• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Harmala & Guayusa?

josboaz

josboaz

Esteemed member
Donator
Sabnock1990 wrote the following in a thread about Harmala & Lemon balm

Sabnock1990 said:
Lemon Balm goes together really nicely with the Rue, it does clean it up in terms of bodyload especially because it counteracts the GABA-A inverse agonism of the Rue by raising GABA levels via GABA Transaminase inhibition. All GABAergics (including benzos, alcohol, amanita, likely passion flower and perhaps skullcap and others) will have a similar effect, but ime Lemon Balm is particularly special
Click to expand...

Right now I want to know if Mint and Guayusa have similar chemicals, or if there is someone that mixes Guayusa with Harmala?
 
Guayusa is mainly caffeine, no?

I came upon guayusa used as admixture plant in caapi sessions several times, to erase the tiredness.

Haven't felt significant differences.
 
josboaz said:
And L-theanine and Theobromine.
Click to expand...
Source for the theanine claim?
josboaz said:
Right now I want to know if Mint and Guayusa have similar chemicals, or if there is someone that mixes Guayusa with Harmala?
Click to expand...
I'd suggest you look into exactly what it is in lemon balm that has the effect on GABA transaminase. IIRC, it's a flavonoid. It would also be worth checking for other phytochemicals with GABA-transaminase-inhibiting properties, and then cross-referencing the list with the known phytochemicals of guayusa, and with those of the particular species and variety of mint you are interested in. ("Mint" is distinctly vague term covering a huge range of plants.)
 
Transform said:
Can you provide a reference for the paper?
Click to expand...
Well, certainly sir,

Research Findings:

  • A study by Martin et al. (2016) analyzed the amino acid composition of Ilex guayusa leaves and reported the presence of L-theanine.

References

  1. Martin, G., et al. (2016). "Amino Acid Composition of Ilex guayusa and Other Holly Species." Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry. DOI: 10.1021/acs.jafc.6b03237.
 
 
Transform said:
According to the ACS site, this paper does not exist. Did Chat GPT hallucinate it for you?

Chat GPT is not a reliable source for scientific references. You must always check their veracity before sharing.
Click to expand...
I guess you are right, after searching for some time I need to throw in towel.
 
All is not lost!
Julius Schuster, Ellen S. Mitchell,
More than just caffeine: psychopharmacology of methylxanthine interactions with plant-derived phytochemicals,
Progress in Neuro-Psychopharmacology and Biological Psychiatry,
Volume 89,
2019,
Pages 263-274,
ISSN 0278-5846,

Abstract

In general, preparations of coffee, teas, and cocoa containing high levels of polyphenols, L-theanine and other bioactive compounds selectively enhance mood and cognition effects of caffeine. This review summarizes the bioactive components of commonly consumed natural caffeine sources (e.g. guayusa, mate and camellia teas, coffee and cocoa) and analyzes the psychopharmacology of constituent phytochemicals: methylxanthines, polyphenols, and L-theanine. Acute and chronic synergistic effects of these compounds on mood and cognition are compared and discussed. Specific sets of constituent compounds such as polyphenols, theobromine and L-theanine appear to enhance mood and cognition effects of caffeine and alleviate negative psychophysiological effects of caffeine. However, more research is needed to identify optimal combinations and ratios of caffeine and phytochemicals for enhancement of cognitive performance.
Click to expand...
Open access too - fill your boots!
 
Transform said:
All is not lost!
Julius Schuster, Ellen S. Mitchell,
More than just caffeine: psychopharmacology of methylxanthine interactions with plant-derived phytochemicals,
Progress in Neuro-Psychopharmacology and Biological Psychiatry,
Volume 89,
2019,
Pages 263-274,
ISSN 0278-5846,


Open access too - fill your boots!
Click to expand...
You are a type of guy who would read the whole paper prior to just sharing it right now, to make sure it actually contains the relevant information.
 
Transform said:
This seems to be the actual reference for the guayusa/theanine claim:
L.G. Sequeda-Castañeda, G. Modesti Costa, C. Celis, F. Gamboa, S. Gutiérrez, P. Luengas
Ilex guayusa loes (Aquifoliaceae): amazon and andean native plant
Pharmacology, 3 (2016), pp. 193-202
Click to expand...
This link might get you the pdf...
 
Personally caffeine does give me a headache and harmala especially, harmaline doesn't help much in that respect either. Although it is my understanding and correct me if I am wrong that guayusa is lower in caffeine than coffee.
 
_Trip_ said:
guayusa is lower in caffeine than coffee.
Click to expand...
Doesnt really say much, as it depends on how much of each substance you consume.
I can make a strong (guayusa-only) brew of 40g and place it in a bottle near my bed upon waking I would drink a small sip. This will still have an effect when I try to sleep in the night.
 
josboaz said:
That's a myth
Click to expand...
I think it depends on the person and the doses involved. Harmala inhibits the metabolism of caffeine and, IME, can also retroactively displace it from some physiological binding site or other causing quite intense cardiovascular stimulation.
_Trip_ said:
Personally caffeine does give me a headache and harmala especially, harmaline doesn't help much in that respect either. Although it is my understanding and correct me if I am wrong that guayusa is lower in caffeine than coffee.
Click to expand...
Quite - it's a YMMV kind of situation, we're all different.

Some wild varieties of guayusa have been found to contain up to 7.6% caffeine, at least according to Lewis et al. in J. Ethnopharmacol. (1991) 33: 25 - 30 "Ritualistic Use of the Holly Ilex guayusa by Amazonian Jibaro [sic] Indians", as cited by Rätsch in "Enzyklopädie der psychoaktive Pflanzen" (1998/2020).
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ritualistic use of the holly Ilex guayusa by Amazonian Jívaro Indians - PubMed

In Amazonian Peru and Ecuador leaf decoctions of the rainforest holly Ilex guayusa with high caffeine concentrations are used as a morning stimulant. After daily ingestion, ritualistic vomiting by male Achuar Indians, better known as Jívaros, reduces excessive caffeine intake, so that blood...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
The usual caffeine content is nearer the 3% level, however.
 
Transform said:
I think it depends on the person and the doses involved. Harmala inhibits the metabolism of caffeine and, IME, can also retroactively displace it from some physiological binding site or other causing quite intense cardiovascular stimulation.
Click to expand...
That was my understanding too.

Agree transform definately person dependant.

I must of been thinking of yarba mate, iirc one of them is lower in content on average.
 
Back
Top Bottom