How exactly to accomplish first defatting?

[rudder]

Hello,

In this thread:

DMT Extraction Overview - FAQ - All your basic questions and answers - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I notice this defatting step:

(Optional) First Defatting Opportunity (Acid/Base Extraction Only)

If you made an acidic extract of the DMT salt, you can now take the opportunity to remove unwanted plant fats and impurities by extracting your acidic solution with a couple volumes of nonpolar solvent and the solvent discarded. Naphtha, toluene, or xylene are all acceptable for this step.

This is a very brief explanation, and as a beginner I have no idea how to accomplish this. So you have a bunch of acidic liquid that has been strained through coffee filters, and then you add naptha to it? Then what? Shake? Stir? Then what? How do you separate what? Pictures would be helpful.

Do I use a gravy separator for this step? How does it work?

The basic idea is to mix an alkaline DMT solution with a nonpolar solvent. Since DMT will exist in its uncharged freebase form in alkaline solutions, and the freebase is much more soluble in nonpolar solvents than it is in water, much of the DMT will migrate into the nonpolar solvent when they're mixed.

Why wouldn't the DMT migrate to the naptha during the first defatting?


Thanks in advance

 

[arcanum]

If you were using MHRB, simply the acid cook and straining away the sludge would be all that you'd need to do before basifying. Why complicate matters? I believe that NPS defat is indicated when trying to extract from Phalaris.

If using MHRB, you will get very consistant results by following the tek in the DMT handbook . Not to say that other teks are no good, but the one described works every time and is so easy to follow.

 

[rudder]

Oh I guess I should have specified. It's for acacia phyllodes and bark.

 

[anabolic_hippie]

i wouldnt strain the root bark out i always get bigger yeilds leaving it in after the acid wash. so when your acid wash is done add non polar solvant (naptha or whatever) swish it around dont shake it intensly then pull the naptha out (it will sit on the top layer) discard this naptha basify your liquid and rootbark shake add more naptha do 3 pulls and freeze and the dmt will crystalize and your good to go if your having any probs with these steps let me know i will help

 

[rudder]

i wouldnt strain the root bark out i always get bigger yeilds leaving it in after the acid wash. so when your acid wash is done add non polar solvant (naptha or whatever) swish it around dont shake it intensly then pull the naptha out (it will sit on the top layer) discard this naptha basify your liquid and rootbark shake add more naptha do 3 pulls and freeze and the dmt will crystalize and your good to go if your having any probs with these steps let me know i will help

OK first of all I'm not dealing with rootbark of any kind. I'm talking mostly about Acacia mearnsii phyllodes and branch bark.

Second, you're saying that during the defatting step, the naphtha (or whatever non-polar solvent) will float in its own layer on top of the acidic mixture of low pH liquid and plant matter.

Do I want to also avoid creating an emulsion at this step?

So, I stir very gently and then wait for a few minutes (how long?) until the the solvent layer separates to the top?
And I pour out the gravy separator, so the bottom layer goes, and the top layer stays. Then I put the gravy separator aside and forget about it until the end of the extraction since the liquid (and fats) that the gravy separator contains will not be used for anything.

That's how I understand it. Correct me if I'm wrong. But also please let me know if I'm right.

 

[acacian]

dont shake it as that will cause emulsion.. just gently swirl the bottle around or turn upside down continually.. just mix the liquid somehow without getting bubbles. no shaking

 

[rudder]

How long do you leave the solvent with the mixture for defatting? e.g. Carefully stir in the solvent and wait 24 hours, separate off solvent, add more solvent and wait 24 more hours, separate off solvent?

How much solvent do you add? An amount equal to the solution that's already present?

Edit: Acacian, how long should you wait at every step? This question might be in the FAQ. If so, please link to it. I couldn't find it, so I'm assuming it's different for every method, but you know the method I'm talking about, acacian.

 

[rudder]

i wouldnt strain the root bark out i always get bigger yeilds leaving it in after the acid wash.

That's good to know, because my vitamix powdered the phyllodes to such a degree that I was only able to get a couple drops of liquid through the coffee filter when trying to filter the boiled vinegar mush.

 

[EcoEvo]

Second, you're saying that during the defatting step, the naphtha (or whatever non-polar solvent) will float in its own layer on top of the acidic mixture of low pH liquid and plant matter.

Although the naphtha will float on top of the plant liquid if it's acidic, you want to make sure you basify before adding the naphtha as DMT is only soluble in naphtha in its freebase form. If your mixture is still acidic, you will not pull any DMT from it as it is present as a salt which is soluble in water.

Also, I've noticed that if you basify to a high enough pH (13 or above), emulsions will rarely form. I have also found that more plant fats and oils are pulled into the naphtha the hotter it is. Therefore, don't boil the naphtha before adding it to the alkaline solution, just make sure it's nice and warm and this will minimize the amount of undesirables in your final product.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Second, you're saying that during the defatting step, the naphtha (or whatever non-polar solvent) will float in its own layer on top of the acidic mixture of low pH liquid and plant matter.

Although the naphtha will float on top of the plant liquid if it's acidic, you want to make sure you basify before adding the naphtha as DMT is only soluble in naphtha in its freebase form.

Not if you're defatting...then you want your aqueous phase to be acidified so that your alkaloids stay in solution and the plant fats, oils, etc. are pulled into the non-polar solvent. That way, when you do basify your aqueous phase and pull your DMT with a NPS, you get less of the unwanted fats, oils, etc.

 

[EcoEvo]

Oh my mistake I was under the impression we were no longer talking about defatting. In that case, I find that the hotter the naphtha, the more plant fats and oils it will pull. I've boiled naptha at times before adding it to solution and you end up with lots of yellow and red gunk which is of course what you're trying to get rid of.

 

[rudder]

Thanks for the tip. I'll try heating the solvent before adding it for the defat.