How do monks meditate on pain?

[greenmoss]

I saw in the news a buddhist monk that burned himself because he was protesting and just sat there burning until he was dead. He did not move or scream. Then a different guy I saw online was only set aflame a tiny bit with only 15% of his body and was running around screaming.

So how do the monks do this? Anything you can think of please such as how to think like a monk and how to meditate or have certain thoughts on pain?

Thank You very much.

I found this post and would like to know is there anything similar to this way of explaining/thinking.
You can control your reaction to anything as long as you stay with what you're feeling and accept everything as it comes. The monk did it by leaning into burning alive.

 

[Auxin]

After having listened to lots of different monks and nuns I get the impression it comes down to three different methods.
The majority of monks simply learn to grit their teeth and bare pain without showing it, for the sake of appearance. This is why so many western monks have bad knees, and some will tell you this is exactly why they have bad knees. In zen they beat you with a stick if you dont practice this method.
The next most abundant group learn to disconnect or depersonalize from the pain while still feeling it. Sort of the 'not self' thing, its there but its not them so they dont allow it to overwhelm them. For people with chronic pain this helps greatly to let them get to the third way...
Probably the least common are the jhana monks, but despite what some monks claim there are a lot of jhana practitioner monks around today, some nuns too. There are even some jhana lay people. The jhanas are the meditative absorptions that the buddha very strongly encouraged to all his monastic followers, he even explicitly said no one can become enlightened without at least achieving the first jhana. In even the lowest of the jhanas the physical senses shut off completely, the body is incapable of feeling anything (this has been observed with jhana practitioners in hospitals). Both lay and monastic cancer patients sometimes develop the jhanas to shut off the constant pain, in the mahaparinibbana sutta the buddha would let his friends give the talks because his back hurt so bad he wanted to just go off into jhana meditation for the day.
Of course with your bodily senses, and eventually thinking and mind impressions, shut off you cant be walking around doing daily activities so thats a limitation :lol:

 

[AikyO]

I guess it's about reaching an endless state of relaxation.

In some meditation I experienced not so long ago, I was able to warm myself while naked in the cold. Cold like my body could be trembling hard. But then you just relax and there's this immense warmth inside of you, and you enjoy minimal movement in every aspect. It's really a special state.

I have no doubt you can do great things with the mind, as aforementioned by Auxin. From my own experience I can only conceive it as an intense state of relaxation, maybe one dives so much in that state that it dissolve his self and he gets into eternal mode, some divine, and so out of time (and the body is within time), state of consciousness.

 

[○]

No self, no-mind - I agree with auxin on those points.

I'll add my opinions:

I have some minor experience with this, though obviously not to the degree of burning myself alive, though I think my experiences touch on a similar place. Used to work at a seafood shop, massive walk-in coolers, walk into one, then right ahead there was a door leading to another cooler section with a 10 degree temperature drop from the first cooler. I used to sit in that second cooler and eat my lunch during break, every single day; main reason was because I didn't want to go sit out in public eating [was pretty non-social at the time]. I did this every day for about 2 years. My co-workers would laugh and make jokes haha; they didn't seem to understand :d .

After I was done eating I'd typically have about 35 minutes left of break, so I'd sit there in that cooler, arms folded on knees, head down on hands, close my eyes and just breathe through my nose with long draws, hold briefly, exhale through the nose quickly, then repeat this, never opening my mouth, as I found if I'd open my mouth and start exhaling through [or using my mouth in the inhale/exhale in any way] - I'd foil my attempt and my skin would instantly get blasted with the cold of the freezer, so then I'd regain my composure and start again, and again, and again. I found after about a week of doing this - I could settle into this sort've limbo-state, doing that breathing style through the nose strictly, staying focused on that, staying focused on that place, staying focused, absorbed ,though AS SOON as I would deviate - I'd fail and get instantly cold, goosebumps, etc. Doing this breathing exercise through the nose I also noticed would begin to generate this heat in the center of my chest and limbs.

This eventually carried over into all my winter hikes and winter camping. I had been doing this often when I'd be out. Never was able to do it in negative temperatures or windchil - it became just too distracting and obvious when I'd get blasted with those negative temps, very hard to control anything in those situations, though I'm sure it could be done if you were supremely dedicated, I failed pretty good though [check out Wim Hoff, though his methods are a bit different].

I think attention, absorption, with zero deviation and using this short-breath nose-style breathing would work for several situations, probably not for something an severe and intense as being burned alive or some other form of intense pain, I'm just not sure.

This also can carry over into intense forms of exercise where pain can be prevalent, though breathing style is different given the constant activity of intense exercise, though the concentration and absorption is the same I feel as what I had said above, there is a place that the pain doesn't reach I feel, and you're reactions - mentally and physiologically can be controlled and/or detached from, especially physiological response [emphasis on this] - I think in some way that response can be stifled. Where attention goes - energy flows.

If there's any clarification needed let me know.

**I know this doesn't hold a candle to the depth of pain a person can experience; though I think the hub that these sensations are mediated through can be controlled. Baby steps.

 

[AikyO]

Tatt's more elaborate answer that synchs with mine on some level brought to my attention that I forgot to tlk about the breathing I was doing. Speaking about meditation but not the breathing!

In the late weeks I had developed what I could call the invisible breath. I would activate the breath mechanism consciously but then let it run it's course in the slowest and most subtle way possible, actually the being subtle led naturally to slow breathing. I would barely move and couldn't hear my breath. Though soon I would start hearing my heartbeat and feel the energy flowing very smoothly in all my body, I could feel nuances in how it was flowing in my body. Exhalation would be more "layering" while inhalation would be more "centralised". They were variations of course, with different lenghts or cadencing for breathing, and different position of tongues which I was also experimenting with

While fire is a different beast I encourage everybody to face the cold. Relaxing in the freezing hands of death is an interesting exercise. I see pain the same way, pain is contraction, holding onto, when you relaxe deeply, everything may vanish into eternity.

 

[○]

In the late weeks I had developed what I could call the invisible breath. I would activate the breath mechanism consciously but then let it run it's course in the slowest and most subtle way possible, actually the being subtle led naturally to slow breathing. I would barely move and couldn't hear my breath. Though soon I would start hearing my heartbeat and feel the energy flowing very smoothly in all my body, I could feel nuances in how it was flowing in my body. Exhalation would be more "layering" while inhalation would be more "centralised". They were variations of course, with different lenghts or cadencing for breathing, and different position of tongues which I was also experimenting with

While fire is a different beast I encourage everybody to face the cold. Relaxing in the freezing hands of death is an interesting exercise. I see pain the same way, pain is contraction, holding onto, when you relaxe deeply, everything may vanish into eternity.

That's actually something I forgot to mention - the slowness and/or slowing down of the breath. If I worked to slow my breathing down along with strictly what I'd mentioned above - the bite of the cold on my skin became relatively non-existent/no reaction - physiological or otherwise.

Cold's a great teacher.

Thanks for highlighting what you did ÅikyǬ, I agree with ya. Cheers

 

[AikyO]

Ai! Thank you too Your answer actually reminded me of something else! It helped me for the slowing down and the subtle way. It's where you breath in your noze (or mouth), you can exercise to breath progressively deeper and deeper - it's a bit weird to explain - inside the nostril/mouth.

Once, I was initiated to Kashmir Yoga, it was extremely powerful, the teacher taught us to breath like the dead. It's this very deep breath that comes from far, very far. It's like a rale. He told us we breath more like this when we dream, so I guess it helps to lower the state of concioucness a lot. What I did with the cold is a variation of that technique I guess, it wasn't so conscioussly pursued but it's the best I can explain it.

Also, if you want to get better with the cold, bath in cold lakes or water, it will streghtne the skin and you will feel more alive, actualy, the cold often makes you feel alive and sharp when you merge with it. There must be pathways to explore this relating to fire, though, obviously, fire is more dangerous in the moment.

 

[Psilosopher?]

No self, no-mind - I agree with auxin on those points.

I'll add my opinions:

I have some minor experience with this, though obviously not to the degree of burning myself alive, though I think my experiences touch on a similar place. Used to work at a seafood shop, massive walk-in coolers, walk into one, then right ahead there was a door leading to another cooler section with a 10 degree temperature drop from the first cooler. I used to sit in that second cooler and eat my lunch during break, every single day; main reason was because I didn't want to go sit out in public eating [was pretty non-social at the time]. I did this every day for about 2 years. My co-workers would laugh and make jokes haha; they didn't seem to understand :d .

Wow, i thought i was the only one that did this. When i worked at KFC (and late high school), i had this medical condition. I was diagnosed with exercise and heat induced urticaria. Except, mine was an extreme variant. Basically, when i got too hot or exercised too strenuously, i would get extremely painful rashes all over my body. It felt like millions of burning needles, stabbing every part of my skin. Was hospitalised a few times because of the pain.

So, at KFC, i would always take my breaks in the -40C freezer room. Yeah. Minus 40 degrees Celsius. And for you Yanks out there (seriously, use metric), -40C is also -40F.

It was euphoric bliss, compared to the pain of the urticaria. If the pain was too intense, i would submerge my head in a bucket of water, then go in the freezer. My ears literally froze solid, and i could have snapped them off.

The only thing that would alleviate it, in the absence of a freezer, for some reason was energy drinks. Like Mother, Monster, V, Red Bull. I don't know why, part of me thinks it's placebo, since the first time i drank it, the pain went away almost instantly. Suffice to say, i would drink that crap every day for about 2 years. That is, until, i started smoking ganja regularly.

Ganja almost entirely cured this condition. I don't even have to smoke that often. One smoke would keep me clear for about 3 months, then i'd notice that i'd get mild rashes with heat or exercise. But regular smoking, and i never got the pain. Don't know why, and i don't really care. Just glad that it doesn't flare up anymore.

 

[○]

Nice to know I'm not alone in this regard Psilosopher?

The cooler I sat in was in between 25-28F I think, can't remember exactly. It did become blissful eventually for me, probably some physiological response - ie: cold-shock proteins n' such [same goes for intense saunas and heat-shock proteins; there's some interesting papers on these things].

I know I'd always feel pretty relaxed - mentally and physically after having stepped out after my break. This didn't happen right away, think it was about 2-3 weeks into doing it, eventually compounding a bit, building up this really nice, blissful, relaxed state. Cheers