[Harmalas] MAOI Drug Interaction Disclaimer

[dreamer042]

WARNING: There are very dangerous interactions between any MAOIs (including harmalas) and many commonly used recreational drugs and medications, including SSRI medications (such as prozac) and stimulants (such as MDMA and other amphetamines) as well as many others. If you're taking SSRI's, do not consume MAOIs!! Do not mix stimulants with MAOIs either! Mixing stimulants or medications with MAOIs can lead to Hypertensive Crisis, Serotonin Syndrome, and even death. For a more complete list of pharmaceuticals and substances that should NEVER be taken when consuming harmalas, check List 1 and List 2.

Please see the attached safe usage guide for more detailed information.

 

[weirdoigo]

I had a look at the attached PDF and didn't find something I was looking for: any indication on the time-frame for safety between use of MAOI and MDMA.

Chat-GPT has suggested 72-hours minimum, but ideally 5 or 7 days. But I've found most psychonauts dismissive of GPT's guidelines.

Does anyone here have a ballpark of what they consider a safe timeframe to resume usage?

 

[northape]

Chat-GPT has suggested 72-hours minimum

Yeah, 72h after harmalas is a minimum. That's just enough time to get harmalas out of your system.
How it influences other factors is a good question. I'd suggest a week, too. Just to be on the safe side.
I have no idea about MDMA, and it's just a general guideline. Good luck.

 

[blig-blug]

I had a look at the attached PDF and didn't find something I was looking for: any indication on the time-frame for safety between use of MAOI and MDMA.

Chat-GPT has suggested 72-hours minimum, but ideally 5 or 7 days. But I've found most psychonauts dismissive of GPT's guidelines.

Does anyone here have a ballpark of what they consider a safe timeframe to resume usage?

72 hours is the minimum, yes, the rationale is here: MAOI half life - Harmalas - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I wouldn't be surprised if the presence of that post in the training dataset was the reason why it suggests that. The problem with LLMs is that it can incidentally be true or not, and you'll get a convincing "explanation" either way. So they can be useful as a starting point, but never rely on them for critical data such as substance interactions.

 

[weirdoigo]

The problem with LLMs is that it can incidentally be true or not, and you'll get a convincing "explanation" either way. So they can be useful as a starting point, but never rely on them for critical data such as substance interactions.

true.
what's your go-to? I have the old trip safe chart, but other than that I don't know where else to go.
If not for GPT I would have figured it was fine after the 6 hour effect window. all the charts say is what not to do at the same time, no information about how close in proximity is too close.

 

[blig-blug]

true.
what's your go-to? I have the old trip safe chart, but other than that I don't know where else to go.
If not for GPT I would have figured it was fine after the 6 hour effect window. all the charts say is what not to do at the same time, no information about how close in proximity is too close.

In general, you can assume a substance to have left your body after a minimum of 5 or 6 half lives. You just need to look up the elimination half life for the substance and multiply by 5. Bear in mind that will be a minimum, and the actual half life will vary from individual to individual.

The additional "problem" with harmala extracts is that they have more than one substance, so you have to take into account the substance with the longest half life of them.

For checking substance interactions, Psychonaut Wiki and Wikipedia are useful. Also drug interaction checkers (meant for medical drugs). For example, you can check if a drug interacts with moclobemide, and if it does, you know it will very likely interact with harmalas too, as they both are RIMAs. It not interacting with moclobemide won't guarantee that it doesn't interact with harmalas, but if it does, the mechanism won't be related to MAO inhibition, which is the most dangerous in the case of harmalas.

There is no problem with using ChatGPT or other LLMs as a starting point. Just always confirm whatever you find with reliable sources, such as the above. Also, you can use Google to search on the DMT Nexus, it works better than the forum search feature. Just add "site:dmt-nexus.me" to your query and it will limit the search to the Nexus. For example, after seeing that ChatGPT suggests waiting for a minimum of 72 hours, you can google "site:dmt-nexus.me harmala half life 72 hours" and the thread I linked above will actually be the first or one of the first results. In summary, use it more like a hints machine than a facts machine.

 

[weirdoigo]

last thing I'll add: GPT has also suggested that while MDMA is a 'very high' risk, 2C-B should also be considered a 'high' risk and the same 5-7 day (72 hour bare minimum) safety window should be observed in relation to harmalas.

 

[blig-blug]

MDMA is extremely high risk with harmalas because it induces serotonin release. The MAOI effect means that the body won't be able to get rid of that serotonin fast enough, so it can get too high and cause serotonin syndrome, which is potentially deadly.
2C-B doesn't cause serotonin release, but it does increase blood pressure and has stimulant effects. I think mixing any phenethylamine with harmalas is risky, but I don't know exactly how risky. It's almost for sure less risky than with MDMA. I couldn't find reports of mixing 2C-B with harmalas on the Nexus, but some people have mixed them with mescaline: Intro to Mescaline and Harmalas - Experience reports - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus In any case, exercise caution with any such mix. And always test your 2C-B to make sure it is, in fact, 2C-B.

 

[weirdoigo]

2C-B doesn't cause serotonin release, but it does increase blood pressure and has stimulant effects. I think mixing any phenethylamine with harmalas is risky, but I don't know exactly how risky. It's almost for sure less risky than with MDMA. I couldn't find reports of mixing 2C-B with harmalas on the Nexus, but some people have mixed them with mescaline

the AI claim was MDMA = "massive serotonin release" 2C-B = "mixed serotonin release + receptor activity"

doesn't surprise me that mesc. alone would be safe, as it's the non-mesc-like half of MDMA (the stimulant, and other similar stimulants) that seems to be the danger.

 

[blig-blug]

2C-B = "mixed serotonin release

Well, whatever mixed serotonin release means, this is a good example of how LLMs generate confident sounding answers regardless of their truth. 2C-B doesn't cause any serotonin release whatsoever, as far as I know:

2C-B - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2C-B

4-Bromo-2,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine (also known as Nexus, Bromo Mescaline, BDMPEA, Venus, and 2C-B) is a novel psychedelic substance of the phenethylamine class. It is perhaps the most well-known member of the 2C-x family, which are structurally related to the classical psychedelic mescaline...

psychonautwiki.org

So definitely check whatever supposed facts the generated text claims, and never rely on it for safety advice.