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How much Purer Rue Manske Alkaloids become when adding Basification step...

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plumsmooth

plumsmooth

Rising Star
Having a pretty golden 3-4x Manse purified Rue Extraction, I am wondering what advantage adding a Sodium Carbonate Basification (purification) step would achieve?

Would it make the extract purer?

I guess I could try it.

IS there an exact recipe for the Sodium Carbonate approach -- like there is with the Salt quantity with the Manske?

IS there any reason not to finish with the Salt instead of Na2Co3 as the final step?

If for Oral, seems like Sodium Chloride would be preferable to Sodium Carbonate as a final containment?

Thanks for your Time...
 
IS there an exact recipe for the Sodium Carbonate approach
Click to expand...
IME needly fb crystals are more likely to form if you only add sodium carb solution until clouding begins to occur, but if that's not important to you then there's no reason not to just keep adding it until maximum milkyness is achieved.

If you rinse your freebase in water a few times, there shouldn't really be any sodium carbonate left.

I use freebase just because I've always thought it's easier to dose consistently due to less contamination.
 
There's no recipe for sodcarb amounts like there is for manske (for example 15 to 20 gr salt in 100 ml of liquid), not in that way. Stop adding sodcarb could best be decided by checking pH.

Manske salt contamination can range from 10 to 100% depending. I've really registered 100 % as a matter of fact but it was on purpose to see where the limits are. The best results I got after centrifuging, then only 10% salt contamination was weighted.

As slewb said, washing takes out any sodcarb contamination. Another way: make a final wash with diluted ammonia (3%) so this base evaporates completely and leaves no contamination at all.

The question: should you? I think you're set from a most practical point of interest. Any further attempt is strictly optional and will not really change much noticeable. Only if you want to proceed in separating the compounds etc then more efforts are needed.

After years of having a mansked final, nowadays the FB is on the menu. This could be personal/subjective but the FB seems not harder on the stomach as I thought it was. And perhaps the salt rest wasn't really helping things either.
 
I guess the bodies HCL easily converts the FB back to salt form...

However, any ideas on finishing back to salt form without using "salt"...

To end up with a purer salt than Manske?

Thanks...

In some case I thought I remember someone criticizing the taste or even stomach load with FB harmalas...

Might have been endless...
 
plumsmooth said:
I guess the bodies HCL easily converts the FB back to salt form...

However, any ideas on finishing back to salt form without using "salt"...

To end up with a purer salt than Manske?

Thanks...

In some case I thought I remember someone criticizing the taste or even stomach load with FB harmalas...

Might have been endless...
Click to expand...
After weighing my dose I just redissolve in a few ml of vinegar or lemon/lime juice and take that. Never had any tummy trouble from it.
 
IF someone would be kind enough to refer me to the respective Molecular weights of Harmine/Harmaline FB/Salt for the sake of this simple experiment I would like to try... I will try the nexus personal search as well...

I want to take my very clean 3-4X Manske, redissolve with Na2CO3 and see what the weight differential is thereby determining how much purer the basfication approach yields...

Also if someone would be kind enough to give me a round about amount of Sodium Carbonate to add I would appreciate it...

For Example, somewhere someone (cosmic lion) was taking 200ml harmala Solution with 3g dirty harmalas and adding up to 100ml saturated NA2CO3 or less to achieve this PH conversion. I like those figures because sounds like low potential for excess NA2CO3, and of course can water rinse!

But if dirty salt Harmalas clean up by about 1/3 to FB -- and FB is lighter anyway -- then my super clean 4X Rue Harmalas might only clean up a little and therefore Molecular weight differential would be important to gauge the result!

And if 4X reX clean Whole Seed Boiled Rue Harmalas only clean up 10% then I would probably say not worth the trouble?

at 200 mg that might mean only 20mg Salt?

Ready for a Laugh: One medium stalk of celery has about 30 milligrams of sodium.

Maybe a Rue Harmala Dose equivalent to one stalk of Celery should/would be considered reasonably pure::thumb_up:
 
You know it!

pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Harmine Hydrochloride

Harmine Hydrochloride | C13H13ClN2O | CID 5359389 - structure, chemical names, physical and chemical properties, classification, patents, literature, biological activities, safety/hazards/toxicity information, supplier lists, and more.
pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
BTW what I meant by salt contamination (10 to 100%) was above, so surplus the stoichiometric numbers.
 
Harmine hydrochloride is usually a dihydrate as far as I know. So you need to add the weight of two water moles to the 248.072 g/mol for harmine.HCl

Sigma Aldrich lists harmine.HCl*2H2O as having a molar weight of 286.75 . That is quite a bit more than the 212.25 for the freebase.

Careful technique will keep salt contamination below 10%. Don't use more than 100 g/l salt in the final Manske precipitation, use vacuum filtration and press filter cakes between paper towels until no more moisture comes out.

Harmala HCl salts are extremely stable to keep. Freebases will degrade over time.
 
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