Hallucinating PAIN

[potato]

I've had two DMT experiences that were nothing but pain. No hallucinations besides burning, stinging pain all over the outside and inside of my body. The vast majority of my experiences have been painless and if they ever involved a touch of pain, it was dominated by hyperspace.

My two pain experiences had something in common: I was with a friend (different people each time) who insisted on holding and lighting the pipe for me. I remember both times trying to explain that I just preferred to light it myself, but my friends were convicted to hold and light the pipe for me wouldn't take no for an answer so I caved and let them do it.

I have vivid memories from both instances of watching my friends take the pipe from my mouth and step backwards, looking into my eyes excitedly, and asking me if I was tripping. The vapor burned in my lungs and after exhaling, the burning started to spread out, eventually taking over my whole body. The first time I cried in the fetal position for ten minutes. The second time I just grimaced, clenched my fists and waited it out.

The vast majority of my experiences have been painless and I feel comfortable knowing how to avoid these pain trips- don't let anyone light the pipe for me unless I actually want them to.

Anyway, I thought I'd share this because it really blew my mind when I figured it out.

 

[Rivaq's Matilda]

Hallucinations of pain, were a part of the normal daily experience of all long term addicts of opium derivatives. There is a saying about opium in China, that it takes the pain away but still hurts.

So my first thought was that you need the information about whether the two friends who held and lite your pipe, have had that experience.

My second thought is that such phenomenon are also mentioned in old homeopathy literature, which includes many such sensations, listed as disease symptoms, and called "Sensations as if".

My third thought, is that you might well be quite correct, in that DMT could potentially be always like that. It might be worth research from other folk. And worth the question, that if others say "No", I don't want the pain, does that not mean they have inadvertently corroborated you? Or do they still need to let somebody give them a pipe and lite it, to be sure?

I think I like the question as a research question, "Does DMT always, or often, create sensations as if a physical cause of pain were present, aka somatic hallucinations of pain, when the pipe is held and lite by another person, or only when that other person was...........(fill in the blank)."

 

[potato]

I don't think the pain was triggered simply by my friend holding/lighting the pipe for me. The pain is probably the result of being defeated in the conflict of "who will hold the pipe for my dose." I wanted to hold the pipe and tried to convince my friends to permit this, but they insisted so vehemently that they should hold the pipe that I gave up and allowed them to do so against my wishes. I think it was this defeat that caused the pain rather than simply having someone else hold the pipe. One of these friends had held the pipe for me before, when I was new to DMT and happily accepted his aid. That experience was not painful.

I would like to know how common it is to have hallucinations of pain on smoked DMT trips and whether those who have experienced this have any notion as to the cause or source of the pain.

 

[syberdelic]

delete me

 

[Rivaq's Matilda]

The rap about sigma1 receptor (below in italics just a cut and paste out of wikipedia since I had to look this up to be sure of myself), implicates bone density. Bone density is not a factor of your homeostasis you want to go meddling with. I'd be considering family histories related to bone disease, in combination with all the conditions listed as relevant in studies of the sigma1 receptor. I know it is about calcium signaling rather than calcium absorption, but both signalling and absorption relate with calcium concentration regulation. I think there is a necessity that calcium intake can be rapidly resolved, meaning sorted by endoplasmic reticulum, and distributed to where it can be most immediately used. If indigenous australian's hearsay evidence is true, higher bone density will relate with a faster breakthrough experience. That hearsay combined with the use of medical marijuana treating osteoporosis, and I'd be looking to the body's ability to regulate calcium.

The sigma-1 receptor (σ1R), one of two sigma receptor subtypes, is a chaperone protein at the endoplasmic reticulum (ER) that modulates calcium signaling through the IP3 receptor.[5] In humans, the σ1 receptor is encoded by the SIGMAR1 gene.[6][7]

The σ1 receptor is a transmembrane protein expressed in many different tissue types. It is particularly concentrated in certain regions of the central nervous system.[8] It has been implicated in several phenomena, including cardiovascular function, schizophrenia, clinical depression, the effects of cocaine abuse, and cancer.[9][10] Much is known about the binding affinity of hundreds of synthetic compounds to the σ1 receptor.

An endogenous ligand for the σ1 receptor has yet to be conclusively identified, but tryptaminergic trace amines, as well as neuroactive steroids such as dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and pregnenolone all activate the receptor.[11]

 

[potato]

I would suggest that the body regulates calcium concentration in neurons and glia much more strictly than in bone. Whereas a certain level of calcium depletion in bone is normal and functional, calcium deficits in the nervous system would cause severe, widespread deficits. Therefore, I doubt that one system regulate calcium concentration in bones and the CNS.

As far as an underlying reason my physical pain hallucinations, I do think that the sigma-1 receptor is interesting because it binds opioids as well as tryptamines. Could it be possible that inactive sigma-1 (σ1) during a DMT dose results in pain? If so, how did my frustrate mental state influence ligand binding at σ1?

Consider this:
In the membrane of the endoplasmic reticulum, σ1 complexes with the IP3 receptor, a Ca++ channel. σ1 is suspected to be a signal transduction amplifier.

When I got frustrated, my brain increased norepinephrine release. Norepinephrine signals to increase IP3 and increase calcium. The presence of σ1, the transduction amplifier, may lead to even more increased calcium, via the IP3 channel.

Now, considering this sequence, it is possible that the purpose of increase in calcium here is to reduce sensitivity to pain. Reduced sensitivity to pain is common when an organism is angry and norepinephrine is being increased.

Now, consider the impacts of ligand binding to σ1 receptor. Certain opioids and certain tryptamines are known ligands. Perhaps opioids are agonists of σ1 and their binding contributes to the decreasing of the pain response. Now, what if trpytamine is an σ1 antagonist and its binding detracted from the process of decreasing pain sensitivity.

IDK. Can't ponder on this one anymore