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Gaslighting by friends after an LSD trip

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H

hixidom

Rising Star
Really just wondering if anything like this has ever happened to anyone before.

I'll keep it brief. I was on LSD with 6 other people, people I considered my best friends. For an hour they had been making sexually explicit comments about my body and fielding proposals that I found to be absolutely disgusting. I made my disgust very clear to them, literally saying things like "I'm surrounded by Devils", and "I am disgusted by all of you" while making eye contact with each of them individually. I asked them to stop and made looks of disgust to show how wrong their actions were, but it only escalated. By the end of the hour they were saying things like "Come on. Don't make us hold you down!" and "Do you know what guys like us would do to a guy like you in the wild?" Really really sick stuff. You could not have fashioned sharper daggers out of my greatest insecurities...all the while they were encouraging me to come to do cocaine with them in the back room. Obviously that would never have happened at that point, and in fact when they went off to go do some more, I walked off into the desert behind our rental house to just be alone for a while. I had become paranoid about the degree of escalation, and it started to occur to me what might happen if I were still sitting there when they came back.

We were in Las Vegas. There were another half a dozen guys who weren't there at the time but came back to the house later. I eventually came back too, and while I could see shame in the eyes of my friends, the story they had told the others was that I had "had a bad trip". Bare in mind, I have a sharp head about me, and I actually don't act very different on vs off LSD. I didn't try to correct their story as I didn't think there was much chance for my narrative against that of 6 other people, and to be honest, after seeing the shame in my friends' eyes, I was content to just try to enjoy the rest of my weekend and let them all do the same.

I think my friends, while on a mixture of a lot of drugs, had talked themselves into something truly disgusting, and were ashamed, perhaps unwilling to admit it even to themselves. When we got back home, I cut off all ties with them. Now they are trying to contact me and ask me what's going on. They refer to the event as my "bad trip", to me of all people although I remember the things they said. Other friends have asked me what happened and I've told them, but now everybody just thinks I'm crazy. Some of the friends who participated in my torment have sent me long messages about how they've known people with schizophrenia and I fit the image to a tee and should go see a doctor and get medicated.

In my mind, I really don't have a choice at this point but to never see these people again, and not that keen on seeing some of the other friends in my group either, as they are buying the narrative that I am losing my mind. To be honest, I'm about to move out of state in a month, so my days with these people were numbered anyway.

I'm not looking for advice on how to fix this situation. I am at peace with never seeing these people again. They are clearly not my friends and it has been an enlightening lesson in human nature/reasoning for me. I'm just bewildered by how this all shook out, by being seemingly betrayed by my best friends. Are they even lying? Maybe they actually don't remember what was said. I have indeed had the experience that a friend will not remember a deep conversation we shared while on LSD. Obviously, I trust what I heard was said in Vegas, what I saw, and even their emotional reactions to things I said about the events later the same day.

I'm just curious if anyone else has had an experience like this, where their friends had tried to make them question their own sanity by denying what had been done or said (while under the influence of some drug, or otherwise). Is the average person really this evil?

Thanks for reading.
 
Sounds like no matter what occurred that night it was enough to divide you from this group. It's nice to have friends and it sucks to lose them. Friends will come and go like a revolving door. Enjoy their company while you can and bid them farewell when it's over. It's a good opportunity to look at how you feel about other people and what you expect as far as how people treat you. Reexamining relationships is important and can teach us a lot about ourselves.

People change and I am sure you yourself have changed. Everything is changing and that's ok. Just accept it and move on is my advice, advice I should also give myself as I have struggled with friends over the years for varying reasons, so I understand what you're going through. Don't carry around the anger or resentment, don't ruminate, just drop it and go on with your life. The next bunch of friends you choose my be a better match for you and a welcome change from the ones you had before.

LSD is funny in that I have seen people not exactly act like themselves. I think people sometimes lose a sense of adulthood, inhibitions are loosened and sometimes stupid shit is said. It doesn't matter if it was your perception was incorrect or not. You hold that perception and you and your friends are not able to work through it. You teach people how to treat you. Move on with pride that you stuck up for yourself!

All that probably won't make you feel a whole lot better the lame situation but it is something to think about. Enjoy the move, enjoy your new city you are moving to, look forward to the next peoples that come into your life. Welcome people in and out of your life!!
 
I feel like this kind of thing can happen even in sober groups. The human memory is flawed, and many times, when recollecting something, there are gaps filled in that may not be accurate. In the context of this situation, one member, who may have a dominant personality (which can also be over-confident in themselves) develops and devlivers a recollection with conviction and because of that tone of conviction, other members allow their memories to fall in line with the one that seems so certain, though it could be the most inaccurate of them all. Then there's the difficulty many individuals have in changing their minds or understanding once they have already embarked on a particular path of thought. They've already been thinking in a certain way and are used to it, so new information or interpretations are categorically dismissed and the original stance/perspective is defended.

I am sorry you had to experience this, but am glad you've found peace with it.

One love
Vm
 
I have had very similar experiences that to this day I question whether or not they actually happened or if I had just been that far gone into hallucinations that I imagined the whole thing. The important thing is that no matter whether or not they happened, your mind clearly doesn't feel comfortable around these people, and probably the best thing to do is to distance yourself from them regardless of what you think or know may have happened. Keep an eye on your mental state moving forward, just to do your due diligence.

I feel your pain, my friend. These kinds of experiences can really do a number on the psyche. I hope that you are able to move on from all of this and find yourself a friend group that truly makes you feel comfortable.


Best wishes
 
Thank you very much for the support and information. My response to all of this has been deterministic from the beginning. As far as I was concerned, this was God showing me evil deep in the hearts of my friends, but at the end of the day it is true that the only reality here is my feelings toward these people. I think that itself is a strong indication of cause, but what it really comes down to is that I got burned, shame on them, etc. It's even harder to explain when there are people in the argument who have never done LSD, so they come in thinking that I could've hallucinated the whole situation. That's not how LSD works, at least not for 1 dose, not for me anyway.

But yes, I am at peace with the situation. Thankful even. It seems like the trip hasn't ended and I am still gaining insights about who I am and how my personality differs from that of other people, how my awkward social instincts may sometimes draw unwanted attention to my differences between others in a group, and obviously about my choice of friends, perception of character, and perhaps quickness to trust people, or at least quickness to do LSD with people that I don't know much about. Psychedelics are a fine tool, but they can bring out your demons, especially if you don't know where they hide or that they even exist. I have spent a lot of time tracking them down and exorcising them. I should be more wary of who I do psychedelics with. That falls into "setting", after all.

Thanks again for you kind words and insights.
 
Gaslighting has a prominent spot in the toolkits of the sexually predatory IME. This is especially true if the predator perceives you to be in any type of a state of vulnerability; whether financially desperate, emotionally unstable, or as in your circumstances, tripping.

I have endured these types a handful of times over the years. Once it was someone I thought I knew quite well and had been close to for many years. They had been exploiting several of my friends and viewed me as a threat (competition that didn’t use manipulation to get sex) and unrelentingly attacked me psychologically while I was dealing with a bad breakup and a death in the family. I have since then never spoken to them again.

I wouldn’t get too discouraged. That level of sociopathology is mostly reserved for CEO’s and politicians, and now you have a much better model for pattern recognition.
 
Nice to see you back here after all this time, hixidom!

Funnily enough, your penultimate post prior to the hiatus said the following:
Being with other people while tripping can cause some social paranoia (for me at least) in the form of mis-reading someone's words or body language in an increasingly negative way. I'm telling you about this so that you can identify it and break the cycle if it starts to happen. Hopefully this isn't a self-fulling prophecy :)
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It sounds like you found yourself in a ridiculous situation there - was this an attempted re-enactment of "Fear and Loathing..."? I can imagine that your (former) friends probably thought they were being hilariously funny and it got terribly out of hand. Maybe they also thought you were being 'uptight' or some such, and on top of what ever combination of drugs you'd all had it spiralled out of control.

I'm wondering what insights you've had about your own role in the overall situation, for it seems to me your story highlights how we ought to be cautious about what might be termed 'frivolous use' of psychedelics.

Overall, I'm glad you've come through this in good shape - it could have been so much worse.


Incidentally, are you familiar with Dale Pendell's "Pharmako/" trilogy? There's a passage in one of the books this affair reminds me of. I'll dig it out for you in a bit.
 
downwardsfromzero said:
Nice to see you back here after all this time, hixidom!

Funnily enough, your penultimate post prior to the hiatus said the following:
Being with other people while tripping can cause some social paranoia (for me at least) in the form of mis-reading someone's words or body language in an increasingly negative way. I'm telling you about this so that you can identify it and break the cycle if it starts to happen. Hopefully this isn't a self-fulling prophecy :)
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It sounds like you found yourself in a ridiculous situation there - was this an attempted re-enactment of "Fear and Loathing..."? I can imagine that your (former) friends probably thought they were being hilariously funny and it got terribly out of hand. Maybe they also thought you were being 'uptight' or some such, and on top of what ever combination of drugs you'd all had it spiralled out of control.

I'm wondering what insights you've had about your own role in the overall situation, for it seems to me your story highlights how we ought to be cautious about what might be termed 'frivolous use' of psychedelics.

Overall, I'm glad you've come through this in good shape - it could have been so much worse.


Incidentally, are you familiar with Dale Pendell's "Pharmako/" trilogy? There's a passage in one of the books this affair reminds me of. I'll dig it out for you in a bit.
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I think dfz is right and it could all have been a misunderstanding that escalated badly.

The way i see it, you have a choice: either you're open to the suggestion that it was all a misunderstanding that escalated badly, and then it could be usefull to maybe talk things over with some of these people.
Or that ship has simply sailed.

In the latter case, ruminating over it will do you no good.

To stop ruminating over negative experiences is a difficult thing to do. I have this tendency myself, and i know that sometimes it seems to just happen, and then you'll find yourself going over something again that has long lost it's relevance.

But then you just have to remind yourself of the uselessness of it.

Accept the fact it happened. Accept the fact even, that you are partly responsible for ending up in that situation, either by picking the wrong people to hang out with, or by some other mistake or unfortunate choice.

I know that sounds very harsh, but i think it's the only way not to let yourself become a victim.
We all have traumatic experiences. It's not the way it should be, but it's the way it is nevertheless.
Don't let these traumas weigh you down and controll you.

Easier said than done, i know. But still. Better not carry a load of deadweight with you.
 
I am sorry to hear you had such an awful experience however I think there is a silver lining. You should stay far away from anyone that treats you the way you were treated that night, drug involvement does not excuse that type of behavior. The gaslighting doubles down on that sentiment.

I absolutely refuse to allow anyone in my life that uses these types of techniques to manipulate others. Most of are already crazy enough without someone trying to convince us that we are crazy because of their negative behaviors. I agree with the statement this is a common tool among sociopaths. The people involved in this behavior are not your friends, they are incapable of anything more than a symbiotic or even parasitic type of relationship. That's not to say they can't see the er of their ways down the road. Trauma induced Psycopathy is a real phenomenon and can be treated, sociopathy however happens in the first year of development and is untreatable.
 
I would urge you to do your best to be observant about the events that happened. Even though it sounds like the impact of these events has already occured, and the relationships have been broken off. Of course I was not there but from reading your post the impressions that jumped out at me are the facts that you were in a environment (Las Vegas) which you stated was a vacation destination, and therefore unfamiliar. Vegas is a very overwheling and sensually stimulating place from what I gather, and it's reputation as "sin city" carries significant connotations. You sound like you have a fairly strong moral compass from a few of the statements in your post, could it be possible you were unconsciously struggling with things in your environment that weren't morally agreeable to you? There could be any number of things in a tourist area of Las Vegas that could be transgressions of one's values, if they are even somewhat 'aware'. Despite stating you don't "seem" different to others on LSD, it affects you and your perceptions. From what I know of being on LSD, a mind in conflict will try to resolve itself in hallucinations, and it can get really hairy when one's own internal struggles become projected onto everything that they can stick to. It is like putting a colorfilter on a light, everything takes on that hue. I am not saying your friends were kind, or providing you with a safe space to explore your mind, it sounds like they were jerks and that this was a party gone out of hand that had real consequences. They are proabbly best out of your life, if nothing else than as poor influences. I just wonder if you may be better served in the long run by considering that the observational truth may be the middle ground of this story, that you are not schizophrenic, and that your friends are not evil. They took something too far, and you weren't in on the "joke". Forgive me if there is no way that is the case, I was not present, obviously.
 
downwardsfromzero said:
Funnily enough, your penultimate post prior to the hiatus said the following:
Being with other people while tripping can cause some social paranoia (for me at least) in the form of mis-reading someone's words or body language in an increasingly negative way. I'm telling you about this so that you can identify it and break the cycle if it starts to happen. Hopefully this isn't a self-fulling prophecy
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This discovery of yours is truly hilarious. Maybe it was a self-fulfilling prophecy after all.

null24 said:
Vegas is a very overwheling and sensually stimulating place from what I gather, and it's reputation as "sin city" carries significant connotations.
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This is definitely true and was a big influence on the mood and themes of my trip.

null24 said:
I just wonder if you may be better served in the long run by considering that the observational truth may be the middle ground of this story, that you are not schizophrenic, and that your friends are not evil. They took something too far, and you weren't in on the "joke". Forgive me if there is no way that is the case, I was not present, obviously.
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You are correct, and at the end of the day I was encouraged to get in touch with one of the people involved who hadn't had much to say. My other friends were willing to admit only that "nothing happened" and had been encouraging me to get psychiatric help. The friend that I finally reached out to was strikingly open, truthful, and compassionate. He said described such jokes being made, but he also told me his side of the story, which made it seem plausible that my perception of being targeted was indeed an insecure interpretation. From what he described, it seems like there were bullets flying every which way and I got hit with a few from different directions, and it felt like everyone was shooting at me. So this friend softened my heart, and made me feel ashamed, and I made this known to everyone and gave my sincerest apologies. I reached out to another of my silent friends who gave more or less the same description of the collective trip.

Indeed the damage had already been done. I had been extremely paranoid for like 3 weeks, and everything that happened after the initial trip seemed to validate my paranoia. When my friends said "nothing happened", that was some conspiracy of silence. The shame I thought I had seen in my friend's eyes was more likely just discomfort from their own bad trips. So in the end, I had uncovered some of my own demons in hiding. I had let them eat away at my mind and come between me and my friends.

At the end of the day, the friend who was open and truthful with me gave me what I needed to make mental changes. I lost trust in my friends due to my own paranoia, but all I really needed was the truth; not even my truth, but just a seed of truth of what the environment had really been like that day. I reflected on this friend's honesty, and his understanding of how I must have felt, and then on my other friends who were manically asserting that I was crazy... I am still at peace with cutting ties with these people. I am increasingly convinced with the fact that they can't be honest with me or themselves due to these events, but also due to suble increasing hostility between us over the past few months. Briefly, I think I made the mistake of being too open with them about how I thought of myself, and their behavior had been becoming more manipulative (occasional attacks on my sense of manhood below their breath at parties, so that only I could hear). It seemed like they were cataloging ways to chip away at my self confidence while I was (naively) trying to bounce intellectual ideas off of them, always trying to learn more about who I am in relation to them.

There is a large part of this story that I've left out because I don't really like how religious views end up in the crossfire of close-minded people on this forum (or had in the past at least), but suffice it to say that I have been becoming very religious over the past year, having frequent religious experiences resulting in a relationship with a God who will steer my life with unambiguous signs, if I only submit to his will. For months now I have been praying that God would give me the strength to find the motivation to not smoke that bowl, or to not go out to get drunk with friends every other night, simply because of how these things were taking priority over my creative hobbies and quenching my motivation and productivity. They were becoming an addiction. In the desert in Vegas, God told me to do two things: Quit the drugs, and dissociate from these friends. These were very clear commandments. So after all of this, I can't help but feel that God was answering my prayers, and that this whole experience has strengthened my faith in ways I never imagined. I was starting to think it impossible that I could take the reigns of these insidious addictions, but God will make the impossible easy. He has proved that to me over and over again at this point.

It doesn't help my relationship with my ex-friends that they associate my becoming more religious with all the signs of schizophrenia that they have seen in prior cases in their life. God is just "voices in my head" according to them.

Anyways, thanks again for all the insightful and caring posts.
 
By the sounds of it I think you'd made a smart decision as far as cutting them out goes. Im my view people that talk like that, irregardless of their drug combination/s, especially when they were told to chill/stop and just kept going, making you more uncomfortable as time went on, that would settle it for me personally. Then them trying to come at you after the fact and say you may be schizo ..lol. Sorry to say but f those folks. I'm glad you'd saw it and learned from it. People like that aren't worth your time && energy imo/e. Kudos to you for being able to reflect on it now, talk openly about it && move on. Good on you. <3
 
It's also very important (and good on you) that you did not talk yourself into thinking that you *are* insane, which I had done on several of my encounters. It took me quite a while to realize that I wasn't crazy, and that my insecurities and inability to deal with my past may have played a part in what I was feeling, but even so, these feelings were relevant, and came from a deep distrust in the people I was with. That feeling that the people I was around clearly did not have my best interest in mind, but their own. People who just take what they can get from you while secretly not really caring what happens to you in the long run.

One of these people would even secretly dose me with LSD without my permission when I would be out at a concert with them. I even caught one of them secretly re-dosing me when I was having a bad trip and/or paranoid thoughts. I've known this guy for 15 years, so I really felt betrayed.

Today, I very much keep to myself, and have honestly developed some friends here at the Nexus that I would say I am closer to, and who know more about the real me than some of these people I knew for a decade. Sometimes we give people a pass because we have history with them when they do not deserve said pass.


Sorry about going off on a tangent there! My point was that I am happy that you didn't go down the road that I did trying to convince yourself that something is wrong with you. I am glad that you acknowledged the feelings and took action. Not everyone gets it right right away, and it seems that you did just that. I hope that you continue to improve not only your mental state, but your life as you had stated you wanted to make some changes. I feel your pain in some of these instances. I have made a great improvement in my intake of certain compounds; it does help.


Thanks for listening, and I wish you nothing but happiness and blessings.

-SV
 
I just wanted to thank you hixidom, for having the courage to share such a personal experience here. The responses in this thread reaffirm the pride I have in being part of this community. Everyone keeping love in a position of primacy when making an analysis of someone’s circumstances.

On a separate note, I have a marginally related anecdote FWIW. When I was a much younger man, I had a group of a dozen or so fairly close tripping buddies. It turns out one of them was diagnosed with schizophrenia a few years later. The schizophrenic was almost completely insensitive to the effects of LSD. The rest of us would be absolutely blown away by one fourth of the dose he was taking and he would think we were joking about feeling any effects because he felt none. He had some extremely elaborate delusions but they never seemed to be affected by psychedelics in any way the rest of us could tell.




Having been in the circumstances of taking LSD in a group on many many occasions, I agree the ambiguity of a joke can take its route through the minds in a group and get quite out of hand. But, as appears to be somewhat unanimous here, they took it well past the point of humor or attempting to teach a lesson, and then attempted to obfuscate their offense in a really horrible and self serving way, rather than to apologize and ask forgiveness.

As is evidenced in this thread, there are so many amazing, loving, courageous, and kind people - we just all need to stand together and nurture one another and leave anyone not interested in that, behind.
 
Thank you all for the personal stories and insights into the matter. As someone had said earlier, "you teach people how to treat you [through your reactions]". That is the attitude I am going forward with. Certainly I felt/feel very uncomfortable around these people, and while the truth of the matter is somewhat ambiguous, I know I am reacting to something; a problem that has been lurking for some time. I will have to reflect on whether the problem was their insensitivity or my oversensitivity; their immorality or my naivete. In any case, as my current self, it seems they are not "my people". In retrospect, there were signs and I wasn't true to myself from the beginning. I looked up to these people because I had a lot to learn from them, but in that process I ignored obvious red flags. This level of recklessness is inevitable at least once in life. Lots of valuable lessons.

Thank you kind Nexus friends for helping me to analyze and process these experiences. Iron sharpens iron...
 
With the information you've given I can say quite confidently that those people are either not your friends, or they are just not good people (in which case they aren't capable of acting like a real friend)..

I wasn't there, and I know you mentioned some possible paranoia, projection, etc. And I know psychedelics can bring unconscious things to the forefront, and this can lead to some odd social situations. But, taking all of that into account, it does not matter. If what you said in your first post is true, and I have to assume that it is, then your acquaintances crossed the line quite far, and lingered over that line quite long. I don't see any good reason for saying something like the things you quoted them saying. Sure, some guys ball bust each other, and that can be a part of being friends with guys, but that doesn't mean that all ballbusting is ok. If it's your primary way of bonding then that bonding is questionable. Either way, that's here nor there because the remarks they made are over the line.

This doesn't mean that you put yourself in a good situation. But again, that is besides the point. And you have obviously gleaned some insight from the incident. If they are insisting that there's something wrong with you, then that is obviously them projecting and protecting themselves. Maybe there is "something wrong" with you (there is with everyone) ; but what exactly is it that they're referring to? Ask them to be more specific (if you choose associate with any of them that is). If what they say has any worth, any truth, then is would be useful to know specifically what that truth is. And if there isn't any truth, then it would be useful to clear that up to.
 
Based on your initial description, I think you are right to get away from these toxic people. I mean it, TOXIC people. Its way too common in modern societies. Trust your instincts on this. If you felt they were bullying you and sexually harassing you, they are toxic for you (and others around them), just tell them `fuck off creeps and stay away from me`, at least until you get some serious and decent apologies and recognition of what happened. Doesn`t matter if its drug confusion or misunderstanding, you should respect yourself first, don`t neglect your feelings over theirs.

Finding good friends gets harder the older you become, but its a quality over quantity thing.

You want people that you can rely on, especially during psychedelia.
 
hixidom said:
Thank you all for the personal stories and insights into the matter. As someone had said earlier, "you teach people how to treat you [through your reactions]". That is the attitude I am going forward with. Certainly I felt/feel very uncomfortable around these people, and while the truth of the matter is somewhat ambiguous, I know I am reacting to something; a problem that has been lurking for some time. I will have to reflect on whether the problem was their insensitivity or my oversensitivity; their immorality or my naivete. In any case, as my current self, it seems they are not "my people". In retrospect, there were signs and I wasn't true to myself from the beginning. I looked up to these people because I had a lot to learn from them, but in that process I ignored obvious red flags. This level of recklessness is inevitable at least once in life. Lots of valuable lessons.

Thank you kind Nexus friends for helping me to analyze and process these experiences. Iron sharpens iron...
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That is the way i would look at it as well.

If a friendship either cannot be fixed, or isn't worth fixing, the only remaining issue truly deserving your attention now, is whether there may have been some underlying stuff that triggered you this or that way, or contributed in some other way to you feeling this way about it now.

And from that perspective, this experience may even be helpfull in clarifying whatever that underlying stuff may be.
 
The minute you expressed your discomfort and they continued, the line was crossed. That's sexual harassment. That's also a horrifying situation to be in.

I'm sorry that happened and I'm glad you're okay.

If these people were true friends, even if the night went as it did, the hot minute everyone was sober and you expressed your upset, they should have validated your feelings - not tried to gaslight you. That's abuse and manipulation. As noted earlier in the thread, this is par for the course for predators. True friends can have misunderstandings (drugs or not), but you should be able to work it out together, and reconcile with some kind of mutual understanding and respect.

Their behavior toward you is consistently disrespectful.

If I read your initial post correctly, everyone involved is male? If you had a friend who was female and recounted this same story to you, what advice would you give her? Then turn around and give that advice to yourself. There hasn't been an as explosive of a me too recognition for these situations, but they absolutely do happen among men. There is a unique and often unspoken shame/guilt for the victim because of toxic masculinity, how talking about something like this could appear "weak," etc.

Those people are yikes. I hope you enjoy your fresh start to the fullest.
 
ms_manic_minxx said:
If I read your initial post correctly, everyone involved is male? If you had a friend who was female and recounted this same story to you, what advice would you give her? Then turn around and give that advice to yourself. There hasn't been an as explosive of a me too recognition for these situations, but they absolutely do happen among men. There is a unique and often unspoken shame/guilt for the victim because of toxic masculinity, how talking about something like this could appear "weak," etc.
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Amen, sister! There are so many layers of nuance to these types of circumstances. It’s not unreasonable to fear confronting such a group for fear of announcing a position vulnerability and then facilitating an unintended self fulfilling prophecy. And, as you said, men are not generally allowed to express feelings of being sexually threatened, and if the victimizer were a woman then, “why didn’t we welcome it? What’s wrong with us?”. It is long past time for men to feel comfortable saying,”me too!”
 
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