• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

harmine/harmaline tolerance?

Migrated topic.
jamie

jamie

Esteemed member
Senior Member
OG Pioneer
Senior member
I have been wondering about this for a while now..concidering harmine and harmaline both have strong NMDA antagonistic effects, which seem to account for at least part of the visionary/psychedelic effects of these beta carbolines..and other NMDA antagonists like ketamine and MXE etc have rapid tolerance that builds..even ibogaine some people claim to build some tolerance..but I have never heard of anyone claiming to experience harmala tolerance building even with daily use. I have ingested low doses daily for months now, with a full dose of ayahuasca weekly and sometimes I will dose harmine/harmaline in higher doses without DMT one night a week as well..I dont seem to be tolerant. I can feel it still after months even if I take like 10-15mg sublingual..

All I can really find is this from MAPS..


They dont really go into specificis though, just mention that people are known to redose with ayahuasca with no tolerance and drink daily for prolonged periods..

Can anyone explain why there is not a tolerance issue with harmine or harmaline?..is it becasue they are so close in structure to other endogenous beta carbolines and tryptolines?

Also I would like to hear from others that also take harmalas on a regular basis and do not experience tolerance to the visionary/dissociative//psychedelic effects of them..or do have tolerance if there is anyone here who expieriences it.
 
..in my own experience, and a couple of others, repeated use of whole plant harmala sources led, slightly, to the opposite of tolerance..i.e. increased sensitivity to the compounds, requiring smaller doses..
..as some have implicated harmalas in dream-vision mechanisms [J. Callaway], you may be right about endogenous substances having no (or little) tolerance...
 
actaully yes I have noticed the same thing..reverse tolerance..and at the same time I have become more acustomed to the nausea and shaking that harmalas can induce..as if my body learned how to deal with those side effects while at the same time gaining deeper access to the visionary/dream states..

Pinoline should be released in the brain every single night so tolerance would seem logical that there might not be any tolerance..other beta carbolines like 10-methoxy-harmalan are also endogenous, though I dont know what it's role is exactly..
 
I've experienced reverse-tolerance for harmalas, though I'm not entirely it's a physiological phenomena. Like with LSD, once I learned how to really use it, I could go much further on lower doses than before. House's theory regarding building a neurological infrastructure for dealing with the DMT experience might also apply here.

I get approximately zero nausea from harmine strong brews like that "4x" powder and only a bit more nausea from harmaline strong mixes, like rue extractions. This happened progressively over time, at first I would purge for hours. The shaking still comes on for me though, especially at high doses.
 
I do experience a tolerance to visuals on the harmalas. If I wait a month or two there will be more visuals. Taking the same dose a few days later results in markedly less visuals.
 
^hmm thats odd..does this still occur if you take daily microdoses for a while, then then take a full dose one day? Will you still have tolerance to the larger dose? When you say "visuals", do you mean actaul visuals or the deeper dreamlike visions that come from the harmalas? Also, if you wait just a week you still have tolerance?
 
I've been taking harmalas just about every night for the better half of a year and sensitivity seems to increase over time, like you said, while at the same time higher doses feel much more comfortable than before. Audio hallucinations seem to be more common than when i started this as well

I have experienced some variability in the depth of the experience even with the same dosage, but i don't think it has to do with tolerance. Many night in a row i've taken higher doses and no noticeable tolerance was felt, but it can be very different even with the same dosage-and sometimes even lower doses are deeper than a previous higher dose.. I'm not sure why some would experience tolerance while others don't

But I think for me a lot of it has to do with what i've eaten that day and my psychological state before/during the experience, and my ability to let go into the trance while maintaining awareness. Interestingly, probably the strongest 200mg of rue harmalas has been for me was the night before a drug test for this job.. I had been drinking a massive amount of water throughout the day and night and didn't think it would kick in nearly as strong as it did
 
yeah that is basically how I feel. I experience no tolerance at all it seems even with daily low doses and large doses 1-2 times a week..I still have visions and I have even sort of learned how to bring myself deeper into it and navigate the space somewhat.

I can drink 80g of caapi one day, and the next night take 15mg of harmalas under my tounge before bed, and I will still be able to achieve mild medative effects etc from the dose even though it is still so small..then take 50mg the next day and have deep dreams/visions with a very theraputic medative/introspective state of mind.
 
jamie said:
^hmm thats odd..does this still occur if you take daily microdoses for a while, then then take a full dose one day? Will you still have tolerance to the larger dose? When you say "visuals", do you mean actaul visuals or the deeper dreamlike visions that come from the harmalas? Also, if you wait just a week you still have tolerance?
Click to expand...
When I say visuals I mean seeing energy beams, waves moving, scenes etc. I do also experience thoughts and understandings about my life, but I don't know about deeper dreamlike visions. Could you describe them?

Both the visuals and the thoughts about life does seem to diminish at the same dose, although the visuals more so. I am not sure how it would be if I microdosed for a while beforehand.

I experience no tolerance to the dmt inhibiting effects.
 
When I talk abotu harmala dream I mean being pulled somewhere. I will be laying in bed, maybe with closed eye visuals maybe not, feeling the harmalas, but then all of a sudden its like I actaully fell asleap-except I did not and I have these visionary dream sequences that last maybe 10-20 seconds or longer..usually fragmented but sometimes not and they often seem to leave me with some useful message or tell a story. Hard to explain. It's like inbetween a dream and an OBE I guess..when they happen at least 50% of the time I dont even know it is happening or that I dosed, it really is like falling asleap in that sense..the ego is gone but you font go through any ego death in the way you do with tryptamines..then I snap out of it and into just normal visuals etc and lay there until it happens again.
 
Back
Top Bottom