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How soon do you take your DMT after the MAOI?
- Thread starter Astralking
- Start date
69ron said:psychosisdoses said:Jorkest said:
and thats all that matters
I'd like to know the science behind it. Not just that it works.
well im sorry i really dont know what to tell you
i just got an idea and tried it.. it works better for me
im not a scientist
It would be easy to do an experiment with a container filled with some acid apropriate for simulating stomach acid.69ron said:psychosisdoses said:Jorkest said:
and thats all that matters
I'd like to know the science behind it. Not just that it works.
You put a gel cap with and without a hole, filled with some powder (prefarably some sort of ink that you could see right away) in the container and watch.
It perfectly makes sense that the stomach acid would dissolve the goods inside the capsule faster, once it entered the hole and that, once dissolved it spreads throughout the stomach.
I also think that the capsule as a whole would dissolve faster once the stomach acid eats it from both sides.
ofcourse you'd have to do it separately, or you don't know where the ink came from.
joebono
Rising Star
I used to mix the DMT in OJ and drink that. Then I tried swallowing DMT in a capsule. I open the capsule, discard the smaller portion and down the other half with the goods. I have never noticed a difference in intensity or duration or onset - whether I use orange juice or not, capsule or not - the effects are the same. I like the half capsule method because I don't taste anything and my stomach gets the DMT immediately.
Weird that it would work stronger in a capsule with a hole in it compared to powder or just a capsule. Could it be that it somehow is released further down in the digestive system? I know that dmt for sure is stronger when taken rectally compared to orally. Perhaps it is some kind of enteric pill...But I don't know why just a normal capsule wouldn't work the same.
capsules never seem to work as well..I have had pure capsulated MDMA once at a psy party and took it with 3 friends as I opened mine up and put it in water..and I was wayyy more blasted that either of them were..and it came on much faster as well.
I have taken capsulated supplements for the last year to rebuild my digestive system and they always seem to stick in my upper digestive tract and come back up before the dissolve..I dont see how capsules can possibily be more effective than just putting it in water or putting holes into the capsule..I never thought about holes in the capsule but it's a good idea.
I have taken capsulated supplements for the last year to rebuild my digestive system and they always seem to stick in my upper digestive tract and come back up before the dissolve..I dont see how capsules can possibily be more effective than just putting it in water or putting holes into the capsule..I never thought about holes in the capsule but it's a good idea.
69ron
Rising Star
fractal enchantment said:
That’s my thinking exactly.
Often the capsule gets stuck in the esophagus where it can do little good.
The capsules get sticky when they become wet. If you put one on your tongue for a minute and try to swallow it, it stays stuck on your tongue and is hard to swallow. I think often times this happens in the esophagus. You swallow the capsule, try to force it down with some water. It gets wet, and sticks to the walls of your esophagus.
usually what i do..is allow the cap to get coated in saliva..and have had no problems with sticking...DRY caps on the other hand DO get stuck...not sure how or why...but...poking a hole in the cap DOES work...i dont know HOW it works...but its just like i dont know HOW dmt does what it does...but i know it works
69ron
Rising Star
Jorkest, if you say it works, I believe you. You’re the type who tests things out for real and doesn’t get things clouded up with personal opinions. So, I’m not questioning that it works. The proof I’m looking for is scientific evidence that explains how it works. How it’s been proven to work, not that it works.
It makes sense that poking a hole would allow gastric juices to enter the capsule and probably lead to it dissolving faster. Also, there’s air in the capsule because you pack it in the air. The trapped air in a capsule with no holes would cause the capsule to float on top of the gastric juices, and hinder its dissolution. It seems to me that multiple holes would be better than 1 hole.
I think the capsule is getting stuck someone in the digestive system because of the air contained in it. With a hole, as the capsule gets wet and starts to melt a little, it can easily collapse and let the air out of the hole, and then quickly sink. But with no hole, the air is trapped until a hole is made by the digestive process, and so it wants to float until a hole is made. A capsule that is floating is going to dissolve more slowly than a capsule that is not floating.
It makes sense that poking a hole would allow gastric juices to enter the capsule and probably lead to it dissolving faster. Also, there’s air in the capsule because you pack it in the air. The trapped air in a capsule with no holes would cause the capsule to float on top of the gastric juices, and hinder its dissolution. It seems to me that multiple holes would be better than 1 hole.
I think the capsule is getting stuck someone in the digestive system because of the air contained in it. With a hole, as the capsule gets wet and starts to melt a little, it can easily collapse and let the air out of the hole, and then quickly sink. But with no hole, the air is trapped until a hole is made by the digestive process, and so it wants to float until a hole is made. A capsule that is floating is going to dissolve more slowly than a capsule that is not floating.
well what i plan on doing..is loading up a cap with 200mg worth of random powder..poking a hole in one end....acidifying some water...and gently placing the capsule on top...obviously stomach conditions are much harsher than this..but i think this will be a good test...its very possible the cap COULD float...but i have yet to look down my throat
hehehehe that rhymed!
anyway..this test should be easy enough...add 200mg of powder to a cap..poke hole...place it on top of acidic liquid..and then pour water over it..if it sinks..and releases the powder...better than a closed cap...then we have found the reason...
give me some time though..because as of now...the resin is coursing through me...and i am not capable of performing any sort of experiment!
hehehehe that rhymed!
anyway..this test should be easy enough...add 200mg of powder to a cap..poke hole...place it on top of acidic liquid..and then pour water over it..if it sinks..and releases the powder...better than a closed cap...then we have found the reason...
give me some time though..because as of now...the resin is coursing through me...and i am not capable of performing any sort of experiment!
the reason the caps are sticky is just cause the whole thing is made from the same materals, etiher gelatin or cellulose...mostly, with few other things added like starches etc. the material needs to be sticky so the sides will join properly, and just ends up cheaper to make the whole thing the same material not caring about the guy taking it :lol:
what I would guess happens with the hole in the cap is one of two things, possibly mix of them even...One, the hole gives a little more surface area and that part of the cap breaks down faster and the cap opens like peeling a bannana. The other thing I was thinking was with the trapped air inside the cap when it goes under water it is not only sucking in liquid but would also be forcing out the air making like a vaccuum sucking in more liquid...think of putting an empty soda bottle or something under water, makes some pretty violant bubbles. Also consider how much your stomach turns over, I dont think its an issue of floating...unless you were sitting totally still and waited after a meal settled or something...but still, its rolling in there.
I also think that normal sealed caps, not getting rinsed out by bubbles?, disolve and maybe fold over themselves causing pockets of material that take so long to break down and absorb by the time they do its already too late.
soo...none of that is science, just opinion...and thoughts. But thats what Im assuming happens untill further notice :lol:
edit* someone should try taking like a 500mg vitamin liquid gel cap and sucking out the liquid and injecting the maoi/dmt disolved in a few cc's of liquid that wouldn't eat the cap too fast. :shock: using a powder extract for the maoi of course.
what I would guess happens with the hole in the cap is one of two things, possibly mix of them even...One, the hole gives a little more surface area and that part of the cap breaks down faster and the cap opens like peeling a bannana. The other thing I was thinking was with the trapped air inside the cap when it goes under water it is not only sucking in liquid but would also be forcing out the air making like a vaccuum sucking in more liquid...think of putting an empty soda bottle or something under water, makes some pretty violant bubbles. Also consider how much your stomach turns over, I dont think its an issue of floating...unless you were sitting totally still and waited after a meal settled or something...but still, its rolling in there.
I also think that normal sealed caps, not getting rinsed out by bubbles?, disolve and maybe fold over themselves causing pockets of material that take so long to break down and absorb by the time they do its already too late.
soo...none of that is science, just opinion...and thoughts. But thats what Im assuming happens untill further notice
:lol: edit* someone should try taking like a 500mg vitamin liquid gel cap and sucking out the liquid and injecting the maoi/dmt disolved in a few cc's of liquid that wouldn't eat the cap too fast. :shock: using a powder extract for the maoi of course.
69ron
Rising Star
Bumber, those are all very likely.
With liquid, SWIM’s choice of ingestion, there’s nothing to hinder absorption. I used to like herb pills, but I’ve switched over to using herb tinctures or tea for most of my herbs. They nearly all work better that way.
For example, I have yohimbe tablets and a yohimbe tincture. The yohimbe tablets are not gel caps. They are compressed yohimbe with some binders. They take a few minutes to dissolve in water. If I take the tablets, the effects are delayed, and it’s not as strong. If I take the tincture dissolved in a cup of tea or coffee, the effects come on faster and are obviously stronger, but also fade faster. With faster absorption, you’ll get a faster onset, the peak will happen sooner, and the effects will fade sooner.
With oral DMT in a capsule with the MAOI, whatever is the most water soluble will come out of the capsule faster. The DMT should not come out of the capsule faster. If it does, the effects will be weaker. The MAOI should be present to protect the DMT. It’s best if the MAOI comes out a little faster than the DMT, but not too much faster, or you’ll get the same problem.
If the DMT and the MAOI are dissolved in water before ingestion, the MAOI and DMT are digested at almost he same rate. It would be advantageous if the MAOI was digested a few seconds before the DMT, but not several minutes before. The MAOI need to be in the stomach when the DMT is there. If the MAOI is taken ahead of the DMT by too much time, not enough will remain in the stomach to protect the DMT from MAO. Now I’m talking about RIMA MAOIs, like harmine. Once they leave the stomach, your MAO is pretty much back to normal, so they need to be in the stomach a few seconds before the DMT gets there for optimal effects.
Freebase DMT in a capsule will take much longer to dissolve than harmine HCl in a capsule. But DMT fumarate should dissolve at about the same rate as harmine HCl. Various forms of DMT will dissolve at different rates.
Basically, you want the harmine (or other MAOI) to dissolve just a little bit faster than the DMT. A few seconds faster is perfect.
A bad capsule mix would be freebase harmine, and DMT fumarate. In this case the DMT would dissolve much faster than the freebase harmine, and this would lead to much weaker effects.
With liquid, SWIM’s choice of ingestion, there’s nothing to hinder absorption. I used to like herb pills, but I’ve switched over to using herb tinctures or tea for most of my herbs. They nearly all work better that way.
For example, I have yohimbe tablets and a yohimbe tincture. The yohimbe tablets are not gel caps. They are compressed yohimbe with some binders. They take a few minutes to dissolve in water. If I take the tablets, the effects are delayed, and it’s not as strong. If I take the tincture dissolved in a cup of tea or coffee, the effects come on faster and are obviously stronger, but also fade faster. With faster absorption, you’ll get a faster onset, the peak will happen sooner, and the effects will fade sooner.
With oral DMT in a capsule with the MAOI, whatever is the most water soluble will come out of the capsule faster. The DMT should not come out of the capsule faster. If it does, the effects will be weaker. The MAOI should be present to protect the DMT. It’s best if the MAOI comes out a little faster than the DMT, but not too much faster, or you’ll get the same problem.
If the DMT and the MAOI are dissolved in water before ingestion, the MAOI and DMT are digested at almost he same rate. It would be advantageous if the MAOI was digested a few seconds before the DMT, but not several minutes before. The MAOI need to be in the stomach when the DMT is there. If the MAOI is taken ahead of the DMT by too much time, not enough will remain in the stomach to protect the DMT from MAO. Now I’m talking about RIMA MAOIs, like harmine. Once they leave the stomach, your MAO is pretty much back to normal, so they need to be in the stomach a few seconds before the DMT gets there for optimal effects.
Freebase DMT in a capsule will take much longer to dissolve than harmine HCl in a capsule. But DMT fumarate should dissolve at about the same rate as harmine HCl. Various forms of DMT will dissolve at different rates.
Basically, you want the harmine (or other MAOI) to dissolve just a little bit faster than the DMT. A few seconds faster is perfect.
A bad capsule mix would be freebase harmine, and DMT fumarate. In this case the DMT would dissolve much faster than the freebase harmine, and this would lead to much weaker effects.
Touche Guevara
Rising Star
Ron, what do you use for binders in your yohimbe tablets?
Touche Guevara
Rising Star
Ahh, I see. Thanks.