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Migrated topic.
entheogenic-gnosis said:
In an effort to shorten the replies I copied and pasted your last response in quotations below:

[quote
Any oral MAOI/DMT combination can be considered an ayahuasca analogue.

any combination of plants which are chemically identical to the plants used in ayahuasca, and which are used in an identical manner are ayahuasca analogues. Banisteriopsis caapi vine contains harmine, harmaline, and tetrahydroharmine, and peganum harmala seeds contain this same chemical profile. Making peganum harmala seeds analogous to banisteriopsis caapi vine, or an "analogue" of caapi.

When it comes to the DMT sources it's the same deal, however many of the DMT source plants also contain N-methyl-tryptamine and other trace tryptamine and beta-carboline compounds, yet they are still for all intents and purposes analogues of psychotoria viridis or diplopterys cabrerana, the DMT source plants used in ayahuasca.

Desmanthus leptolobus contains DMT, though the related Desmanthus illinoensis contains DMT, NMT, N-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine, 2-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine, and gramine, and I imagine D. leptolobus has a similar chemical profile, which needs to be taken into account, gramine is the most concerning compound present. I have heard years of anecdotal reports regarding successful extraction and use in ayahuasca analogue brews with both desmanthus plant species, in many cases these plants have been praised as a high yielding source for DMT extraction, and potent ayahuasca analogue ingrediants.

Regardless, the day-dream was spreading a harmine/harmaline/THH containing caapi analogue plant, with a DMT source plant, and it seemed peganum harmala and Desmanthus leptolobus could potentially thrive in the same environment, both plants actually grow as weeds in many places.

(I know this probably doesn't need to be said, but Laudanum is incredibly dangerous, alcohol and opioids can lead to severe narcosis, coma, respiratory Depression leading to death, and so on...mixing opioids and benzodiazepines and mixing opioids and alcohol are some of the most dangerous opioid combinations out there... )

-eg
Click to expand...

Sorry for the confusion pertaining to the analogue in the last reply. I wasn't really in the right frame of mine when I replayed last, was at the doctors with the wife and one of the kids getting the ultras sound for the new baby.. from my brief study on Ayahuasca I've always been curious of these Analogues of Ayahuasca gAve the same experience and the traditional way of making the brew. I've wanted to keep it as traditional as i could when I explore my inner self but realistically I don't think that will be possible for myself when the time comes. I feel I'll be along ways from my goal if growing my own plants.

I have been looking at other MAOI plants and one local plant that grows invasive around me has me interested. I've noticed some posts here at the Nexus I want to read later this evening that I've book marked. The Elaeagnus umbellata aka Japanese silverberry/autumn olive tree is very prolific where I am and from my brief reading is a powerful MAOI. This one holds some great promise for myself as I'd be able to grow/Harvest it locally.


As for the Laudanum, there is always caution to be used with any drugs. And especially when Alcohol is combined. Luckily my intention for making the Laudanum isn't for me to use and abuse. And I do know how very dangerous it can be especially for sone one with no tolerance to opiates. From my brief foray with opiates I've come to the understanding of if medical value which far exceeds it's use as a recreational drug. Now this my be different for some people so a word of caution is always welcomed when touching on this topic.



Do you have any words or experience to compare Traditional Ayahuasca with an Ayahuasca Analogues?
 
Some of my artificially grown hybrid Cacti:







Artificially grown L.Williamsii




Artificially Grown Psychotria Viridis & Bach #6 Clone:







MOON FLOWERS:



Skunk
 
SkunK said:
entheogenic-gnosis said:
In an effort to shorten the replies I copied and pasted your last response in quotations below:

[quote
Any oral MAOI/DMT combination can be considered an ayahuasca analogue.

any combination of plants which are chemically identical to the plants used in ayahuasca, and which are used in an identical manner are ayahuasca analogues. Banisteriopsis caapi vine contains harmine, harmaline, and tetrahydroharmine, and peganum harmala seeds contain this same chemical profile. Making peganum harmala seeds analogous to banisteriopsis caapi vine, or an "analogue" of caapi.

When it comes to the DMT sources it's the same deal, however many of the DMT source plants also contain N-methyl-tryptamine and other trace tryptamine and beta-carboline compounds, yet they are still for all intents and purposes analogues of psychotoria viridis or diplopterys cabrerana, the DMT source plants used in ayahuasca.

Desmanthus leptolobus contains DMT, though the related Desmanthus illinoensis contains DMT, NMT, N-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine, 2-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine, and gramine, and I imagine D. leptolobus has a similar chemical profile, which needs to be taken into account, gramine is the most concerning compound present. I have heard years of anecdotal reports regarding successful extraction and use in ayahuasca analogue brews with both desmanthus plant species, in many cases these plants have been praised as a high yielding source for DMT extraction, and potent ayahuasca analogue ingrediants.

Regardless, the day-dream was spreading a harmine/harmaline/THH containing caapi analogue plant, with a DMT source plant, and it seemed peganum harmala and Desmanthus leptolobus could potentially thrive in the same environment, both plants actually grow as weeds in many places.

(I know this probably doesn't need to be said, but Laudanum is incredibly dangerous, alcohol and opioids can lead to severe narcosis, coma, respiratory Depression leading to death, and so on...mixing opioids and benzodiazepines and mixing opioids and alcohol are some of the most dangerous opioid combinations out there... )

-eg
Click to expand...

Sorry for the confusion pertaining to the analogue in the last reply. I wasn't really in the right frame of mine when I replayed last, was at the doctors with the wife and one of the kids getting the ultras sound for the new baby.. from my brief study on Ayahuasca I've always been curious of these Analogues of Ayahuasca gAve the same experience and the traditional way of making the brew. I've wanted to keep it as traditional as i could when I explore my inner self but realistically I don't think that will be possible for myself when the time comes. I feel I'll be along ways from my goal if growing my own plants.

I have been looking at other MAOI plants and one local plant that grows invasive around me has me interested. I've noticed some posts here at the Nexus I want to read later this evening that I've book marked. The Elaeagnus umbellata aka Japanese silverberry/autumn olive tree is very prolific where I am and from my brief reading is a powerful MAOI. This one holds some great promise for myself as I'd be able to grow/Harvest it locally.


As for the Laudanum, there is always caution to be used with any drugs. And especially when Alcohol is combined. Luckily my intention for making the Laudanum isn't for me to use and abuse. And I do know how very dangerous it can be especially for sone one with no tolerance to opiates. From my brief foray with opiates I've come to the understanding of if medical value which far exceeds it's use as a recreational drug. Now this my be different for some people so a word of caution is always welcomed when touching on this topic.



Do you have any words or experience to compare Traditional Ayahuasca with an Ayahuasca Analogues?
Click to expand...


Hmmm...there are differences between traditional ayahuasca and ayahuasca analogues, but they are very subtle, I mean if your MAOI source plant contains harmala alkaloids, and your DMT source plant contains mostly DMT, then yes the differences are very subtle...

it's when you begin mixing novel MAOI compounds with DMT or with DMT source plants which contain other tryptamine compounds such as 5-meo-DMT and/or 5-ho-DMT that these differences become more pronounced and defined.

It really is an art form which is built out of wisdom, experimentation and a deep connection and relationship to the plants.

-eg
 
Datura stramonium "Jimson weed or Devil's snare", in the nightshade family

















Skunk
 
Datura stramonium "Jimson weed or Devil's snare", in the nightshade family

















Skunk
 
Scary stuff, very toxic.

I feel these acetylcholine inhibitor deliriants are special tools designated for skilled and experienced practitioners of psychoactive plant use.

(There have been many deaths attributed to poisoning from datura, belladonna, or brugmansia species, the intoxication is unpleasant and long lasting, complete with full delirium, urinary retention, "phantom" ciggarettes, and conversations with individuals who are not present, it's nothing desirable, and it's not an experiance I could imagine anybody desiring as a means of recreation, it is a poison. )

Beautiful plants though.

Funny story regarding "jimson weed", in 1676, in Jamestown, Virginia, British troops sent to halt Bacon's Rebellion thought the plant was a food source and added it to salad Fed to the troops, resulting in a mass poisoning, and mass delirium, earning the plant the name "Jamestown weed", which over time was corrupted to "jimson weed"

-eg
 


Psilocybe Azurescens









Psilocybe Cyanescens
Out door Tubs....







Indoor Tub:








SKUNK

 
Banisteriopsis Caapi:
(Tucunaca, Caupuri & Ourinhos)

Here's how we stand....
The Lot:


Tucunaca:


Caupuri:



Ourinhos:








Skunk
 
Autumn Olive
-one this Skunk is really interested in learing and researching about. Could be a great source for an MAOI and grows invasive around my neck of the woods. Snagged some cuttings while out and about with MJROOM this morning. Some will be rooted in Willow Water and others in a medium using a hardwood rooting gel. Hopefully I'll have plants to grow in the yard that could be very beneficial for this Skunk. also has an edible fruit.





Here's the Donor Plant I Snagged the clones from....




Skunk
 
Salvia Divinorum (Gifted go this Skunk)
-New cutting with the two older Leaf Cuttings (month old) still living.

(NEW)


(MONTH OLD LEAF CUTTINGS)


Skunk
 
entheogenic-gnosis said:
Scary stuff, very toxic.

I feel these acetylcholine inhibitor deliriants are special tools designated for skilled and experienced practitioners of psychoactive plant use.

(There have been many deaths attributed to poisoning from datura, belladonna, or brugmansia species, the intoxication is unpleasant and long lasting, complete with full delirium, urinary retention, "phantom" ciggarettes, and conversations with individuals who are not present, it's nothing desirable, and it's not an experiance I could imagine anybody desiring as a means of recreation, it is a poison. )

Beautiful plants though.

Funny story regarding "jimson weed", in 1676, in Jamestown, Virginia, British troops sent to halt Bacon's Rebellion thought the plant was a food source and added it to salad Fed to the troops, resulting in a mass poisoning, and mass delirium, earning the plant the name "Jamestown weed", which over time was corrupted to "jimson weed"

-eg
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree more with you about the use of such plants. It is definitely not a recreational use substance or for the untrained. And even then it's still dangerous. Again these are grown purely for the horticultural experience and my own personal leaning. I hope it's not fround upon me sharing these with the forum.

I've read the story in "Psychoactive Plants Encyclopedia" it's a stark warning of the power of this plant when care is not taken.
 
RIVA CORYMBOAS:




MORNING GLORYS (HEAVENLY BLUE/FLYING SAUCERS)



Skunk
 
SAN PEDRO:





HYBRID CACTI:






















MIMOSA HOSTILIS:


MIMOSA PUDICA "SENSITIVE PLANT"

 
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