How to get past social considerations during trips?

[RAM]

For a while, every single one of my psychedelic trips has taken a negative slant. This slant made its way quickly into my simple marijuana highs as well. I'm seeking advice on how to move away from it, and it's not as easy as "don't think about it anymore."

During my second LSD trip, maybe about one year ago, I envisioned the entire planet of Earth as a floating sphere with a bunch of monkeys conducting insignificant monkey business on the planet (I made a whole post about those trips here). I saw everything humans do as streamlined monkey activities, and it was kind of depressing.

From here on, my trips became increasingly personal. Mescaline was the exception, but the ideas were still present. I felt more psychologically assaulted on shrooms, LSD, and eventually even DMT.

I read about the amazing experiences people have here on DMT, and I won't lie, I have had awesome breakthroughs that were not personal. But a couple weeks ago I had my first daytime DMT trip that tore through every element of my life and showed me how pretty much everyone I know is an incentive based animal person. And just last week I took a bit more than an eighth of shrooms, and I had the thoughts return.

These "thoughts" that I keep mentioning concern social activities and questions regarding my own life. Frequent questions that cause me unease include but are not limited to: What are we doing here? Am I happy? What are all these people doing? Are they happy? What am I doing with my life? Am I doing what society wants me to do, and should I? What is the value of being happy? What's good for me and my body? Am I supposed to be doing something? How do I balance ego and happiness? Does any of this matter?

There are also compulsive thoughts as well. Weird thoughts such as, "If I were to hit this person, they wouldn't like me anymore. Who would like me if I was crazy? What's crazy? I could do something to this person." I also think a lot about how fake so many people I know are, and how fake I have to be sometimes for personal benefit. The severe shallowness of people I know is another source of concern.

Pretty much, any time I trip I have the thought, "This is so bad and it happens every time, why do I keep doing this to myself?" Sometimes I feel like I'm losing my mind as well because of all of this, but once I go to sleep and get up the next morning, I'm content with the insights I gained from the day before's trip.

You're advice might be, "Just stop doing psychedelics, at least for a while." I've tried and it's of no avail. The sickest part is that I view all of these social concerns as insights, and when I do not trip for long enough, my ego builds, and I become the very thing I despise. This leads to bouts of anger and depression as well; it's almost as if I burn out my depression while tripping, and then I'm good for about a month. Yet after I trip, the negative social thoughts linger.

The cognitive benefits from psychedelics and marijuana are great. Being able to think about concepts in abstract ways and analyze society and read people are all awesome skills that psychedelics provide. So while I could stop, I'd rather not.

I want to know, do you ever think these types of things while tripping? Do you ever feel that psychedelics tear through your life and show you how fake you and most people you know are? How can I get past these social and personal thoughts while tripping to reach higher levels? Does it involve more tripping in nature?

Or is painful social critique just the cost of being a psychedelic pioneer?

I apologize if any sections seem incoherent, and I'll gladly expand on anything that is not clear.

 

[RhythmSpring]

Sounds totally coherent to me! I am familiar with what you are describing, a sort of point of diminishing returns, or, what I like to call, "The Psychedelic Ceiling."

You describe it very well. You want to improve your life (I gather this from your continued psychedelic use), but the usual tools for doing so are falling short. And taking breaks/trying to integrate isn't quite working, either.

My solution to hitting the psychedelic ceiling is basically to take harmalas. If I'm feeling lost in my attempts at transcendence, like I see how everything is connected but it isn't making me happy (or stressing me OUT), I realize I need to put the experience in the context of my own personal life--to ground the energy of transcendence. This personalization of the experience puts it into the context of, "How can *I* be more aligned with the world? How can I be healthier in mind, body, and spirit?" Because, let's face it, ANYthing that is stressing you out is a place where you are out of harmony with the universe.

I suggest taking harmalas (I "like" syrian rue tea- lightly simmered just for a few minutes). As I drink it, I think about things in my life that I wish could be different, things about myself, particularly. I conjoin the bitter sensation on my tongue with the bitterness of seeing the parts in myself and my life that I am dissatisfied with. I take the rue, ruing. It is a beautiful act of embracing your sadness, your dismay. From this experience my genes remember the spiritual origins of religiously-encouraged repent. With rue as the catalyst, it can be quite cleansing.

And perhaps with this combination of tryptamines/lysergamides in your system and harmalas, you will see a greater meaning behind the smart monkey-filled world.

Much luck and love.

 

[The Hermit]

I can very much relate, sounds like a lot of my old acid experiences.

RhythmSpring's advice sounds on point, and I'm gonna echo a little. I would put down LSD, even shrooms for a while, start with harmalas, and if you want to add DMT down the line, always let the harmalas lead, with the spice just being the fuel. The healing aspects for me always sit deep within the vine / rue, to the point at which they become revelationary before I've even started to introduce spice, and always, always with a positive drive behind them

 

[RAM]

Thank you both for your advice.

Interestingly enough, as I was composing my above story, I was thinking about how harmalas could be used to alleviate some of these pressures and how my path has somewhat led me to them.

I recently acquired a large amount of Syrian Rue seeds from one of our sustainable suppliers, and they are sitting ready to be used right now. I am preparing to make and ingest the tea in the coming weeks, and once I am comfortable with the Syrian Rue experience, I may move to vaporhuasca.

RhythmSpring, thank for particularly for "The Psychedelic Ceiling." That concept really makes a lot of sense, and while I can feel it, I didn't have a name or definition for it really. My plan now is to continue with minor marijuana use (for basic stress relief and social enjoyment) and try the Syrian Rue tea to see where it takes me. Hopefully I'll be able to alleviate all of my social concerns and move past my wall.

 

[BringsUsTogether]

Hi there,

Sometimes I feel that:

somewhat unconscious anxiety about negative trips > negative trips > somewhat unconscious anxiety about negative trips > negative trips...

Have you considered trying a small dose of nitrous during one of your LSD journeys? I feel like having a "forced" positive experience and then taking a break from psychedelics might be the way to go. If you do, be very careful, as it's easy to slip into addiction with nitrous.

Here is a heartbreaking tale of nitrous addiction:

Nitrous Oxide & LSD - Erowid Exp - 'Life-Changing Problems'

An Experience with Nitrous Oxide & LSD. 'Life-Changing Problems' by TheMerryPrankster

www.erowid.org

Best of luck to you.

 

[3rdI]

sounds to me like your getting exactly what you're meant to get from psychedelics, embrace it, IMO pretty colours and fancy tricks get boring pretty fast, substance is what you want from a good journey.

i wouldnt say stop taking psyches, but i wouldnt take anything else until you have addressed/answered all the questions that are repeatedly brought up, these things need to be addressed in a sober state as thats where you live most of the time and its the place you need to be happy/stable with your mindset, its easy to put a shiny coat on your life when your high, be it DMT, harmalas, nos or mushrooms.

once these questions are sufficiently answered it doesnt matter if they come up as you have answered them. i wouldnt look at any of these questions as insights, i would look at the answers as insight, the questions are the problems that allow insight to be gained. answering the questions is the important part, to me this is what intergration is all about.

if you have to take more drugs to deal with the drugs you are already taking i think your moving into murky waters.

also meditation, exercise, lots of fruit and veg, yadda, yadda, yadda.

good luck:thumb_up:

 

[Metanoia]

All I can say, having moved through this exact sort of conundrum, is that the best you can do is simply accept. Accept that many people really are incentive based animals, much of what seems meaningful isn't, and that's just the way it is. We always want to create some sort of great change, to make things better, to leave the world in a better place than we found it. But that's not always possible.

Might sound cynical but you either stop using mind-altering drugs (especially something so powerful as psychedelics) or you learn to accept the state of the sober world. We comfort ourselves with illusions and put on our rose-colored glasses constantly when we're sober. When in the grips of a deep psychedelic trip, that option often gets torn away from you. And it can last beyond the trip, and can bleed over into other drug experiences (like you said has happened with cannabis for you).

Getting caught in negative thought loops is one thing. Seeing things for what they really are is another. Learn to laugh at the absurdity of this life

 

[Doc Buxin]

^^^^^^This...

I think the best answer is this one above by Metanoia.

Acceptance can be a difficult thing to swallow sometimes, but it also leads to the most peace IME.

 

[Doc Buxin]

I want to know, do you ever think these types of things while tripping? Do you ever feel that psychedelics tear through your life and show you how fake you and most people you know are? How can I get past these social and personal thoughts while tripping to reach higher levels? Does it involve more tripping in nature?

Or is painful social critique just the cost of being a psychedelic pioneer?

I have been through this phenomenon...

Not so much how fake I am (although a lot of how non-existent I am), but just how fake & shallow modern, Western society is.

My answer has always been to meditate more & to do psychedelics in nature by myself (or if not by myself, with a trusted, fellow psychonaut).

Furthermore, I have worked my ass off for decades to put myself in a place where I have a small country farm away from the majority of deluded masses of humans who inhabit this planet. It's a lot of hard work but it keeps me sane & content, which is all I can humbly ask for. Keep in mind that this took heaping amounts of patience & keeping an eye on my goal for 3 decades.

 

[RAM]

i wouldnt say stop taking psyches, but i wouldnt take anything else until you have addressed/answered all the questions that are repeatedly brought up, these things need to be addressed in a sober state as thats where you live most of the time and its the place you need to be happy/stable with your mindset, its easy to put a shiny coat on your life when your high, be it DMT, harmalas, nos or mushrooms.

Thank you 3rdI, I highly value your advice. I work most days to address the questions and topics that bother me the most. Although I have been meditating daily, I have gotten more into sensory deprivation meditation using my Mindfold and huge headphones, and this has helped me a lot.

Psychs do not "put a shiny coat" on my life at all. I have now come to terms with the fact that all of my drug encounters will be negative and will not feel good. Lowering my expectations will make any good experiences, although nonexistent now, more pleasurable and surprising if they do ever return. Negative experiences make me stronger and happier in the long run, at least this is what I tell myself now.

Getting caught in negative thought loops is one thing. Seeing things for what they really are is another. Learn to laugh at the absurdity of this life

It's funny you say this; whenever I used to complain about these sorts of things to my father he would say the same thing, "learn to laugh at it all, look for the humor in things." Sometimes I make fun of our monkey-habits when with close psychedelic-using friends, but other people don't always understand or are in denial about how primal humans act. I have had multiple experiences on mushrooms that allowed me to laugh at our culture and actions; this mindset may prove to be useful now in a sober state.

I'm now moving toward the idea that none of this should be surprising to me. I'm working to recognize how it shouldn't be surprising at all to see the oddities that occur in our world, and this takes some of the pain away.

In short, the solutions appear to involve harmalas, breaks, tripping in nature, acceptance, humor, thoughtfulness, and even more meditation.

 

[3rdI]

Psychs do not "put a shiny coat" on my life at all.

but what about this....

You're advice might be, "Just stop doing psychedelics, at least for a while." I've tried and it's of no avail. The sickest part is that I view all of these social concerns as insights, and when I do not trip for long enough, my ego builds, and I become the very thing I despise. This leads to bouts of anger and depression as well; it's almost as if I burn out my depression while tripping, and then I'm good for about a month. Yet after I trip, the negative social thoughts linger.

this is what i meant by putting a shiny coat on your life, eventually the coat comes off and your back where you started. this happened to me as well so i understand where you're coming from.

I find its easy to be as I think I should be when the after glow is coursing, its after it wears away that the real effort has to be put in. Did you know you were the thing you despise before psyches? or was it psyches that revealed it to you?

i dont think you should resign yourself to having grim journeys from now on, i think that you will be able to sort out the issues and then pass this stage in your adventure, i think if you can find peace with these things you will bring back the psychedelic glory, soulgasms are out there just waiting for you to manifest them:thumb_up: .

I see all that happens in a psychedelic experience as self generated (what the self is i have no idea), beautiful and evil portrayals in hyperspace are all, to me, reflections of myself and when i have had recuring themes i have addressed them in waking life and the themes have gone away. Its pretty hard work to get through some of these things and its meant coming to terms with parts of myself, and others, that i dont like, but in the end it was worth it.

"learn to laugh at it all, look for the humor in things."

sound advice from your dad

I have had multiple experiences on mushrooms that allowed me to laugh at our culture and actions; this mindset may prove to be useful now in a sober state.

this is exactly it, you need to bleed this mindset from psychedelic to sober life.

I'm now moving toward the idea that none of this should be surprising to me. I'm working to recognize how it shouldn't be surprising at all to see the oddities that occur in our world, and this takes some of the pain away.

one day i realised what people mean by the phrase "everything is perfect just the way it is", since that moment i have been very happy.

but other people don't always understand or are in denial about how primal humans act

dose them:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

have a good weekend RAM

 

[RAM]

Once again thanks for the invaluable words.

I thought more about the shiny coat thing, and this is it: it's true that I am angrier and more depressed when I do no trip for long enough, but tripping is itself a harsh experience for me now that reveals brutal truths. It's almost like I feel bad either way, but one is more honest and authentic.

Psychedelics, DMT in particular, are not a magic pill that solves problems. They only open our minds to previously unseen areas and allow us to step outside zones and mindsets that we may not have been comfortable leaving before. I know this and have said it before, but saying and implementing are two very different things.

Enjoy your weekend as well

 

[DmnStr8]

My advice is to take one step to not be incentive based yourself and concentrate on that. Then you are not a hypocrite. You are a solution. You are a light for others. Lead the monkeys. You don't know how far your waves will go. It always starts with the self. We are the world and the world is you. Answer these questions within and the rest will follow. As above so below.

 

[travsha]

The personal ceremonies are my favorite ones usually - I feel like they are the most practical and enhance my life the most afterwards.

I used to have tons of journeys which were about society or the way I acted or others acted or whether I was happy.... That is actually how I learned what my dreams are and how to chase them - and those lessons stopped coming so often once I integrated them and became a less depressed person. Not saying your situation is the same - but just sharing my personal experience. I needed to find good people to surround myself with and for me personally I also had to become very transparent about who I am and what I do (transparent to the level that my family knows everything I do, and wrote a book about my practice with my name and picture on it, and I even took my family to Peru to meet my shaman at my wedding last summer). Others might not need that transparency, but for me personally, secrets eat at my soul and dont feel good....

I realized all the personal lessons were pointing out my fears and desires which then gave me the opportunity to confront those fears and chase those desires.... Healing that took place inside me first but that I then manifested outside of myself in my life.

Its a long process, but it is totally worth it for me.

The other side I think is learning how to let go and not control everything. If you are too in your head and question or criticize everything, then life can get hard.... This is related to chasing your dreams and such because being in your heart requires you to confront and know your heart and let your heart be expressed. A whole process of learning to honor and acknowledge your feelings and intuition, and to let go of the control for a while....

A weird balance of taking control of your life, and at the same time letting go of the need to control... How is that for confusing? Yet, I think balance is important, so really I guess you need both in the right amounts... Takes a lot of time to figure out because each person is different - but if you keep trying I think it will keep getting more and more clear.