Horrible problem(s)

[appelseen]

BTW, a good shaman will not accept you, but send you to a medical specialist as well.

And conversely, a medical specialist would have to be a bit of a shaman to be of assistance in a situation like this.

I know that around here where I live, if you go to a mental health professional and start to talk about triangles with eyes and electronic jews, it is very likely that you will be locked up and forced to accept a regime of antipsychotic drugs until you learn not to open your mouth to speak about your experiences.

Finding a good shrink is just as difficult as finding a good shaman.

 

[polytrip]

I NEVER lost touch with reality. Psychiatrists treat you like you do.

If your brother has to call the cops because he 's afraid of you, you try to convince the cops of the existance of 'electric jews', they send you to a medical hospital, and you try to concinve the shrinks there that you're perfectly sane but haunted by 'electric jews' that really do exist, and you're diagnosed as a psychotic and afterwards you start telling that everybody else is insane except yourself, it sounds a lot like you HAVE lost touch with reality.
If 'electric jews' would exist, and they would haunt you, just trying to convince people like cops or shrinks of their existence alone, shows you've lost touch with reality.
If there's a whole dimension with 'electric jews', where nobody of all these 6 billion people except you is aware of, after you took substances that altered your mindstate...if you where in touch with reality, you'd realize that every sane person would think you're insane if you told them about this. If i told you that i'd had telepathic contact with britney spears and i knew for a fact that she comes from another planet called 'breastnipple', that nobody can see but wich is clearly visible to me, oh and i recently took a massive dose of powerfull hallucinogenic drugs, you'd think i made a joke, would like to speak in bizarre metaphors or that i have totally lost touch with reality.
If you refuse to seek professional help AND keep on trying convincing others of the existance of these 'electric jews' AND if you refuse even to slightly doubt the existance of these things, i'm very sorry to say, but you're heading for a lot of trouble. A lot of trouble. You'l end up on the street, homeless or in a clinic.
PLEASE, for your own sake...try to think rational for one moment, try to be a bit critical towards yourself.
Because that's what separate's the sane from the insane; sane people can doubt themselves, can ask themselves 'am i crazy?', can look at their own actions from the perspective of others. The fact that you refuse to put the 'electric jews'into question AND that you cannot see the absurdity of this from the perspective of a cop or a someone who works in a clinic is deeply concerning.

 

[Vlad]

I NEVER lost touch with reality. Psychiatrists treat you like you do.

If your brother has to call the cops because he 's afraid of you

Actually, no. He started a fight and I hit him and he started bleeding, and when he told the meds he was bleeding from a fight the cops came.

, you try to convince the cops of the existance of 'electric jews',

Not really. They asked what the fight was about and I said it started with an arguement about energy lines. My brother is a nut, how they locked me up and not him is a question I still don't get. He talks way more stuff out of line than me yet *I* got taken by the cops, probably because I hit him and he was bleeding.

they send you to a medical hospital, and you try to concinve the shrinks there that you're perfectly sane but haunted by 'electric jews'

I didn't say a damn thing for months on end.

If 'electric jews' would exist, and they would haunt you, just trying to convince people like cops or shrinks of their existence alone, shows you've lost touch with reality.

The shrink wasn't sure I was psychotic, she wanted to have me subjected to psychology tests to see if I was psychotic. It was only months later when I told the doc what I experienced that she suddenly changed her opinion into 'oh horrible'. If I had shut up, she wouldn't have known a damn thing. And I spoke because I didn't care anymore either, I ran away and was about to be released anyway.

If there's a whole dimension with 'electric jews', where nobody of all these 6 billion people except you is aware of, after you took substances that altered your mindstate...if you where in touch with reality, you'd realize that every sane person would think you're insane if you told them about this.

I'm sayin there COULD be a plane like hyperspace where electric entities live. I'm not trying to convince anyone about the existence of electronic jews nor did I try to.

PLEASE, for your own sake...try to think rational for one moment, try to be a bit critical towards yourself.
Because that's what separate's the sane from the insane; sane people can doubt themselves, can ask themselves 'am i crazy?', can look at their own actions from the perspective of others. The fact that you refuse to put the 'electric jews'into question AND that you cannot see the absurdity of this from the perspective of a cop or a someone who works in a clinic is deeply concerning.

You think I can't do that? You just made me realize something actually. I rarely or never doubt. I usually know things, or don't know things. I know that I can see from the perspective of others and understand others view these things as crazy. No problem about that. I understand some people want to force 'help' on me and are too stupid to understand and do more harm than good. No problem with that for now, I just shut up to some people. To be completely honest I think most people when it comes to the nature of reality are blunt and stupid as fuck and believe the most crazy things. How about the billions who believe in things religion talks about where they have no proof for? Why aren't they locked up? Maybe because of tradition and social acceptance? But hey if you talk about electric beings perhaps originating from a hyperspatial plane, you get locked up. Yet religion can't be proven, though many people have reported entities on DMT in 'hyperspace', an that can be physically tested by ingestion of DMT.
I also don't know if anyone also saw electric beings. I'd be interested to know. And that would still be on DMT whereas I saw them when not on DMT.
Is a tripper insane because he is under the influence of DMT when he sees things? I don't think so.
If anything maybe one could conclude from me that my brain might have been producing too many tryptamines or molecules that made me see things on it's own, but that would not change a thing about the things I see, just shed a bit more light on the mechanism in the body how it could happen. Doesn't mean I am or was insane as you seem to imply. At best I was constantly under the influence of tryptamines or something similar, or 'stuck in a trip', since one could say somethin like that since I kept seeing electric entities.

What's still interesting to me is that these entities wanted me to believe in things, and did not like it when I kept an open attitude, not judging what they are or want to do. Beliefs seem like self imposed fairy tales.

 

[Phlux-]

this reality is one of many - its the one we are karmikly predisposissioned to experience as our base or ground reality.
infinite dimensions and other worlds exist. its best to keep our experiences of those other places where they should be - trying to understand things from there, while here in our own way wont work - their logic is not the same as ours.

vlad is obviously not mad but rather he has met with a situation not many of us usually do.

a shaman is one who has healed himself.

sorry for the random post.

 

[Jorkest]

I'm not trying to attack anyone in particular.

with all due respect, I think you make very valid points, but they would probably be received better without all the name calling. just my 2 cents...

agreed..stop being a douche..


see how it changes my post into being mean? dont call people retarded..dipshit or anything else..because THAT IS attacking people..


now...SWIM has LOTS of experience with meeting entities in hyperspace...and he believes that hyperspace is an actual place where some things live...dont give him shit for it..he wont change his mind..anyway

he has met entities hundreds of times...sometimes they are really nice..sometimes they are not..now when somebody is telling you that they KNOW these people are real...its really silly to try and convince them that they are not...because YOU JUST DONT HAVE THEIR EXPERIENCE..

SWIM sees entities ALL the time now...in the trees...out his windows..in his dreams...in hyperspace..EVERYWHERE..and he believes they are separate entities from himself...now..he uses certain TOOLS to help his mind keep them at bay..he uses focuses such as rocks and crystals and meditations to do this...

now its a FACT that quartz crystals vibrate at a certain frequency..its how we keep time..its how these computers we use are able to synchronize and transfer DATA..

when you listen to music...vibrations are hitting your body and it makes you feel good..or it makes you feel bad...music that you like..and that you have listened to hundreds of times..also brings up many memories of other times that you have listened to it..VIBRATIONS EFFECT YOU!

radiation is just extremely violent vibrations that push molecules through your body and do some damage..if you are around radiation long enough..you will die..VIBRATIONS EFFECT YOU..

so when you pick up a crystal..that IS vibrating it effects you..granted in a small way..in a subtle way..but it does effect you..

SWIM has smoked DMT many times with different crystals in his hands..and has noticed VAST differences in the experience..just like music causes vast differences in the experience..

SWIM believes that entities are real..no use trying to convince him otherwise..SWIM believes that crystals effect himself and his environment..there is no use convincing him otherwise..so

if you cant convince somebody of your worldview..you have to start thinking like them to help them in THEIR WORLD..not by name calling..not by calling them schizophrenic..but by sympathizing with their worldview..so Vlad believes that these entities are real...he believes in the energy that they are able to influence him...so...help him by giving him information that is sympathetic to the way he sees the world..its the best advice i can give..it may be wrong..it may perpetuate his "psychosis" but..IM FUCKING NUTS TOO!! but dont give me shit for it...because all that will do is piss me off...and then i wont listen to a damn thing you have to say..

thats why doctors fail so often when dealing with "crazies"

by the way all of SWIMs friends know hes a little off his rocker..but..they still respect him..they still listen to him..and they even play around with the ideas he talks about..because we REALLY dont know whats happening here..so its IMPOSSIBLE to discount 'crazy' ideas

 

[polytrip]

I'm not trying to attack anyone in particular.

with all due respect, I think you make very valid points, but they would probably be received better without all the name calling. just my 2 cents...

agreed..stop being a douche..


see how it changes my post into being mean? dont call people retarded..dipshit or anything else..because THAT IS attacking people..

Don't like the word 'dipshit' either. Especially not when i'm eating.

 

[Dorge]

I had some I guess you could say similar problems Vlad... when I was beginning to do this work.
Dont take what your experieincing at face value start looking at a lot of it more smbolicly... some times its a mix between litteral and symbolic though..

Honestly Vlad your a trance channel, a medium, you have the ability to allow other beings to enter your mindstream, spirit, body what ever and allow them to posses you. you can hold onto your own conciousness which makes it a bit confusing, I was like that too... makes it really confusing when theres multiple people in your head.

for me it started with a LSD trip and automatic hand writing along side some clarivoyance teks.. i learned to see spirits with my freind as well as many energies and levels of energy, and we learned to trance channel all in one night... it blew my fucking mind. changed my life forever...
it took along time to under stand the nature of being a trance channel and how to do it with out it being a danger to your sanity. there where times when i fel tI was no longer in control... that dead folk or differrent spirits had control of me well at least 25% of the time for a while. I got pirits attached to me that would try to influcne my life and would try to take over when i was feeling week... it was hard...
I studied the hell out of this phenomena as well... i read every book i could find on the subject... studied every spiritual tradition or religion that has trance channeling as a part of it, voodoo, candomble, santeria, the tibetian Lhamos gave me the most help and bon po... but the brazilians as well where able to give me a LOT of guidence, the old spiritualist books by kardek where also helpful and i stayed away from the new age channeling books like crazy because they are so confused they made confusion a religion. i studied it from eveyr angle and tried to gain some insight knowing that what i brought to the experience some how changed it...
eventually i got more control with some help from good friends who could also do it, and eventually gained an understanding of it that was strong enough that its no longer to me what it was before... its a totally different expereince for me now and i understand it to be very different.
So start reading about this sort of stuff... find some people that are mediums and or channels and start working with them to gain some control at least...but dont be satisfied with just mediumistic and channeling defintions of whats going on... keep asking questions and find deeper meaning in it all... you will find it...
Also ask for a guide to come and help you... the strongest, wisest most compassionate guide, the highest guide you have available to you right now in this point in your life, a guide that can protect you from the "other" spirits and help teach you how to develope your sensativities... and only allow this being to communicate with you and talk to you and come into your body for a while ok.
see how that works for you.

i dont think your crazy,... i should know i work in a psyche ward... but i think this could drive you crazy really easy, and make you very mentally unhealthy unless you get a grip on it.
In other words... i think you have a gift and if you dont accept this gift and workw ith it... its going to be a curse your whole life.

 

[ohayoco]

I'm sorry to hear about your ideal, Vlad, and I'm really happy to hear you feel better right now. I though Endlessness gave some very good advice. Except for the going-away bit, I personally think it would be best if you stayed where you are within the reach of as much of a support network as possible (friends, family, doctors etc, whoever is available and the more the better, you don't necessarily have to confide in them all about your problems).

You talk like a sane, intelligent person to me, in fact I think you make a lot of sense. A sane person, but troubled by entities/delusions. Whether they are real or not is immaterial, what is important is that they go away or at least stop bothering you. Of course as you know you have to tell the doctors you know they're not real because they're doctors, not priests or philosophers, and yes I expect they may be tempted to lock you up if you openly philosophised about how they COULD possibly be real.

You said psychiatry is a pseudoscience- well there are parts of it that are a bit hit-and-miss but actually it's psychotherapy that is the pseudoscience (Freud/Yung), psychiatry is a science. I'm sorry to hear you suffered at the hands of a cold institution, but don't let that put you off. You could benefit from a good psychologist (we all could, everyone is fucked up enough in some way). They're the ones who DON'T feed you drugs, unlike psychiatrists. However, don't give up on the anti-schizophrenic prescription drugs (or whatever condition it is you've been suffering from), because I hear that many people are able to live functional lives thanks to them.

 

[xantus]

this is my favorite thread. opens many doors that are available to walk through. all you have to do is be mindful.
evolution of the mind seems perfectly natural to take place in the manifestation of 'wierd ideas'
I wonder how long it will take for viewpoints like these to be accepted in urban society. if they can even be accepted in urban society.

the Dunbar Number rings more and more apparent with me these days... I don't think urban society has a lot of staying power against the desire for social cohesion.

 

[Dorge]

im not sure that thats completely nessecary... if you cant find the help you need via alternatives then perhaps the antipsychotics would help you...
i think your running a fine line between madness and spirituality.
I work in a psyche ward, I work with psychiatrists... i have to hold people down and put them in restraints so they can get their medication injected against their will, they havee to have their pants pulled down so they can get an IM in the ass... its not a pretty thing...

if we put every one who had visions of spirits or had spirits talking to them in a psyche ward and gave them a script of antipsychotics then im not sure we would have any shamans, mystics or spiritual healers left in the world...

if what your experiencing starts to feel that it puts your life or the lives of others in general, and you feel you are not able to take care of your basic needs then i would highly consider seeing a psychiatrist.
there are many people who hear voices and see people who are not there and even have dellusions but theye are not adverse in their lives... we normally only hear about the mentally ill whos symptoms are a problem.
Some people hear voices that give them advice and help them. theres scores of research out there on the subject.
so if its a problem get help... if it not its ok that your you.

 

[amor_fati]

We put too much emphasis on self-preservation and on utilitarian values. These are not the driving factors for the individual, and though most would prefer to think so, they tend to exhibit otherwise. It's important to realize the implications of our impulses and perceptions have toward our survival and ability to function on a social level, but nevertheless, this must often be transcended in order to fulfil more individually and internally determined necessities in life.

Our social norms and mores are hardly exemplary of adequate mental health. Vlad is right in thinking that we exhibit collective mental illness, but ours is cultural in origin, while his is obviously of more physical origins: Both, however, inevitably manifest physically, though that of physical origin stands as an exception to the dominant culturally-born disorders. Vlad has the benefit of a fiercely competitive disorder that tends to forcefully expel the more common and accepted disorders prevalent today.

Some of us tend to seek out ways of overcoming our culturally-born disorders by altering the cultural context within which we operate, or we seek out temporary states of mind, similar to Vlad's, that jar us out of our ill tendencies. Certainly Vlad's condition displays a great deal of irrationality, and perhaps there is some absurdity to attempting to expressing it as rational or claiming to be experiencing it from a rational perspective. Madness is the fine line between "sanity" and spiritual cohesion, but perhaps Vlad's experiences are lacking in some fundamental elements of universality and coherence.

Vlad likely has much to come to terms with in his life and his condition before unlocking the potential in his madness, as we all do in our own specific conditions. But his will be significantly more difficult, trying, and dangerous, but significantly more prone to heights unobtainable to the rest of us. You have a great curse but also a great opportunity.

Art makes a good point about thinking critically and being able to doubt the reality and literal nature of these visions. Consider that there's something more to it, or that the origin of these visions is being misrepresented to you. Better yet, consider that maybe you have some influence on the nature of these experiences. At the very least, consider that you have the ability to alter your perception, whether by pure will or by deliberate chemical means.

SWIM understands that consideration of using harmaloids to help one grasp and make sense of visions, though has knowledge of whether their chemical mechanisms are at all effective for such a condition. SWIM's DMT visions can be about as absurd as the one's your describing, and SWIM uses harmaloids to equip himself to better grasp and essentially decode these visions. It's possible that the visions SWIM has and the visions your having aren't all that dissimilar, and if so, SWIM would venture to guess that they're simply not encoded in such a way that we can understand them without chemical, perceptual assistance. Then again, maybe it would only exacerbate his situation. This is ultimately Vlad's decision, regardless of whether he's deemed "fit" to make such a decision.

 

[Vlad]

The main annoyance I have is that I sense energy all the time, like subtle energy, perhaps chi. And I feel what's right and wrong, basically always. When I think and talk to people, I have it non stop. I know when to think, or talk, or when to stop or shut up.

 

[Jorkest]

is that a bad thing though vlad? your awareness is just increased..try to accept it and use it to your advantage