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how to change the war on drugs (lets do it together)

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endlessness

endlessness

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So here’s my plan: Write a very good text (however long that will turn out, who knows maybe a book) with coherent and convincing arguments for the legalization/decriminalization of drugs, and also with a plan/suggestions/ideas on how to actually put it in practice

We see all around people mentioning here and there why they think the war on drugs is stupid and useless or counter-productive, why things should be legalized or decriminalized and so on.. But mostly what we see is isolated arguments, opinions and a lack of coherency and better formulation. Also we mostly see criticism but very little practical suggestions, and also little information to back up the claims

So I have my own suggestions and arguments, but I’m only one person with few articles, official data and scientific studies of my knowledge to back up what I think. I figured if I ever want to come up with something proper, I need help. And what better place to ask for help than all these drug-related forums?

What Im asking you guys is to write in this thread a collection of arguments and ideas on how to change the war on drugs, on what can be done, on why it is wrong, on why it fails, on the history of why it became like this and so on… It would be great if some people could show official statistics with sources, and scientific studies..

Then I will start writing this thing up, might take a long time, but I will update everyone on how it is turning out, so people can give feedback and help editing…

In the worse case, we will have a collection of good info to check up when having a discussion with an annoying anti-drug person haha. In the best scenario, we come up with an amazing trans-disciplinary work that might be so convincing it could help governments and organizations establish measures to help the world dealing better with drugs…. Either way, it’s no loss of time imo…

So, any contribution is greatly appreciated, from little comments, to ideas, to criticism, to already done works and suggestions of books, to scientific articles and official statistics, and so on… No comment is stupid or useless

Thank you
 
Just my opinion
The war on drugs will end in the US when it becomes financially not profitable.
The war on drugs is like many other things the US does with all the extra $$$ we have.
Over the next 10-30 years oil prices will sky rocket, the US economy will shrink, any sitting president will think twice before he spends billions on the DEA budget just to keep some people from getting high. It’s already happening in many American cities and states, the local authorities are starting to complain about enforcing the drug laws because they cannot handle the flood of people into prisons. The US now has the highest incarceration rate and much of this due to the war on drugs. People are not kept in jail for free with the US standards.
I feel the tied already turning in the US, the average tax payer is starting to question spending this much money and a war that cannot be won, whether they give a crap about legalization or not its always about the money.
The states really cannot afford it anymore, most states budgets in the US are on a crash course for disaster, jack gas up another $2-3 over the next four years and that’s that, their fucked. People won’t care about enforcing drug laws when basic government functions aren’t being met.

I hate to say it but the best beat for legalization/decimalization in the US is massive shrinkage in the US economy.
Now how is that for pessimism? :)
 
endlessness id be happy to contribute some scientific data and facts in regard to this area. drugs are my field. just so you know there are a number of people in the scientific community on the right side. sometimes they are afraid to come out because of all the stigma but the tide is changing. ill PM you with some details.

reborn your right a lot of it does come down to money. however realize the U.S. government is already nearly bankrupt they are borrowing money to pay for their "war on [insert latest catch phrase]". also realize that many police departments are making money by stealing drug money and assets, millions!. not to mention corruption.

the DEA also has a vested interest in keeping this war going. it keeps their budget rolling.

but yes you are right why should tax payers be paying for a policy that isn't working and only creating more problems? it seems to be a forgotten issue in the wake of terrorism and the economy (which so often becomes an issue whenever elections start). a smart president would tie all these things together and show the public how we need "change" but...i don't have much faith in a smart president ever getting elected... at least in the near future, so it is up to the people really! if people stop acting so dumb the leaders will stop talking to us like stupid immature children and maybe realize we are interested in real issues not their fake solutions to problems they create in the first place.
 
Reborn said:
The war on drugs is like many other things the US does with all the extra $$$ we have.
Click to expand...
Total U.S public debt outstanding at this moment $9,370,288,314,000.78
What extra $$$ are you talking about exactly :lmao:
 
I would 110% support your cause endlessness for a multitude of reasons on why drugs should be legal or atleast regulated.Unlike another opinion,i dont believe it is a matter of the u.s. losing the ability of funding "the war on drugs". The war on drugs is a BIG joke "just say no" LOL.Its a big farce. Our governement would never want drugs distributed safely and legalized.It would take away from their profits.I could not even tell you the amount of money that is funded by major wall street players that are connected with politicians and world leaders,spending on the illegal importation of narcotics.Why do you think our Correcion facilities are mainly populated by small time drug offenders and not the real suppliers.The only major suppliers that the u.s took down was either they were getting way out of controll (threat to our authority) or the were cutting the crooked polititians out of the picture.Essentially there is too much money for crooked politicians and puppett masters to make off of th illegal status.The interesting thing is why they are even more uptight when it comes to lsd.I believe that the small group of people who make the desicions for the rest of us dont want us opening our minds to see the underlying truth of nature, because if that happened more and more sheep would leave the herd and abandon "the american dream",which would take away from corperate profits and cause more civil unrest or even better civil disobedience.I dont believe it's a social or moral issue when it comes to narcotics and its illegal status. I believe its just like everything else :It's all about the Benjamins baby. I dont want to even start on our addiction to oil. America was once a land of opportunity, freedom and demcracy.We have become an evil empire, all our motivation is about the greenback. Endlessness, i believe in what yo're saying and exactly why all narcotics should be legalized or regulated but as long at the people in charge are profiting off it's illegal status,narcotics will never be legal.I dont mean to be pessemistic either but.......
 
the word one billion.
One billion seconds ago it was 1959
one million minutes ago jesus walked the earth
one billion dollars ago (at the government spending rate) was 6hrs and 20 minutes
 
thanks very much all.. keep them replies coming

dwhitty (and all others), I got one question

I always hear this argument that the war on drugs generates money for the government.. How is that so? Can anyone explain to me more clearly? Aren´t they spending billions on the war ´against´ drugs? then how is money being generated in doing so? (im not disagreeing, just really want to understand this more clearly)

and also, how are politicians involved in the illegal importation of the drugs? any more specific info on that?

thanks :)
 
Oh of course the government is massively in debt but the people are not feeling it completely yet.
Taxes have not been massively raised yet. Gas is expensive but still manageable.
Food is still cheap.
And I completely agree the DEA and some police forces are making money off of it and of course they want to keep their jobs. It’s a massive industry with a lot of people worried they will lose their jobs upon decrimilization/legaglization.
While the war on drugs may make some individuals rich it doesn't help the overall US economy, I would argue that it hurts it. The war on drugs will end when we simply cannot afford it anymore; lots of people will lose their jobs, hmm wonder what other skills an adrenaline junkie DEA agent has???

When peak oil really hits and gas prices soar you will see a lot of changes in the US.
Question is will these be good changes, moving back to our roots or bad changes moving towards a completely state controlled society.
I believe at the heart the US is still a great country full of freedom loving folks that want limited goverment and want to provide for themselves. We have just lost our way with all the wealth and power. Hopefully we can find it back.
 
I always hear this argument that the war on drugs generates money for the government.. How is that so? Can anyone explain to me more clearly? Aren´t they spending billions on the war ´against´ drugs? then how is money being generated in doing so? (im not disagreeing, just really want to understand this more clearly)

and also, how are politicians involved in the illegal importation of the drugs? any more specific info on that?

There are many different ways that narcotics illegal status generates revenue.From the small time cop being paid to turn a blind eye,judges being paid off.I forget the amount of cocaine that dissapears every year from the dea's confiscation.Those minor examples, barely scrape the surface to the depths that the corruption goes.Sure money is spent on the so called 'war on drugs" (it's the cost of doing bussiness)but i can guarentee the profits being maid,weigh out the money being spent in a MASSIVE way.As far a specific polititians involved, i couldnt tell you.If you do a little research you'll find that bill clinton had financial ties with a food company,who's president was not only importing food but cocaine aswell.
The money trail runs deep and i dont claim to know everything about the subject although my feelings are pretty strong about the issue.If you look at the corruption and manipulation of oil prices you can easily draw a parrellel.There are also some good books you'll be able to find on the truth about the war on drugs.
On a different note. Endlessness,you were kind enough to help swim w/ his first mhrb extraction and he's in the middle of his second.I posted a question in the information section.If you dont mind glancing at it and tell me what you think,i'd appreciate it. Thanx. -D
 
education is step 1.
educate the masses with FACTS.
straight forward good teachers that are paid well and love to teach, they must know how to reach kids.
teachers suck in my experience, only %20 are good at what they do.(you may think students learn different, but a good teacher is a good teacher) university has %60 good teachers ime.
oh and grades dont matter. the grades system sucks the big one. kids dont learn crap. they memorize words and definitions not actual theories and systems.(they learn 'what' instead of 'why') like giving a hobo a fish instead of teaching him to fish. :)

the person that teachers you the most in your life is your parent.
its too late to change our parents.
but by educating the children of today they will become the good parents of tomorrow.

media change is step 2.
the effective execution of step 1 can and will change EVERYTHING.
and media will be the first to change.
educated people dont sit infront of the tv for hours.
the media controls our world whether you agree or not.
tv shows/movies are what others see/think.
watching tv makes you think simarlarly to the creators of that show. you can, as an open minded person chose to disagree, but how many open minded folks do you really think this world has at the moment?im betting %20.
media is a business. they are trying to create shows that will earn them money.
shows that people will sit infront of for hours a day.
they arnt creating shows like artist create paintings.

step 3 is government.
once the people change through proper education (education is obtained through proper government, a loop which starts with changing schools) the government will be changed by these educated individuals.

step 1 is all that is needed.
all in all the world needs more open minded, educated individuals. like us.
We should take over, we should rule this world, WE can make it a better place through education.
but we are too lazy. kinda, you know?
 
reborn, yeah that´s what I think too.. There may be individual profiting people, but overall it seems like more money going down the drain than making others richer...

diox8tony, I definitely agree with you that education is the key, and thats what im aiming for in life, to develop a better education system..

dwhitty, cant find the questions you ask, is it the ´pretty crystals´ one? doing a few CFCs (cold freeze cycles), as the second poster said in his third paragraph, is the best way
 
Hi, fu*kin´good question, like you Americans say :), but you simply can´t find better arguments for legalization than 10 points-list summed up at the end of Food of the gods book, it´s impossible. Or just say ,, Go green or die", society must understand.
Legalization is good, but inconceivable.
 
it all comes down to $$. besides the business of law enforcement/prosecution, it's about the big business of suppression...by established big businesses. One only needs to look at the past, for instance, reefer madness....the crusade led by Anslinger was due to business interest groups funding his campaign. And who flips the bill in all of this?
you and i...the taxpayers. some people are profiting on all of this no doubt, and it isn't the common men/women. it's the wealthy CEOs and owners of pharm companies, petro companies, textile companies..the list goes on and on.

essentially, we were all screwed when the railroad industry was granted the same legal representation as a person, at the dawn of the american industrial revolution. this meant businesses have more say than you or I, because they have more money behind their votes.
 
see, that's the problem though... americans have become too complacent. we've come to expect big brother to protect us from the evils of the world, while letting us consume to our hearts content. we're systematically dumbed down by TV ads and billboards, stupid pointless cartoon rhetoric with an alien getting the girl because he doesn't smoke pot. most people are content with just alcohol, no mental stimulating agents. convenience has replaced creativity over the last decade, I hope this changes. even if people were to be educated, I don't think most would care.

perhaps if more of people's choices were taken away, it would get people ticked off, and they may actually start thinking. i mean, jeez...look what happens when the price of gas is pushed up to more than a gallon of milk. people stop buying ridiculously impractical suvs and start buying more sensible vehicles.

but comparing cars to psychotropic drug use is neither here nor there. something more catastrophic than an oil crisis would need to occur, like perhaps an economic catastrophe that would require restructuring of the us treasury. JFK had the right idea, except it got him killed...abolish the federal reserve.
reverting to a bartering system may promote creativity, and some psychotropics may aid in this aspect. it's terrence mckenna's utopian ideal of an archaic revival, one that was also shared by robert anton wilson.
 
I think as a society becomes more densely populated, people just begin imposing themselves upon their neigbors, and boundries become skewed. Like an entropic effect, the distinction between public and private becomes increasingly blurred. And then the force of public policy gets applied to ever more arenas of people's private afairs.
 
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