How SWIM extracts his DMT (I let him use my account to talk in chat)

[Czepa]

SWIM was explaining the way he extracts dmt to someone on chat and i thought i should share it. SWIM would like to know how people do it differently. is there anything he could add to make it better?

10:23:27 ‹Czepa› umm.. i dont know i just thought that tek used the basic A/B method.. but i actually got my basis from loki's tek
21/04/2010 10:23:34 ‹Czepa› and modified that one to suit mhrb
21/04/2010 10:23:38 ‹Czepa› that is an acacia tek
21/04/2010 10:23:43 ‹Czepa› and a really good one at that
21/04/2010 10:23:59 ‹Czepa› what i did.. ill explain it all:
21/04/2010 10:24:12 ‹Czepa› acid cook in roughly 50/50 vinegar/distilled water (add vinegar until ph is in between 2 and 3)
21/04/2010 10:24:26 ‹Czepa› for 100g probably 1.6L
21/04/2010 10:24:48 ‹Czepa› boil it for 45 mins.. then turn the heat down and let it cool. continue to stir.
21/04/2010 10:25:03 ‹Czepa› till 1 hour. then put in the fridge
21/04/2010 10:25:24 ‹Czepa› when its cold boil it again. add more vinegar perhaps..
21/04/2010 10:25:29 ‹Czepa› boil for 45 mins.
21/04/2010 10:26:27 ‹Czepa› then put a nice funnel above a big beaker, big meaning 2L+. or if you have a stand that you can put the funnel in this may be the way to go. (which has 10mm of naptha in it.) and place cotton wool buds in it. make a nice big surface...
21/04/2010 10:26:47 ‹Czepa› squish all the juice from the cotton balls and discard them.
21/04/2010 10:26:58 ‹Czepa› then separate that.. discard fat+naptha
21/04/2010 10:27:28 ‹Czepa› this time, do that same thing except use a charmin filter instead
21/04/2010 10:27:57 ‹Czepa› warning, you may only want to add a little bit of mixture at a time. cause you gotta change the filter every 500ml approx
21/04/2010 10:28:10 ‹Czepa› its get pretty clogged
21/04/2010 10:30:04 ‹Czepa› now after you seperate that last defat/filtration basify it to ph13+ (a little extra lye wont hurt). go probably 30g more than when it turns black and stops reacting
21/04/2010 10:31:45 ‹Czepa› 50ml pulls on 500ml of solution. so id hazard a guess of 1ml:10ml naptha:solution... have 4 Beakers available. 500ml ones
21/04/2010 10:35:54 ‹Czepa› separate 500ml of your solution at a time (this is assuming you have a 500ml sep funnel) and pour in 1 beaker the naptha from each 500ml of solution and have a beaker for each. label them 1,2, and 3 so that you can to 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3. if you want to, you can keep pulls separate... ie: the first "123" you could keep separate as this first pull will be the purest
21/04/2010 10:37:55 ‹Czepa› . then basically just fp your pulls, pour away the naptha (or keep it around to evap and maybe get a small smount of spice from that.), scrape it up, then let it dry out and there you go.

SWIM thinks maybe he could add some ascorbic acid at the start with his vinegar. say 50g approx. and he could also do a drying step to filter the water out of it. but is there anything else SWIM could do? better chemicals SWIM could use?

 

[endlessness]

what is the reasoning for letting acidic soup cool, putting in the fridge and boiling again? I dont think its any problem but I cant see how it would help in any way, but maybe you are thinking of something im not...

and another issue is you may be loosing a significant amount of actives by doing just 1x boil (or 2x but you are not filtering in between, you are using the same water).. Its like when washing clothes, if you put all the clothes in a bucket with water, when you pour that water out (no matter how long you let it there), there will still be some dirt in the clothes, so you gotta do at least a second wash with fresh water on those clothes. The same with extracting, you need to add fresh water to get more alkaloids.

Also, maybe a crude filtering with a lose cloth (like tshirt or smt) will help you, because straight away going for the funnel and cotton will clog too fast if all of your plant material is being filtered there.

 

[Czepa]

what is the reasoning for letting acidic soup cool, putting in the fridge and boiling again? I dont think its any problem but I cant see how it would help in any way, but maybe you are thinking of something im not...

well SWIM does this because he thinks that maybe it will lossen up the particles in the MHRB powder and let the dmt be released more easily. and following this reasoning he does not do a second cook, btw he forgot to mention that he did in fact use a handkerchief to squeeze all the liquid out of the powder, perhaps he could put a nice big layer of cotton balls in the funnel then lay a hankerchiefe over the top.

Its like when washing clothes, if you put all the clothes in a bucket with water, when you pour that water out (no matter how long you let it there), there will still be some dirt in the clothes, so you gotta do at least a second wash with fresh water on those clothes. The same with extracting, you need to add fresh water to get more alkaloids.

SWIM doesn't agree, if he squeezes it with a handkerchief SWIM end up with a pretty dry lump of powder which he discards. but you do have a point, SWIM may try 2 back to back extractions where a second wash is done and not done. but he suspects the loss will be negligible (80mg final yield loss?). SWIM received 1.4g last time he did the above steps with only 2 lazy final pulls. He believes that his method of defatting by dripping solution into naptha may reduce losses too? or is the dmt actually completely not able to go into the naptha from shaking when the solution is in acid form?

 

[endlessness]

but why would cold and no movement losen up particles? If you were freezing, you could have an argument that the freeze temperatures might burst cell walls or what-not, and this might release more dmt, but I really cant see how putting it in the fridge will help. At least thats how I see logic going, I might be wrong though, who knows, only a side-by-side would tell either way.

and what does the hankerchief and ending with a dry powder have to do with the fact that due to dissolution equilibria not all alkaloids will be present in the first wash? Its not just about getting all the liquid out, its because not all alkaloids will be in that liquid in the first place.

At least in my experience with all sorts of extractions (and washing clothes ), one ALWAYS needs to do more than one pull, no matter how long or thorough one does this first pull. Its just how it works chemically.. One might be losing 30+% yield! But if you try both ways side-by-side it will be an interesting experiment to tell the community about.

DMT in acidic solution will not move to the naphtha.

One last thing, about the hankerchief, isnt that too thick and blocks easy? I thought that it would help with the filter blocking if one used a more coarse cloth first, but whatever works for you is great

 

[Czepa]

but why would cold and no movement losen up particles? If you were freezing, you could have an argument that the freeze temperatures might burst cell walls or what-not, and this might release more dmt, but I really cant see how putting it in the fridge will help. At least thats how I see logic going, I might be wrong though, who knows, only a side-by-side would tell either way.

SWIM is a boilermaker and through learning practicality in metallurgy he finds that heating and cooling alters the structure of particles.. may it not be the same on a biological level. i mean they both have carbon in them.

and what does the hankerchief and ending with a dry powder have to do with the fact that due to dissolution equilibria not all alkaloids will be present in the first wash? Its not just about getting all the liquid out, its because not all alkaloids will be in that liquid in the first place.

ok, i looked that up on Wikipedia and it seems complicated. ill trust you on this one. note to SWIM: do 2 acid cooks... maybe he can do one cook for 45 mins and decant that. then put the damp plant material in the freezer, and then do 1 more acid cook.. good idea.

DMT in acidic solution will not move to the naphtha.

Thank you

One last thing, about the hankerchief, isnt that too thick and blocks easy? I thought that it would help with the filter blocking if one used a more coarse cloth first, but whatever works for you is great

good point, ill be ripping up an old shirt and use that instead.

 

[GirlsHateMe]

I find a shirt will clog easy too, perhaps you should go to the store and get some paint strainers, they come in bags of 3 usually and can be doubled up with ease to create a better filter, and they are super easy to wash and reuse and clogging is minimal to none, they are GREAT for filtering imo.