n0thing said:
PsyDuckmonkey said:
It seems that either you have a confrontational attitude, or something I said in the OP struck a nerve with you and thereby you retaliated by posting an attack on my OP in ways that clearly are not justified, by which I have proven above. If you want to argue, do it correctly and without attitude.
Being all high and mighty is pretty confrontational too.
Anyway, yes something definitely struck a nerve. The way I see it, you set up a straw puppet in your opening message to beat up. Asking people how the DMT world provides personal conviction for an afterlife is a valid, and open question. But asking them, and then following up with "and what if you are wrong", is just provocation in my opinion.
It is fully obvious that nobody can argue with "but what if not". It's not an argument, it's like what kids do in kindergarten, like "it's not" "yes it is" "it's not" "yes it is"... Well what if? In that case we just die and that's it, there's really no point in prolonging the discussion.
So that's why I was asking you what exactly you were expecting when asking the "question". People trying to explain how they got a subjective conviction of the seniority of spirit over matter (as it did in fact happen)? So that you can reply with "yea but how can you prove it" (as you more or less did)?
Well really, the only answer to that question is no how. That's why it's called a subjective conviction.
So the question remains, was your goal with this discussion to have someone present you irrefutable proof of their subjective conviction, or for you to logically deny someone's subjective conviction, or to get some kind of public validation for your own beliefs? The first is unfeasible, the second is called trolling at best, the third is well, whatever.
So my "confrontational" reaction was in response to the implications of asking such an unanswerable and insidious question.
The way I see it, the OP was just simply asking "should we believe what DMT shows us about the afterlife" and did so in a way of asking "How does it do that?"
Because by seeing how it does it, you can see whether or not it can be a reliable thing to believe in.
I don't think the OP wasn't asking you to prove it so much as he was pointing to
the fact that you can't prove it invalidates any sort of personal conviction you may have no matter how convincing it is, which is a sound and valid statement to make rationally and philosophically. It is important because the same thing has been going on for thousands of years in religion and small children (as someone mentioned santa clause :lol: )
Perhaps the OP was looking for discussion on the matter as opposed to a finite solution to solve all problems. In fact rarely do conversations with people end in completion. Conversation is like a dance or a work of art, it is more in the process and not the finality of how it happens that you learn more about what is going on in our minds. As I understand it, inquiries in to logically analyzing people's subjective convictions is not trolling which you seem to state it is. That is indeed how we arrive at a more truthful and less deceived way of living and is the reason why the westernized models of the world are more logical and practical because we have analyzed religious beliefs systems (like ISIS) with the same logical integrity as n0thing is doing to the subjective convictions people have with DMT and see how deceptive it could be or how unaligned with reason it is to believe in metaphysical states. Imagine if a child grew up and spent the rest of her life believing in santa claus and that she was going to the north pole when she dies? Sure, she is entitled to believe that but that entitlement doesn't make it any more reasonable. For this reason, no one can deny that it is of prime importance that we try and free ourselves from delusions and that includes illusory beliefs in unfounded things.
So the questions of HOW dmt gives us such a strong personal conviction is a very genuine question. For if by analyzing how we knew santa clause existed and all we got was "because mummy and daddy told us so" then we would know where our faults may lie.
So I assume that is why the question is how can we analyze further how dmt gives us such strong impressions? Which I think as of yet has been missed in this thread completely, probably because of it's difficulty or perhaps impossibility to do so.
I think the topic title should be change to "is intuitive knowledge trustworthy?". As we can see time and time again, rationality doesn't always provide us with adequate solutions to problems (like that of the afterlife), but this doesn't necessarily mean intuitive knowledge is a replacement, does it?