dissolved(dmt freebase dissolves but not the sodium carbonate junk).

Step five, with a turkey baster or other such instrument(I forget the word for those things, hehe :lol, transfer the IPA, which may have some of the non-dissolved junk in it, into a filter. The filter will catch the sodium carbonate junk and the IPA will go into a collection dish.

Step six, add changa or enhanced leaf by desired ratio to collection dish(remember this ratio depends on how much fumurate was used to begin with, see step one). Use the freebase weight to get desired ratio for changa or enhanced leaf.

Step seven, let the IPA evaporate to get love in a bowl. Enjoy. :d

Note: SWIM has gotten the numbers back, turning 1.38 grams of dmt fumurate and getting only .5 grams freebase laced in the tea. Two possiblities, one, IPA didn't pull all of the freebase from the powder. Two, the 1.38 grams of dmt fumurate may have had excess fumuraic acid in it, making the actual dmt weight less then expect. SWIM will now try agian only this time he will make sure there is no excess fumaric acid in the mix. Fingers crossed.

 

[Jorkest]

nice idea man...thats wicked sweet! hope it turns out awesome..would be a nice way to freebase

 

[amor_fati]

Does the use of a filter really make it easier? SWIM always loathed coffee filters, himself. SWIM would also worry about the loss of particulates through and in the filter. How about crystallization? Does it crystallize right on the filter?

Had you seen this, by the way? Takes about an hour, requires no filtering.

 

[damiana]

I have seen that tek, I tried it and it didn't work at all for SWIM, I ended up losing a lot. The consistency of the paste to get it to stick to the pan was difficult, the water washed away freebase. The filter is easy, I was afraid of the particles getting stuck too, but that doesn't seem to be happening to the point where it's bad. It seems to crystallize right on the filter, give it a try.

 

[Oncewas]

Wouldn't it be equally as easy to add sodium carb to water + fumerate dmt, than put a minimal amount of naptha on top. Shake for a few minutes and let it sit for an hour. Pull naptha(evap or freeze precip), then enjoy?

 

[damiana]

Not sure mydriasis, I suppose theoretically the naphtha would pull the freebase dmt after the sodium carbonate water and dmt. The only thing with that is one has to go out and get naphtha, which is harder and more expensive to get then is water. Plus one would have to evap. the naphtha (smelly) or freeze precip (which only works with a specific amount of saturation). So all in all I think the water tek is easier.

But if you want to test that out go ahead. The tek I described takes all of around 15 hours to get freebase from fumurate.

 

[damiana]

SWIM just weighed the final freebase, according to his poorly done calculations, he didn't seem to lose any dmt. Here is his reasoning: SWIM had 2.6 grams of dried dmt freebase and sodium carbonate junk, this was added to filter and water was added. That dried, but was still a little wet, and weighed 1.3 grams. SWIM remembers he added a little bit more then 1:1 ratio sodium carbonate to fumurate. That means the water should take away a little more then half the weight. In this case it took away exactly half the weight, though the freebase was still a little wet. SWIM believes if he let it dry he would lose at least 300 mg making his freebase weigh 1 gram. That is about what it should be, SWIM is assuming that some sodium carbonate is still in the mix, and possibly a small amount of freebase dmt was lost as well(EDIT: SWIM found that precisely 300mg of sodium carbonate was left in the mix). All in all he thinks it went very well and was rather easy. Further conversions will be studied with better preparation and control, this one was kinda sloppy.

 

[damiana]

I just thought up a new idea. Sodium carbonate is insolube in 99% ipa. SO when making changa or enhanced leaf, SWIM could put the dmt freebase and sodium carbonate junk all into 99% IPA and then filter that through a coffee filter, leaving behind the sodium carbonate. SWIM realized this because he added his dmt freebase to 99% IPA and some of it didn't dissolve. He assumed that the stuff that didn't dissolve was extra sodium carbonate, so he filtered it. That will be bio-assayed later. And a new tek is in the making, straight to enhanced leaf tek. It could be called STEL tek, hehe.

Edit: The stuff that didn't dissolve was smoked and found to be non-active. It was sodium carbonate, weighing 300mg. That brings the dmt freebase to 1 gram, though with some water weight, SWIM is thinking this tek worked very well.

Next time SWIM will try the STEL tek, and give an update.

 

[amor_fati]

I have seen that tek, I tried it and it didn't work at all for SWIM, I ended up losing a lot. The consistency of the paste to get it to stick to the pan was difficult, the water washed away freebase. The filter is easy, I was afraid of the particles getting stuck too, but that doesn't seem to be happening to the point where it's bad. It seems to crystallize right on the filter, give it a try.

SWIM's perfectly willing to help out. Besides, SWIM would like feedback on the specifics in order to hone the tek. SWIM thought it up and did it right on the first try. The amount of water used should be quite minimal, so perhaps SWIM should indicate that it should be added dropwise? But if this works better for SWIY, then I suppose that's good enough.


As far as as the IPA thing goes, SWIM's been under the impression that that's how many have been making freebase and changa. It's use is practically identical to acetone, as well. For example: SWIM just recently used his last drop of acetone in his drytek THP conversion (potential leftovers to include the little bit in the water decanted from the first nontoxic conversion) and decided to ensure he got everything by using some leftover anhydrous IPA before tossing the powder. He didn't do it to experiment, he just thought it was normal practice.

 

[damiana]

^For some reason your tek just was risky for SWIM. Even drop wise, which is what SWIM did, didn't seem to make things easier. Though I can see how it works just fine theoretically, SWIM thinks a more sure-fire way to do it could be conceived.

SWIM's filter tek worked so that he could weigh the final dmt but SWIM doesn't even need to do that anymore with the IPA tek, since SWIM will only ever be making enhanced leaf(more enjoyable then pure dmt).

About the IPA thing too, it makes sense that it was normal practice, though theoretically, one could not weigh the freebase dmt to make sure of the exact ratio between leaf and dmt. This is why SWIM never did it, though one can assume that if none of the dmt was lost and the conversion of fumurate to freebase went as planned (losing weight as it was freebased), one could estimate the weight of dmt. That is what SWIM planned on doing with that tek. He never did it before to make sure he could weigh it before adding it to IPA to be accurate.

Simply put, I have never seen a tek anywhere that explains how to take fumurate and freebase it, then put that directly into IPA, filter out the junk and then add the leaf. There should be a tek for that on WIKI if there isn't one already. Plus that tek could end up showing no loss in freebase(which would be awesome). What is often the case (with SWIM and others) is that when freebasing the fumurate, dmt is lost somewhere somehow, which sucks. A sure-fire way to get freebase dmt without losing any and add that to leaf all in just a few steps sounded like a great tek idea. So SWIM conceived of this STEL tek(Straight To Enhanced Leaf), which may have already been conceived of and practiced by others, unbeknown to SWIM. Anyway, SWIM will test it out and try and see if any freebase is lost. Then if it works I will post this tek where many can have access to it.

 

[amor_fati]

Well whatever works. SWIM's glad that SWIY can do it quite simply, in any case. In the end, it has to come down to the preference of the operator. SWIM admittedly is not very experienced with enhanced leaf (tried some experimenting with parsley, but turned out a bit messy for SWIM's liking), so if this is something that makes that process easier, kudos for that.

 

[damiana]

^May I suggest Pau D'arco and DMT, quite exquisite. A whole new experience, not hard at all, just follow the STEL tek and add 1:1 or 2:3, freebase dmt to tea. Just an idea.

 

[amor_fati]

Thanks for the suggestion. SWIM's got a good idea of how it's done and needs little more instruction than what kind of leaf to use and what amounts of harmaloids to add, as the process of making it seems quite straight-forward.

 

[narmz]

Could you do the whole freebasing with sodium-carb and water, dry it out like normal, then pull it with heptane and freeze precip? Just curious.

 

[Dimitrius]

SWIM uses IPA.

He makes a 2:1 sodium carb/dmt fumarate paste, in one of those small measuring shot glasses....dries it...adds ipa at around 30-40ml per gram of fumarates......stir, stir, stir.....lets it all settle for a bit....sodium carbonate sits at the bottom, obvious and a bit chunky....sodium fumarate?(<read whole post) doesn't settle so quickly, but rather sinks very slowly over 20 minutes or so....once it has sunk as much as it's going to sink, he decants as much as possible without pouring out any particulate....then he takes the remaining stuff that still has IPA sitting in it and put this into a filtering device, pulling the remaining IPA through....he evaporates this IPA in an small dish, then dissolves the resulting ?goo?(<can't remember) in an appropriate amount of warm heptane for a recrystallization. THEN he takes the resulting crystallized product, weighs it...then dissolves it in 30-40ml IPA per gram of freebase jungley dmt and evaporates it down onto an amount of leaf equal to the weight of the crystallized jungley dmt.....> FINALLY, he winds up with Changa!

This ^^ is what SWIM has gone the past time or two. It certainly takes a while as one could imagine.

He may have used calcium hydroxide one of those times though, in the place of sodium carbonate.


Also, SWIM is under the impression, from a post by 69ron, that a dmt fumarate/calcium hydroxide paste, mixed and fully reacted, results in freebase dmt/calcium hydroxide/calcium fumarate...and a dmt fumarate/sodium carbonate paste would result in freebase dmt/sodium carbonate/sodium fumarate....

However, in that particular post, dmt acetate and calcium hydroxide were being discussed and so the result was said to be freebase dmt/calcium hydroxide/calcium acetate.....so SWIM assumed this to happen(perhaps naively) with whatever sort of paste, be it with fumarates or acetates, calcium hydroxide or sodium carbonate....maybe he's wrong in this assumption. is he?? maybe the fumaric acid just 'releases' resulting in freebase dmt/sodium carbonate(or calcium hydroxide)/fumaric acid??

BUT, SWIM observed that during the IPA pull on the paste, there was clearly a quickly settled, chunky-ish pile at the bottom...and there was a slowly settling, suspended, but seemingly insoluble powder....and then there was the orangish, clear IPA.....and to get all of the IPA out, it required a filtering device of some sort.

SWIM would would LOOOVE to neatin' up the freebase part of the process.

 

[Dimitrius]

Could you do the whole freebasing with sodium-carb and water, dry it out like normal, then pull it with heptane and freeze precip? Just curious.

hmmmm, SWIM would like to know this as well.

 

[amor_fati]

Could you do the whole freebasing with sodium-carb and water, dry it out like normal, then pull it with heptane and freeze precip? Just curious.

hmmmm, SWIM would like to know this as well.

This can easily be done without drying. All photos of crystalline spice SWIM's posted were made in this way with warm heptane. SWIM has only done that for fun on a couple occasions (to experiment with purer DMT and to grow pretty crystals), but he generally prefers nontoxic and full-range extracts.

 

[amor_fati]

Also, SWIM is under the impression, from a post by 69ron, that a dmt fumarate/calcium hydroxide paste, mixed and fully reacted, results in freebase dmt/calcium hydroxide/calcium fumarate...and a dmt fumarate/sodium carbonate paste would result in freebase dmt/sodium carbonate/sodium fumarate.

Yes, this is why SWIM refers to the byproducts as being a mixture of salts and excess base in his tek. They are water soluble, and the salts don't appear to be soluble in acetone and likely not IPA either.

 

[damiana]

Everyone, thanks for the info. Dimitrius, your technique is interesting, it gets a nice weighed crystal, though the tek seems to be time consuming and SWIM doesn't want to by heptane so he won't end up doing that. Instead he will simply let the first IPA pull of freebase dmt with added leaves evaporate.

 

[Dimitrius]

Could you do the whole freebasing with sodium-carb and water, dry it out like normal, then pull it with heptane and freeze precip? Just curious.

hmmmm, SWIM would like to know this as well.

This can easily be done without drying. All photos of crystalline spice SWIM's posted were made in this way with warm heptane. SWIM has only done that for fun on a couple occasions (to experiment with purer DMT and to grow pretty crystals), but he generally prefers nontoxic and full-range extracts.

So one would make the paste, using the minimal amount of water as usual, and then add the warm heptane without even drying the paste? This presents no issues?

What is SWIY's best method for getting a non-toxic, full-range freebase that can be weighed without trouble?...i.e., not gooey, sticky or oily. SWIM would really like to know.

Is it the "Procedure for Nontoxic Conversion of Full-Range Fumarate Extract of Jurema to Freebase w/ Hasty Manual Crystallization" posted in the Wiki?

Also, SWIM is under the impression, from a post by 69ron, that a dmt fumarate/calcium hydroxide paste, mixed and fully reacted, results in freebase dmt/calcium hydroxide/calcium fumarate...and a dmt fumarate/sodium carbonate paste would result in freebase dmt/sodium carbonate/sodium fumarate.

Yes, this is why SWIM refers to the byproducts as being a mixture of salts and excess base in his tek. They are water soluble, and the salts don't appear to be soluble in acetone and likely not IPA either.

Yeah, they don't appear to be. However, the 'salt' (presumably sodium/or/calcium fumarate) was suspended in the IPA and slowly settled to hovering just above the completely settled sodium carbonate or calcium hydroxide.