Help needed with Salvia

[Cufko]

Hello guys. You might remember me, a while ago I posted a thread about my first trip with salvia, or so I thought. I dried some leaves from Salvia Officinalis, because I thought it's the same, now I know that the Salvia in my garden isn't the thing I was looking for.

I did however came to a conclusion that smoking Salvia Officinalis gives me a better awareness of dreams. But then, later, I would get a message from someone of the DMT-nexus crew:

Don't smoke mystery plants and please don't post about doing so here.

Okay.

Anyway I bought some dried leaves of Salvia Divinorum and now I need some help with it.

I tried smoking it twice, got similar effects. I felt warm, and I started to sweat. After a while I felt really uncomfortable, my skin became irritated and I got goose bumps. I did feel a little "high", but nothing like high on weed.
The first time I tried it, I was in my room and the TV was turned on. A movie started, and there was an opening music. I remember that the music was ... I don't know. It felt right. It was just like it should be, it kinda felt like it was narrating my actions, my life. I can't even explain. Then, my body started moving by itself, towards the bed (I remember myself putting my arm on my belly, like trying to keep the body where it was). I remember I almost couldn't stop it, and I really had to make an effort to sit down on the chair. I just wanted to know if I can do what I want with my body. Then I laid on my bed and closed my eyes, my skin was still irritated. And then nothing happened.

I smoked salvia with a bong and with a regular lighter, so I'm guessing this is the main mistake (not using a torch lighter). I smoked about ... one half of a gram, maybe more. I tried to hold the smoke in my lungs for as many time as I could, and I tried to smoke it all in 3 minutes, as recommended. What exactly am I doing wrong? Should I use a vaporiser maybe?

Also, I read that weed helps with the experience. Should I add some weed next time?

I only tried mushrooms and I smoke weed regularly, so I'm really new to this stuff. I would appreciate any newbie help I can get.

Thank you!

 

[Mangani]

Cufko,

Make sure the Salvia is strong enough. If you have experience with DMT, and other hallucinogens, the only potency that will benefit you is 50X or higher. You should take two good hits. If after the first hit you can still think about it- you are NOT on your trip. You should be comfortable, and in an empty room. You should have a mature spotter who makes sure you don't get yourself in any trouble.

I will warn you- a good Salvia trip is a HORRIBLE HELLISH experience. I do it all the time, but that's besides the point

Not everybody can take it. It's not like DMT where you see colors, and may see entities. You will have little to no control over your own body. Your body will be speaking and doing things, but your trip won't even be related. People may report you said things you didn't even say in your "dream." And your "dream"- you might get shot into a past memory, and will be confused when you find yourself on the floor sweating with an old group of friends, or family members you haven't seen in a while are telling you to get up. You might start melting into the floor. On my worst trip I was a pedal on a daisy rotating around the flower- spinning fast, and the whole time the sun was beating down on me... of course, I was in my living room at night, but in my "dream"...

I honestly don't recommend it to anybody, but give it freely to anybody who tells me they want to try it (my friends know I'm always stocked up). If you study the chemicals you may understand better what is going on. It's great for depression, or people on similar voyages as DMT travelers.

 

[Cufko]

I never tried DMT, but ... Well, I remember I didn't get as much effects when taking mushrooms as my other friends did. Only tried mushrooms twice tho, and never got good hallucinogenic effects. Maybe I should eat more of them, we only ate 1,5g.

I'd just like to get a good trip (I mean, even if it's a bad trip, I just wanna see what salvia is like), and all I currently have is dried leaves, not enhanced. What to do? :/

 

[gibran2]

Cufko,

Make sure the Salvia is strong enough. If you have experience with DMT, and other hallucinogens, the only potency that will benefit you is 50X or higher. You should take two good hits. If after the first hit you can still think about it- you are NOT on your trip. You should be comfortable, and in an empty room. You should have a mature spotter who makes sure you don't get yourself in any trouble.

I will warn you- a good Salvia trip is a HORRIBLE HELLISH experience. I do it all the time, but that's besides the point

Not everybody can take it. It's not like DMT where you see colors, and may see entities. You will have little to no control over your own body. Your body will be speaking and doing things, but your trip won't even be related. People may report you said things you didn't even say in your "dream." And your "dream"- you might get shot into a past memory, and will be confused when you find yourself on the floor sweating with an old group of friends, or family members you haven't seen in a while are telling you to get up. You might start melting into the floor. On my worst trip I was a pedal on a daisy rotating around the flower- spinning fast, and the whole time the sun was beating down on me... of course, I was in my living room at night, but in my "dream"...

I honestly don't recommend it to anybody, but give it freely to anybody who tells me they want to try it (my friends know I'm always stocked up). If you study the chemicals you may understand better what is going on. It's great for depression, or people on similar voyages as DMT travelers.

Just about everything you said is incorrect misinformation. Please refrain from stating your personal experiences as if they apply to everyone.

First of all, legitimate 50X salvia extract is likely unavailable commercially. The only way I know to get legitimate 50X would be to prepare it myself.

Next, 50X is totally unnecessary and not recommended. A strong dose of 50X is about 8mg, so it’s very difficult to measure without an analytical balance. For most people, 5X is strong enough to have very deep experiences without having to smoke very much. (A moderate dose is about 80mg).

The suggestion that one needs a higher strength extract if they have had experience with DMT is false. There is no relationship between required dose of Salvinorin A and prior experience with hallucinogens of which I’m aware. If you have a source, please post.

Your experiences may have been horrible and hellish, but when used in a responsible and respectful manner, salvia can lead to some very pleasant and meaningful experiences. Not euphoric in the way that DMT can be, but horrible and hellish? Nah.

 

[InsaneRoot]

Like Magnani said, a breakthrough experience on salvia is not one to be taken lightly! BUT the tricky thing with salvia IME is that if at first you dont succeed, dont try for like an hour lol. You build a tolerance after one try, after one or two hits you basically cant get any higher until its out of your system. Use a pipe, and a torch lighter, smoke it pure, and try to vaporize it as much as you can.

Personally, salvia makes me feel very uncomfortable and intense... i MUCH prefer mushrooms, even on a bad trip. if youre looking for a reeal good psychedelic experience, but cant find DMT (like me) get your hands on some shrooms. AND if you cant find shrooms, and youre using salvia as a last option, do a lil' search for "magic truffles" in google. happy tripping!

 

[Cufko]

Like Magnani said, a breakthrough experience on salvia is not one to be taken lightly! BUT the tricky thing with salvia IME is that if at first you dont succeed, dont try for like an hour lol. You build a tolerance after one try, after one or two hits you basically cant get any higher until its out of your system. Use a pipe, and a torch lighter, smoke it pure, and try to vaporize it as much as you can.

Personally, salvia makes me feel very uncomfortable and intense... i MUCH prefer mushrooms, even on a bad trip. if youre looking for a reeal good psychedelic experience, but cant find DMT (like me) get your hands on some shrooms. AND if you cant find shrooms, and youre using salvia as a last option, do a lil' search for "magic truffles" in google. happy tripping!

The time between my first try and the second try was 3 days ...
I can get mushrooms, and I'll try to make DMT out of some grass, but ATM I'd just like to try salvia. Can someone just ... answer my questions, please? :/
I'm sure I'll get myself a torch lighter, and I'll try it again with my bong.
Should I get myself a salvia extract?

 

[Vodsel]

To Cufko,

The effects you describe are frequent in the threshold of stronger experiences. Not that you are underdosing (the amount of salvinorin in 0,5g of leaf should be easily enough) but salvia can be tricky to get right the first times, particularly with plain leaf. It is safer, because it's much harder to accidentally ingest a high dose, but the more amount you have to smoke, the higher the proportion of actives that might get lost in the process, particularly when the smoking technique is not perfect yet.

Actually, if this was your first time, you got pretty decent effects for the amount you smoked, so it's not like you're doing anything wrong. A torch lighter might help to burn the herb faster and more efficiently so less smoke is lost. I'm not sure about the claims of torch lighters being more efficient due to vaporization temperature and other physical reasons, but I do prefer them because they allow for better control.

There are reports of vaporized salvia, but it can be difficult as a way of administration. Even if you got a vaporizer able to deliver salvinorin, my guess is that vaporization is less efficient than smoking, so I see no reason to change at the moment. Also keep in mind that, in any future times you smoke, you may get noticeably stronger effects with the same amount of leaf due to reverse tolerance. And since your technique will get better (also, if you use better tools) you probably will reach a little further every time with the same leaf weight. So I'd say keep this way.

In any case, please be careful. Use salvia only in a safe environment, and you can consider having a sitter if you want. The physical moving sensations you describe are common with the plant, but salvia is also a dissociative, so your body can move in a different way than you think it's moving. With more than a light salvia dose, makes sense to try and stay still - at least until you melt, fold or squeeze through something.

Regarding weed, I personally don't like mixing it with salvia but others might swear by it. And I would try again with plain leaf before going for any (low!!) extract.

Salvia can be incredible if you take your time to know her and do it gently. Be patient, read all you can get, yours does not sound like a bad start.

 

[InsaneRoot]

sorry for the misunderstanding, in that case, you might want to try to use a glass vaporizer if youre really having trouble. i used a lightbulb vaporizer for salvia once and it got the job done alot easier.

 

[Cufko]

Thank you all for your responses. Thanks a lot to Vodsel, I feel much better now actually.
But, would you mind explaining this reverse tolerance for me? Please?

I'll do some more research on vaporizers, because I really don't know anything about them. But I'd like to stick with my bong, because well, at least I know how to use it, and I like it, and idk where to get a vaporizer.

Now I'm thinking I only need to get myself a torch lighter and try again when I get it ...

P.S.
Damn, I keep editing my posts because there's always something in my mind I forgot to ask/say before.
I'd like to hear more opinions on mixing weed with salvia, I mean I read that it gives a better experience and that less salvia is needed to get some good effects if you mix it with weed.
Also, what about mixing it with tobacco? That's probably pointless, right?

Aaand ... I find it difficult to keep the salvia smoke in my lungs, I had no problems doing so with weed, in fact I was usually the one keeping the smoke in my lungs for the most time. Any advices? I used cold water, so the smoke wasn't hot, but it still caused me problems.

 

[jamie]

this is just my experience..but I have a lot of experience with salvia..

If you are feeling horrible, freaking out etc with salvia than you have not broken though. Yes you can feel like it's very intense and be stretching and pulling etc..but just for me personally on a true salvinorin breakthrough there is not much of this me left to really worry about how horrible this trip is. I am gone into another dimension 100%.

The roughest part about that for me is that comming back to this world feels like the trip..literally I feel like I have taken some drug turning me into this weird alien thing that I dont understand and I dont want my life back in that other world to be lost etc..then I realize this weird alien human life is my real life and I simply ingested salvinorin.

I dont know whats up with this whole deal about having to wait to smoke more either. I have never experienced the need to wait due to any tolerance.

 

[Vodsel]

would you mind explaining this reverse tolerance for me?

Reverse tolerance works the opposite way to tolerance. Tolerance is, the more you use a compound, the less effects you get from it. Reverse tolerance indicates that as you keep using a compound, you slowly keep getting stronger effects.

Many people who has used salvia for some time reports this. The reason why salvia shows reverse tolerance is not well known. You could imagine your brain chemistry getting acquainted with the experience, and tuning into it more easily every time. It looks very similar to a learning process.

 

[Cufko]

this is just my experience..but I have a lot of experience with salvia..

If you are feeling horrible, freaking out etc with salvia than you have not broken though. Yes you can feel like it's very intense and be stretching and pulling etc..but just for me personally on a true salvinorin breakthrough there is not much of this me left to really worry about how horrible this trip is. I am gone into another dimension 100%.

The roughest part about that for me is that comming back to this world feels like the trip..literally I feel like I have taken some drug turning me into this weird alien thing that I dont understand and I dont want my life back in that other world to be lost etc..then I realize this weird alien human life is my real life and I simply ingested salvinorin.

I dont know whats up with this whole deal about having to wait to smoke more either. I have never experienced the need to wait due to any tolerance.

I never freaked out or anything like that. Just one question though ... I don't fully understand this "breakthrough". So I'm gonna tell you a story, and you just tell me if this is what you mean by breakthough, okay?
When I first smoked weed, I didn't get much results, I smoked it let's say 5 times, until one day me and my friend smoked some really bad weed, we both puked, but after that day, everytime I tried weed, I got high. Was this my breakthrough with weed? Does my body need to ... learn how to get effects from things?


P.S., so I don't make double posts

would you mind explaining this reverse tolerance for me?

Reverse tolerance works the opposite way to tolerance. Tolerance is, the more you use a compound, the less effects you get from it. Reverse tolerance indicates that as you keep using a compound, you slowly keep getting stronger effects.

Many people who has used salvia for some time reports this. The reason why salvia shows reverse tolerance is not well known. You could imagine your brain chemistry getting acquainted with the experience, and tuning into it more easily every time. It looks very similar to a learning process.

Oh, wait, I think I read about that, years ago ... And I read about salvia in particular, I remember that ... I read that salvia is one of few drugs that have this reverse tolerance ... now it all makes sense!
So it's like, I need some time and the effects will get stronger with the same amount of smoked leaves? That's just great.

Thank you again for your response, and sorry for my bad english, I feel like I can't even put some words in a nice sentence ... I know you probably don't mind, but still, I had to say it. I feel like my english is getting worse ...

 

[jamie]

a breakthrough means you leave this world completely. There is not physical body left and you are no longer in the room where you just smoked salvia. You are gone into another dimension and there is no question about it. You dont come back and ask "was that a breakthrough" becasue you know it was a breakthrough.

 

[Cufko]

a breakthrough means you leave this world completely. There is not physical body left and you are no longer in the room where you just smoked salvia. You are gone into another dimension and there is no question about it. You dont come back and ask "was that a breakthrough" becasue you know it was a breakthrough.

Oh, okay. I get it now. Thanks!

And I'd just like to ask the same question again, does anyone have any advices on holding the smoke in the lungs for more time? It caused me some problems with salvia :/

 

[Metanoia]

Oh goodness. The misinformation is so rampant with this plant. gibran and jamie are veterans, like myself, but there is just too much bad information in this thread to comment on it all

Here's a comprehensive list that should help you understand what it is you're working with.

1.) Less is More

The "reverse tolerance" effect means that over time, you will achieve stronger effects with the same dosage. Just taking more, or a stronger potency (10x to 20x) is a recipe for an overdose experience. These experiences can be very unpleasant and horrific. See youtube for details.

2.) Mixing Salvia with other psychoactives isn't recommended

Many people do mix Salvia with other herbs, marijuana, other psychedelics, etc.
But those people usually are familiar with all the substances on their own before making the decision to try them in combination. It's very important to cultivate a relationship with Salvia before you even think of mixing it with something else.

3.) Plain leaves are a good place to start, but most won't achieve "breakthrough"

For pretty much every person that decides to use Salvia divinorum, their goal is to achieve a breakthrough. Plain leaves give you an idea of the effects, but most people will find it very difficult, if not impossible, to achieve a full on breakthrough with them. At least when they haven't had any experience with it prior. I can now achieve breakthrough experiences with only 400 - 500mg of plain leaf. That is after using the plant for some years, but it is possible.

I don't normally suggest people buy extracts. Most of those who produce and sell Salvia extracts are only looking for profit, and tend to use extraction methods that aren't geared towards a quality product. The quality and potency of commercial extracts is sub-par at best. But, as not everyone has the time or means to perform extracts themselves, do your best to buy it from a reputable source. No flashy packaging, no head shops, no ridiculous claims (Now on SALE for a limited time only! 600x Salvia! Buy 2 get 1 free!)

Look for a small online vendor that sells Salvia with a good track record. They're hard to find nowadays, but they're there. (Tip: A good vendor will only sell plain leaf, 5x, 10x, and possibly 15x or 20x. Anything advertised above that is almost certainly a lie.)

Until then, keep at it with the plain leaf. How to hold the smoke in longer? Blow all your air out before hitting it. If you're using a water bong, add ice. A torch lighter isn't particularly necessary, but it does help to burn as much as possible, as quickly as possible.

Have fun, respect the plant, submit to the experience, manage your expectations.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Personally, based on my experience, I would recommend eschewing smoking/vaporizing entirely and chewing the leaves instead.

That is the traditional way the entheogen is used, and I personally find it vastly preferable. When I smoke, it's like I'm being ripped out of this world, thrown into a totally alien one (and it's different every time), and have to take time to figure out where I am, what has happened to me, and oftentimes it is more then I can handle.

Making a chew or quid on the other hand extends the come-up to about 30 minutes, which gives you time to ease into it, and orient yourself as you begin traveling.

Its the difference between being dropped into the ocean from a helicopter and wading into the water from the shore.

For me, between 7-13 plain leaves takes me to a really beautiful headspace, but I an always chew more to go further. I'm not sure how chewing works with extracts, but I imagine the basic rules still apply: dose low your first time, and remember that the higher the extract, the less you need.

This isn't to say that you SHOULDN'T smoke or vape, just a reminder that they are not your only options and have some drawbacks in and of themselves. That said, chewing has it's drawbacks as well: namely that Salvia tastes really bitter and it can be hard to keep the saliva in your mouth without spitting or swallowing (two things I try to avoid).

Lots of love
~ND

 

[DeMenTed]

Cufko you seem to be trying to understand the psychedelic experience by comparing it to weed. Please put that notion out your head. Weed and fully fledged psychedelics like salvia, shrooms, dmt etc are nothing like weed, they are incomparable.

You seem to be quite inexperienced, which isn't a bad thing but you need to be fully aware of the dangers when using salvia. Salvia can kill you if you are in the wrong setting. People have fell from windows and died because they simply smoked some salvia.

As Jamie said, a salvia breakthrough is 100% a complete loss of body and ego. Your new surroundings in salvia land is your new home for the next 5 minutes maybe longer. Wherever you are in your breakthrough, you may be walking around exploring your environment but in real life reality you can be walking about oblivious to danger and fall down stairs. Or out a window etc. it's easily done!

Do more research before continuing on your journey would be my best advice. Stay safe

P.s your English is excellent

 

[Cufko]

To Dioxippus:
Thanks a lot for your post. I will definitely take all the information into account.


To Nathanial.Dread:
I know, I'd like to try that very much. But I can't find fresh salvia leaves. Currently I'm looking for salvia seeds or someone that already has it growing, so that I can grow my own Salvia. I would like that very much. But for now, dried leaves is all I got.
I'm sure I'll try chewing once I get my own plant.


To DeMenTed:
Well, that's not the case, I know that weed is different :/
I also know that salvia can kill me, and that I could just jump through the window.

I think I know some stuff about salvia, and the "research" you're telling me to do, is in this thread. That's why I'm asking questions, to do more research of what I don't know. If the internet had all the answers, I wouldn't be here.

 

[DeMenTed]

I just care about your safety peace

 

[Cufko]

I just care about your safety peace

I'm sorry, I didn't want to sound rude or anything like that. I appreciate any comments, posts or information. Thanks