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Harmaloids by themselves?

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S

SpasticSpaz

Rising Star
SWIM has a rather large quantity of relatively pure Syrian Rue extract and he was wondering how are the effects of harmaloids by themselves (ie, without DMT or bufotenine)? Is it worthwhile?

What dosage should SWIM take for best effects? Which route of administration?
 
Dosage depends on how much harmine vs harmaline there is. Harmaline is about twice as potent as harmine.

SWIM likes 200 mg of harmine alone. That's a very nice psychoactive dose for SWIM.

With harmaline, he prefers 100 mg. 200 mg of harmaline is too much. You'll get nauseated.

With THH, he prefers 300 mg. No more than that though.

Those doses are all oral doses.
 
That's curious in light of Harmine (which is likely the main component of the extract) supposedly being a CNS stimulant. What does "alot" mean and what are the effects of a high dose such as that?
 
Harmine is not sedating neither is THH. Harmaline is the only one that is sedating.

Harmaline overpowers harmine. It's twice as strong. So even if your extract is 2/3 harmine, harmaline will contribute in equal amounts. So with rue, you always get a sedating harmaline experience as part of it.
 
Harmaline is also twice as toxic as harmine. While 200 mg of harmine feels fantastic on it's own. 200 mg of harmaline will likely make you sick and sedated, as well as tripped out.

All of these alkaloids are psychedelic if enough is taken.

THH is the most like a true psychedelic. But for psychedelic effect from THH, you need 350 + mg orally. At that dosage it's very psychedelic, but also causes nausea and dizziness.

Harmine is psychedelic at 200 mg +. It takes about 300 mg of harmine to cause nausea and dizziness.

Harmaline is psychedelic at 100 mg +. It takes about 200 mg of harmaline to cause nausea and dizziness.

Harmaline is very sedating. Harmine is stimulating and THH is slightly stimulating. All three relax the mind a little though. Harmaline is more of a heavy duty drug. Harmine and THH are generally more pleasant with THH being the most pleasant of the three.
 
[quote='Coatl]Ya that is what I was refering to... Syrian Rue.

I even find THH to be slightly sedating in a way.
[/quote]

Low doses of THH do give a somewhat tranquil peaceful feeling, sort of a light sedation, but higher doses cause definite CNS stimulation. The same is true for harmine. The opposite is true for harmaline, which is quite odd. Very low doses are harmaline are slightly stimulating while higher doses are definitely sedating. It's great as a cure for insomnia.
 
[quote='Coatl]Fairly sedating.

No much else unless you take alot.
[/quote]ILPT is incapacitated on higher doses(because of vertigo and dizziness) but just cannot fall asleep.... it`s really weird effect it`s hard to describe.... but he wouldn`t describe it as sedating

69ron said:
Harmaline is also twice as toxic as harmine. While 200 mg of harmine feels fantastic on it's own. 200 mg of harmaline will likely make you sick and sedated, as well as tripped out.

All of these alkaloids are psychedelic if enough is taken.

THH is the most like a true psychedelic. But for psychedelic effect from THH, you need 350 + mg orally. At that dosage it's very psychedelic, but also causes nausea and dizziness.

Harmine is psychedelic at 200 mg +. It takes about 300 mg of harmine to cause nausea and dizziness.

Harmaline is psychedelic at 100 mg +. It takes about 200 mg of harmaline to cause nausea and dizziness.

Harmaline is very sedating. Harmine is stimulating and THH is slightly stimulating. All three relax the mind a little though. Harmaline is more of a heavy duty drug. Harmine and THH are generally more pleasant with THH being the most pleasant of the three.
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It`s there chance that harmalas (on it`s own) act differently on male and female brain ???

Ilpt wan`t offer them to a mate`s girlfriend and if it wouldn`t work he would taste shame:oops:

There is a big difference btw. harmaline and harmine but ILPT wouldn`t say they are sedating
 
69ron, when you are taking the Harmalas orally, are you using gel-caps, mixing into a liquid & drinking it, or something else?

I've found that when I use gel-caps, it takes so long to fully dissolve & release all of the contents, that the effects not only come on slower, but it seems like they never actually reach their full potential.

I'm assuming this is from the capsule slowly dissolving & only allowing small amounts of the Harmala powder to be digested over time & it's not quick enough to get the full effects.
I da know...

I usually mix them into a swig of orange juice now & the effects start sooner & come on fuller.


WS
 
Harmalas are quite psychoactive if taken at a psychoactive dose.

3-5 grams of rue seeds crushed and shaken in a cup of slightly acidic water overnight, filtered, and drank produces profound effects. Not necessarily recreational or worthy of repeating often, but definitely an experience worth trying. The effect is close to alcohol inebriation in the way it destabilizes your balance and motor control. The physical body buzz is very interesting with continuous pulses and waves of energy passing through you. Massively unmistakable rippling of the outline boundaries of objects occurs and extreme tracers can be noticed from all light sources and contrasting areas of light and dark. An overall lucid state of mind remains but waves of euphoria, light headedness, and moderate disorientation prevail over the entire experience.

The nausea can be unbelievably bad though so watch out. Start your doses low, fast a little but not too much (3-5 hours max), eat a small amount of starchy food when you ingest the harmalas to try to buffer it a little. You probably want to be outside in the wild and not in public (just anywhere that you can handle puking a lot if nausea takes hold). Good camping experience with trusted companions and a safe environment.

It is absolutely useful for anyone working with any of this stuff in combination with anything else to try them by them self to the brink of the high dose (but under nausea if you're lucky) to completely understand what aspects of combined effects are coming from what elements that you are combining.

Oral DMT taken with a pharmaceutical RIMA like Moclobemide (which has no noticeable 'harmala like' effects at the minimum dose necessary to activate DMT orally) is surprisingly boring and limited in depth. It has none of the amazingness that you associate with DMT, instead only manifesting generic tryptamine effects. The unique and profound qualities of Pharmahuasca and Ayahuasca are due to the combination with these harmalas. They are extremely interesting (legal) compounds capable of taking hallucinogens to unbelievable places. Any psychonaut worth their salt should develop an understanding of their isolated effects from personal, first hand, bio assay.

NO OFFENSE to anyone here but don't take "fairly sedating" as an even remotely accurate description of what they can do on their own (particularly harmaline and harmine in the ratios that they occur in rue). Be safe.
 
freethinker said:
It is absolutely useful for anyone working with any of this stuff in combination with anything else, to try them by them self to the brink of the high dose (but under nausea if you're lucky) to completely understand what aspects of combined effects are coming from what elements that you are combining.
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Very good point all around!!


WS
 
warrensaged said:
69ron, when you are taking the Harmalas orally, are you using gel-caps, mixing into a liquid & drinking it, or something else?

I've found that when I use gel-caps, it takes so long to fully dissolve & release all of the contents, that the effects not only come on slower, but it seems like they never actually reach their full potential.

I'm assuming this is from the capsule slowly dissolving & only allowing small amounts of the Harmala powder to be digested over time & it's not quick enough to get the full effects.
I da know...

I usually mix them into a swig of orange juice now & the effects start sooner & come on fuller.

WS
Click to expand...

SWIM dissolves them in peppermint tea or usually coffee. They don’t work well in capsules. You end up wasting a lot that way.
 
I got some crazy visuals from 250mg crude rue extract in water with citric acid 35 minutes after a strong cup of black coffee. It was like seeing life on a multi-screen tv setup with an awful lot of trails.

Standing up wasn't much fun, but when I didn't need the toilet it was very tranquil and dreamy. Much cliche' hand waving and the like.
 
Bumping this as SWIM finally got around to to trying this.

He took ~120 mg in some orange juice, and drank some heavily ginger infused tea just prior as a nausea prophylactic (He wasn't expecting nausea at this dosage level, but better safe than sorry).

What struck him the most was how much like indica heavy cannabis it was. He spent much of it lying on his bed, grinning stupidly (it was quite euphoric) Also, it greatly enhanced music, made it seem much more resonant, deep, and full. The visuals were actually lighter than cannabis, just some light trails, barely noticeable. It was a little mentally clouding, and he felt quite a bit less stable on his feet. The mental effects were very interesting: SWIM found that he had very dream-like "visions" in his head. Not CEVs, as they weren't appearing in front of his eyes, but rather within in his mind; Something similar happens on cannabis, though less intensely so.

All in all, a lovely, very chill experience. SWIM thinks he'll try a higher dose next time to try and get some visuals, but he thinks he'll definitely revisit this dose level again in the future.
 
Report #2: 200 mg, once again, orally and prefaced with ginger tea.

SWIM reports this was NOT pleasant at all. The visual at first were kind of nice, sharp tracers (focused primarily on edges) and strobiness of lights, with slight color alterations. However, they continued to grow in strength till SWIM's visual field was a over-stimulating confusion of lines. At the same time, audio became weirdly pulse-y. Sounds seemed to echo, as well as time-dilate in a weird fashion. SWIM also felt POWERFUL full body twinges. They would come in attacks, and SWIM felt like he was being shocked with an electric current. SWIM's brain became so confused that he couldn't think at all. He tried listening to music, but the sound just overstimulated him and made things even more confused. He wasn't even able to change his clothes, he was so scattered. This morning, when he woke up, the tracer-ing was still present, as well as a kind of residual mental cloudiness/clumsiness.

There may have been nausea, but SWIM was too wacked out to tell.

SWIM is shocked by how sharp the dosage curve is, and will have to remember never to go this high again.
 
SWIM also felt POWERFUL full body twinges. They would come in attacks, and SWIM felt like he was being shocked with an electric current.
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Anonymous on the ayahuasca forum talks about these electric shocks. But he likens it more to a massage. I think it is something that has to be relaxed into and accepted. Then it may become a good thing.
 
harmalas are some of the most beautiful compounds out there. the ratios in cappi w/o any admixtures added produce such feelings of bliss. Like rushes of energy. amazingmazubobitron. even better if you bobble your head from shoulder to shoulder while under the influence.
 
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