How close was I to breaking through?

[Emptiness]

Hi, I tried looking on the FAQ and WIKI for a dosing calculator for the range of effects, I couldn't find any but I searched the forum and found this thread:

DMT Trip Level Scale (1 2 3 4 5) - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

But no one has replied yet, it would be interesting to know how much further I have to go and shroomery diagram doesn't apply that well as DMT feels very different to mushrooms.

I finally got to experience a heavier dose vaping white spice the other night. It felt a level above what I have previously experienced with 2-dimensional CEVs morphing in and out of existence like a hypercube does and audible female voices saying things like "all is a dream within a dream". I held it in and only thought it was a small dose then suddenly I felt very strange very quickly. I thought I had vaped way too much and said aloud "oh shit!" then my friend said "whats wrong are you ok?" Then I said "If things go wrong here, just take me to the hospital". I would never have said something like that in my normal state of consciousness so it shows that I was feeling very unnerved about how different I was feeling and how different my awareness of things were.

I thought I was going to go in to what ever these people call "hyperspace" and tried to calm myself and prepare and let go to whatever may happen. My mind was very chaotic.

I moved my arm back and forth and was completely shocked at how strange that looked, it reminded me of this lol. My perception felt buzzing in connection throughout the sense domains as if that buzzing was for some intelligent purpose in making me perceive the way I did but I could not here any audible buzzing like the carrier wave.

My vision was condensing and when I looked out in to the open the entire place looked cartoon-like and I could see the surfaces of objects forming in to geometric rythems that made no sense geometrically, they weren't shapes but algorithms for which information was being diverted into and looked hyper-dimensional. I wasn't just seeing patterns layered over the top of my normal visual stream, I was seeing an architecture of some sort that had a distinctly different feel to it than that of everyday visual information.

We normally interpenetrate the visual data as a set of 2-dimensional surfaces and infer amodally about a 3-dimensional space. It seemed that 2-dimensional surfaces were soon going to just dissolve and I would be left seeing the same world in an entirely new format that I haven't previously.

I felt utterly astonished by everything even though I knew, paradoxically, there was nothing to be so astounded by. I started coming down more and more and began see the usual style of CEV characterstic of my previous sub-breakthrough doses. I then began to appreciate how valuable sanity is even though I find it so tedious, which is a common theme for me and other psychedelics.

How close was I? What more attributes of sense perception have to change before I can breakthrough? I don't know if I can handle any more than that! :shock:

 

[FromMeToYou]

Hi and Welcome to the Nexus Emptiness

Regarding your question, i find it difficult to answer, because "Breakthrough" for me is just a term, which is defined by everyone differently. From the link you posted i would define Level 4 a Breaktrough, where someone else would say only Level 5 is a "real" Breakthrough. From my perspective you probably weren't to far away from a Breakthrough.

I would recommend that you buy a scale which can go 3 digits after the dot (0.000g is what i mean), so you dont have to think about, wheter you vaped to much or not.

From what i read, it seemed for me that your eyes were open the whole time. I find it helpful to close my eyes, as it is often so overwhelming for me with open eyes (still is with closed eyes, but somehow easier for me).

If you are not sure wether you are ready for a higher dose or not, try to give it some time. DMT is not going away and i find important to take the time you need for yourself.

I hope i was able tp help you!

Much
FromMeToYou

 

[TGO]

Hey Emptiness, Welcome!

First, the reason there is no "dosage calculator" in relation to effects is because some people have incredibly powerful experiences on 15-25mg while for others it takes 40mg or more. Keep in mind, the actual psychedelic "hard heads" (people who need more than the average person) are rarer than the fact that average people who need more are usually just those who need to work on their smoking/vaping/what-have-you technique. But that is besides the point.

The term "breakthrough" is just and only that, a term. I agree 100% with FromMeToYou in that sense. It is completely subjective but most people will say, "You'll know when it happens..." which is pretty factual, actually. I'd rather define it as "an extremely profound and powerfully moving experience." From what I have experienced, a "breakthrough" has meant that I have completely left this waking reality completely behind, replaced with a new and absolute reality within "hyperspace" (which for the record, is another loose term, IMHO).

Sometimes it has been so powerful that I felt as if the "reality" in hyperspace was all I ever knew, forgetting about this waking reality completely as if it ceased to exist. I believe those types of feelings are what lead people to believe they have died during the experience. Again, this is all subjective and speculative based on my experiences mixed with countless hours of research into others experiences. So as always, take it with a grain of salt!

Also, "breakthroughs" like to top themselves. Once you feel you have a grasp on what DMT can do, it quickly shows you how wrong you were for thinking you had it figured out...generally by blasting you further than you ever thought was possible or even further than you wanted to go. :shock: :d

So, how close were you? No idea. DMT is still quite useful/interesting/fun even in non-breakthrough doses, IME. Good luck on future endeavors.

 

[Emptiness]

Hey Emptiness, Welcome!

First, the reason there is no "dosage calculator" in relation to effects is because some people have incredibly powerful experiences on 15-25mg while for others it takes 40mg or more. Keep in mind, the actual psychedelic "hard heads" (people who need more than the average person) are rarer than the fact that average people who need more are usually just those who need to work on their smoking/vaping/what-have-you technique. But that is besides the point.

The term "breakthrough" is just and only that, a term. I agree 100% with FromMeToYou in that sense. It is completely subjective but most people will say, "You'll know when it happens..." which is pretty factual, actually. I'd rather define it as "an extremely profound and powerfully moving experience." From what I have experienced, a "breakthrough" has meant that I have completely left this waking reality completely behind, replaced with a new and absolute reality within "hyperspace" (which for the record, is another loose term, IMHO).

Sometimes it has been so powerful that I felt as if the "reality" in hyperspace was all I ever knew, forgetting about this waking reality completely as if it ceased to exist. I believe those types of feelings are what lead people to believe they have died during the experience. Again, this is all subjective and speculative based on my experiences mixed with countless hours of research into others experiences. So as always, take it with a grain of salt!

Also, "breakthroughs" like to top themselves. Once you feel you have a grasp on what DMT can do, it quickly shows you how wrong you were for thinking you had it figured out...generally by blasting you further than you ever thought was possible or even further than you wanted to go. :shock: :d

So, how close were you? No idea. DMT is still quite useful/interesting/fun even in non-breakthrough doses, IME. Good luck on future endeavors.

Thanks for posting gr8fuldead, the trip level scale is actually completely different from the dosage calculator. The trip level scale actually doesn't reference any dosages at all, it only references arbitrary levels that can be defined at whatever dose is suitable for the individual.... hence why I would find this so interesting and useful for DMT rather than shrooms. Would you like to post in that thread and try and describe it for me?

I like your definitions of breaking-through and are not dissimilar to what I have heard previously when reading the nexus. It sounds alike how salvia makes you forget about all your earthly attachments and I imagine this is shocking for any ego, I just hope that in time one is able to be more comfortable about it. I also will try to remain as humble as possible while experiencing it, I know it is not to be reckoned with and realize I am at the mercy of forces beyond my control. I think it is a shame sometimes though, some people may think they have their head on their shoulders about it and then have it handed to them, they get frightened and don't touch the spice any longer which is a shame because it has such potential to heal.

Anyway, what I was hoping to know not what a breakthrough is but how close I was from one. I would think that on a scale of one to breakthrough I must of been sitting somewhere, scientifically, I would have had to of been. I would much appreciate if someone filled in that trip level scale.

 

[TGO]

Ah yes, I guess I misunderstood! :d

From a molecular standpoint, DMT and mushrooms are closely related. I think the mushroom scale is probably adequate in describing the levels.

However, I'll do my best to describe it:

Level 1: Threshold effects. Minor to moderate head change. Floors and walls may become wavy or melt a bit. Cognitive function remains almost fully in tact and most would be able to go about their normal business in this state.

Level 2: Slightly above threshold effects. Morphing of inanimate objects becomes more pronounced. For me, an alien sort of written language may appear over the surface of objects (subjective, of course). Thoughts begin to increase in speed. Slight disorientation. Cognitive function still there but it is easier to lose focus.

Level 3: The Sub-breakthrough. This is where things start to get very weird. A sensation of being crushed or under intense pressure may occur (it isn't painful, but is quite startling). One usually remains "present" in this reality while a fractal circus dances about but one can still become completely disoriented or lost in the moment. My girlfriend has even reported entity contact even in sub breakthroughs. Many different physical sensations may occur, senses may even start to blend together depending on dose. The ego is likely to start being affected at this level. A buzzing or clicking sound sometimes occurs. Focus becomes much foggier.

Level 4: The Breakthrough. Crushing/pressure becomes much more pronounced which continues until you "pop"through or "breakthrough." This generally results in complete loss of the physical self in an immense sea of complicated geometric patterns sometimes accompanied by the "carrier wave." You will likely be saying goodbye to your ego at this point, so be ready for that. Senses can melt together.
Impossible dimensions will unveil themselves. You won't be able to tell if your eyes are open or closed.

You may also be transported to an alternate reality (via blasting out of your body, or sometimes it feels like what I'd imagine teleporting would feel like), and often times forgetting that this waking reality even exists. This can be downright terrifying for someone who has never experienced anything but waking reality. Some report flying through an endless tunnel but never actually going anywhere. Intelligent and seemingly independent Entity (or Entities) contact is quite common in this level but not always guaranteed. There could be one or thousands. You never really know until you're there. Simply put: Some are nice. Some are jokers/tricksters. Some seem Evil. Some are benevolent.

The Entities may teach/preach/play games/torment/perform hyper-dimensional surgery/tickle/show you impossible things etc. etc. etc. It is truly hard to describe a breakthrough, I mean some people blast off and are flung into a void of nothingness...no colors, no light, no fractals, nothing... nothing but a pure stream of consciousness.

Level 5: The Breakthrough's Breakthrough. I won't go into detail because I can't. Like I mentioned above, breakthroughs tend to top themselves. So when level 4 reaches a level 5, the next time you journey, you may see another 4 or 5 turn into a 6 and so on and so forth infinitely...

Well, there you have it according to me. :d Please note that none of this is definitive. These levels are based on my own experiences and countless other experience reports found here and Erowid mainly.

Cheers!

EDIT: I'll go ahead and put this in the thread started by fathomlessness too to hopefully get the ball rolling on how other's perceive the "trip scale"

 

[Emptiness]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

That was a very nice read, highlight of my day!

Thanks :d

 

[TGO]

thanks, Emptiness... i hope you realize I was being 100% honest and truthful...and that I spoke from experience. not to mention, I didn't need to intervene in your beliefs of what IT is or can be...I guess I am just confused as to why this was so funny to you...?

Glad to make your day, but do you take me seriously?

 

[Emptiness]

thanks, Emptiness... i hope you realize I was being 100% honest and truthful...and that I spoke from experience. not to mention, I didn't need to intervene in your beliefs of what IT is or can be...I guess I am just confused as to why this was so funny to you...?

Glad to make your day, but do you take me seriously?

Haha, yep. The whole thing is just funny, I mean the fact the we ingest a molecule that provides a convincing experience of another realm and when I read the "breakthrough of a breakthough" I just cacked myself in giggles. Some quote says something like "nothing in this world is srs" Still, I don't remember proving any of my beliefs about hyperspace?

Hi and Welcome to the Nexus Emptiness

Regarding your question, i find it difficult to answer, because "Breakthrough" for me is just a term, which is defined by everyone differently. From the link you posted i would define Level 4 a Breaktrough, where someone else would say only Level 5 is a "real" Breakthrough. From my perspective you probably weren't to far away from a Breakthrough.

I would recommend that you buy a scale which can go 3 digits after the dot (0.000g is what i mean), so you dont have to think about, wheter you vaped to much or not.

From what i read, it seemed for me that your eyes were open the whole time. I find it helpful to close my eyes, as it is often so overwhelming for me with open eyes (still is with closed eyes, but somehow easier for me).

If you are not sure wether you are ready for a higher dose or not, try to give it some time. DMT is not going away and i find important to take the time you need for yourself.

I hope i was able tp help you!

Much
FromMeToYou

Thanks bro, will use my scale next time and relax with a blindfold on (during daylight). I will always try and remember that there is no rush for DMT. :thumb_up:

 

[TGO]

Damn, Emptiness... you get me...didn't think it was so easily achieved.......you win!!!! for now!


:lol: :lol:

 

[TGO]

 

[anne halonium]

my dad told us when we were kids on a trip to mouse world that
" are we there yet" is an IQ/ reality test........
if ya have to ask , your obviously not "there yet."

when you do arrive, the question is meaningless.