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Harmala & Guayusa?

The usual caffeine content is nearer the 3% level, however
I must of been thinking of yarba mate, iirc one of them is lower in content on average.
I may have overstated the guayusa caffeine content after skimming that one paper, other sources state more like 1.7 - 1.8%; I. paraguariensis is listed as being in the 0.4 - 1.6% range for caffeine, with 0.3 - 0.45% of theobromine. Guayusa has a lesser amount of theobromine, 0.003 - 0.12% so they end up falling into the same ballpark range for total methylxanthines.
 
That's a myth
Well me among others that I've heard have experienced that harmalas can interact in a strong way with coffee. I had to lay down for a few hours, feeling major nausea from movements., when I had harmalas some hour after a jug of black coffee. I've also noticed a potentiation of caffeine at times. A user here (ShamensStamen*) has written about it, "... Caffeine is metabolized by CYP1A2 which Harmine/Harmalas potently inhibit...'

[*MOD NOTE: == @Sabnock1990 ]
 
Well me among others that I've heard have experienced that harmalas can interact in a strong way with coffee. I had to lay down for a few hours, feeling major nausea from movements., when I had harmalas some hour after a jug of black coffee. I've also noticed a potentiation of caffeine at times. A user here (ShamensStamen) has written about it, "... Caffeine is metabolized by CYP1A2 which Harmine/Harmalas potently inhibit...'
This topic is about Guayusa, not coffee, I do not drink coffee and thus never combined coffee with Harmala. My question revolved around using Guayusa as an add mixture with Harmala. In case I need a stimulant I will choose Guayusa over coffee any day of the week as Guayusa is vastly superior to coffee. Drinking coffee makes you less tired, drinking Guausa wakes you up. Coffee will give you a sudden crash, Guayusa will enter and exist slowly in/out of your bloodstream. Coffee only has caffeine which makes a person jitterish, hence nootropic geeks add L-theanine to their caffeine stack. Guauyusa has L-theanine by default which balances the jitterish effects from caffeine. And I can go on and on about Guayusa. I never experienced any negative effects from taking high doses of Guayusa in combination with relatively high doses of Harmala, no headaches whatsoever. Hence I replied that it was a myth, does my anecdotal experience count as definitive proof, no but the same argument can be made about other people's reports about whether caffeine and Harmala can be a good or bad combo. To clarify my earlier statement:
"Harmala and caffine sounds like a headache"
It's a myth based on my subjective experience with these substances referring to Harmala in combination with Ilex Guayusa
 
Ime whether coffee, or tea, or caffeinated sodas or what not, Caffeine is definitely potentiated by the Harmalas' CYP1A2 inhibition, which the CYP1A2 inhibition also potentiates my night time med Tizanidine. As a general rule, regardless of Caffeine source, i would always recommend people to take it slow and easy with Caffeine with CYP1A2 inhibited, even a few small sips of soda for example will be equal in strength to like 2 to 3 cups of Coffee, but i do usually dose heavy on the Harmalas so i have pretty strong CYP1A2 inhibition going on from the Harmalas. And CYP1A2 is like transiently inhibited, so like there's certain timeframes for the CYP1A2 inhibition ime, especially as the dosage and thus duration of Harmalas increases. Personally i haven't noticed any true adverse reactions to Caffeine/coffee with my Aya, with that said though coffee can increase the Cholinergic effects of the Harmalas which can bring out like dizziness and motion sickness and such, but as far as i know that's likely due to the Harmala composition of coffee whereas pure Caffeine like in soda has never really given me those side-effects, in fact pure Caffeine feels pure and isolated so i find it cleaner and perhaps a bit better to use rather than coffee. As for Guayusa, i haven't tried it but i'll look into it and hopefully try it at some point, sounds like a cool plant.
 
with that said though coffee can increase the Cholinergic effects of the Harmalas which can bring out like dizziness and motion sickness and such, but as far as i know that's likely due to the Harmala composition of coffee whereas pure Caffeine like in soda has never really given me those side-effects, in fact pure Caffeine feels pure and isolated so i find it cleaner and perhaps a bit better to use rather than coffee. As for Guayusa, i haven't tried it but i'll look into
It's a myth based on my subjective experience with these substances referring to Harmala in combination with Ilex Guayusa
It looks like there's a basis for understanding your subjective experience in terms of the differing compositions of guayusa and coffee, but please consider how you express yourself:

Respectful communication

Watch your language. Communication is comprised of not only the explicit but also the implicit messages, which are transmitted through choice of words and general tone of speech. We do not want curse words and immature slang in the Nexus! Please use language in a dignified manner.
Not that you were cursing, but a more nuanced approach than simply stating "you are wrong" (such as "I feel my experience contradicts your assertion") would make for a smoother discussion.

Thanks go to @Sabnock1990 for throwing some light on the possible reasons behind the qualitative differences between coffee and guayusa in this respect. We can't entirely blame @_Trip_ for extrapolating between different caffeinated drinks -- guayusa may not be quite so easily available in certain parts of the world, making it something of a niche herb to be exploring. For me, it's far easier to get hold of I. paraguariensis (yerba maté) so at least you've (re-)aroused my curiosity regarding the combination of Ilex with harmala. Do you think it would be fair to extrapolate between guayusa and yerba maté?
 
Not that you were cursing, but a more nuanced approach than simply stating "you are wrong" (such as "I feel my experience contradicts your assertion") would make for a smoother discussion.
Excuse me, could you please point out where exactly I was disrespectful in my reply? As far as I am aware, I did not write "you are wrong."

It's a myth based on my subjective experience with these substances referring to Harmala in combination with Ilex Guayusa
I clarified my earlier statement in case someone asks me to provide the names of the scientific studies on which my opinions are based. I made sure to include that this statement is based on my own observations.
 
Excuse me, could you please point out where exactly I was disrespectful in my reply? As far as I am aware, I did not write "you are wrong."
You've chosen to use the word "disrespectful", that's not what I was saying. I will acknowledge your clarification, and also the value of @Sabnock1990's with respect to the ongoing discussion. I'll admit to being guilty of paraphrasing your earlier quote:
That's a myth
and also possibly choosing the wrong bit of the attitude to highlight (it has been very hot and humid today, making thinking a bit more difficult than usual ;) ) [if I even ought to have brought up at all, but that's what I've done and that's how it is.]
There's also this bit:

No confrontational attitude


Diversity, constructive criticism and differing opinions are welcome. Nobody has to unquestioningly agree with everything in this community. Nevertheless, we do not want a confrontational attitude, members that are constantly antagonistic, that turn arguments into fights and worsen the atmosphere. We don't appreciate dramas or excessive sarcastic posting. If one is not happy with a discussion, respectfully state why or don't post at all. Don't use the Nexus for venting your personal frustrations, please question yourself why is each post being written, if it is beneficial to the community. Please tell any moderators if you have a legitimate complaint or suggestion about the forums, but be patient and don't fuel drama. We are constantly trying to improve this community and need your help and patience for it.
Both of the passages refer more to the extremes of where discussions can go; we're aiming for a co-operative exploration of a question so perhaps I've been a bit heavy-handed in my attempts to articulate the need for wariness when stating matters of personal opinion in terms of absolutes. And I'll have to admit, this passage right from the start left me a bit sceptical about your ability to formulate a meaningful question:
Right now I want to know if Mint and Guayusa have similar chemicals, or if there is someone that mixes Guayusa with Harmala?
What was your reasoning in thinking that there might be similar substances in lemon balm, mint and guayusa? They probably all contain some amount of chlorogenic acid besides the ubiqiutous chlorophyll and other essential components of a plant's primary metabolism. What kind of information would you find to be the most useful?

It's also difficult to appreciate fully how any given individual's personal semantic mappings may vary from those of others, not to mention their persona; communication styles along with the degree to which various forms of humour may be received. Using anything other than one's native tongue can also be a minefield (and I was never quite sure if English was your first language or not; I feel I have a strong appreciation for this type of issue and tend to give a good amount of leeway as a result) so let's just get back to the matter at hand and see if there's any more of the discussion to be had.


I, for one, would try combining guayusa with harmalas if I had the opportunity; more likely I'd just try it with the more readily-available [OTC, in my part of the world] yerba maté. I'm wondering, too, if there would be a difference in between the harmine +THH effects of caapi compared with the usually harmaline-heavy effects of rue. Higher doses of rue will prevent me from sleeping to the extent that if I drink a strong dose of rue tea and promptly fall asleep it will wake me up again within about an hour. In that sense, it seems like an unnecessary accoutrement unless, perhaps, I'd happen to be using a harmine-only RIMA dose earlier in the day. Yet another case of YMMV, really.

Caffeine tablets would provide another way of testing the interaction of caffeine with harmalas while controlling for confounding factors from other components of any given plant preparation. It would also be relatively easy to isolate caffeine from the tablets if one was determined to eliminate even the effects of tableting agents and the commonly co-administered glucose.

What form of harmalas do you typically use? Have you combined them with any other caffeinated products before?
 
What was your reasoning in thinking that there might be similar substances in lemon balm, mint and guayusa? They probably all contain some amount of chlorogenic acid besides the ubiqiutous chlorophyll and other essential components of a plant's primary metabolism. What kind of information would you find to be the most useful?
I just wanted to know if Ilex Guayusa has similar chemicals as Lemon Balm, in the sense that the effects of the mareación (trip) of Harmala will be altered. Lemon Balm effects Harmala in a way that it becomes smoother.

*mareación means sickness and dizziness, I use it as a substitute for the word 'trip'
Mareación — the collective effects of the ayahuasca experience. When one is under the influence of ayahuasca, when one feels the medicine, they are said to be mareado(a). It comes from the Spanish word “mar,” which means sea. Mareado, then, is a way to describe a feeling of dizziness or seasickness. This can be further extrapolated to imply a general state of altered consciousness induced by ayahuasca.
Higher doses of rue will prevent me from sleeping to the extent that if I drink a strong dose of rue tea and promptly fall asleep it will wake me up again within about an hour.

If you wake up after an hour, then you not drinking enough, I would make a strong brew 30g and drink a few sips, then 7 hours later I would get hungry and drink another few sips. This will continue and before I know it, I will be staying up (again) for 36 hours. This happened so many times now I lost count.

*"then you not drinking enough" I'm not implying you should replicate that I just confirming your observation.
What form of harmalas do you typically use? Have you combined them with any other caffeinated products before?
I only take Peganum Harmala, I have made extracts in the past just as everybody else, but I think it's too much work for nothing basically. You are busy a full week, for something that will not last for more than 3 days if you consume it the whole day. As for Bansisteriopsis variants, it cost around €85/$90,98 for 1kg/2.2lbs, while Harmala cost me €35/$37,46 for 1kg/2.2lbs.

Plus, as you know Harmala can get you rocked at 10g while Banisteriopsis doses are going up to 100g. I am not going to pay €8.5/$9.9 for a causal mareación. If it's a big ceremony then yes, but not something I want to pay for an everyday experience. Also when I take Harmala I feel I have taken something, depending on the dose I'm either chilling or getting floored. I tried a Banisteriopsis Muricata-only-brew with 100g or so and did not experience much from it, I do not remember if I drank everything tho...

As for the question if I tried other caffeinated products (with Harmala), no because I do not consume stimulants as I do not need them, also I do not feel the need to discover what will happen when I mix xzy-stimulant with Harmala. I'm not curious about their effects, I just added Guayusa as I read that hunters consume it to sharpen their minds and senses. I thought that might be a good add mixture to Harmala brews. You know more mental alertness, less mental fatigue. I read the following about Ilex Guayusa.
Theobromine: Which causes a higher body activity
Caffeine: Rreduces fatigue and increases alertness
L-theanine: Increases mental alertness
 
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