• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

How to remove NMT from extractions

Migrated topic.
Dr_Sister

Dr_Sister

Synaptic cleft explorer
Senior Member
Senior member Chemical engineer
With MHRB getting scarce in some parts of the planet it looks as though some nexians will be looking to acacia as possible source. One drawback being NMT impurities.

Sister just came across a paper she would like to share with you (US patent 3131221 see attachment). It has a facile method for removing primary and secondary amines from a mixture containing tertiary amines. When a solution containing a mixture of amines is treated with CO2 a carbamate is formed with both primary and secondary amines that will form a precipitate that can be filtered off (possibly requiring refrigeration).

FYI - DMT is a tertiary amine, NMT is a secondary amine, so the NMT will precipitate as a the carbamate leaving the dmt in solution, which can then be recovered by distilling or evaporating your solvent.

CO2 can be generated by dripping vinegar onto baking soda, there are several ways a CO2 generator could be made in the ghetto using pop bottles and tubing.


P.S. Shulgin (god love him!) used acetic anhydride to do the same thing. CO2 is a lot safer to work with and otc to boot.
 

Attachments

  • US3131221.pdf
    231 KB · Views: 0
Shulgin's chapter about NMT in TIHKAL doesnt help much either...

But considering nmt is present in several other plants including our dear mimosa (though in different ratios), I would guess its not very toxic at least... Maybe even completely inactive? But then we have to consider if it may compete for binding in the receptors when its administered together with DMT, or maybe synergize with it, etc.
 
Is the ghetto you're referring to everywhere that is outside of a chemistry lab? :) The NMT could be converted into DMT by methylation. What would happen if you reacted NMT with Dimethyl Sulfate?

NMT + Dimethyl Sulfate -> ?
 
Glad you are all able to appreciate this proceedure!:d

Seraph said:
Is the ghetto you're referring to everywhere that is outside of a chemistry lab? :)
Click to expand...
or anywhere where lab glass is not available

Seraph said:
The NMT could be converted into DMT by methylation. What would happen if you reacted NMT with Dimethyl Sulfate?
NMT + Dimethyl Sulfate -> ?
Click to expand...

NMT could definitely be methylated to form DMT, however DMS would not be Sisters first choice of methylating agent, its nasty nasty stuff to work with. (Especially in the ghetto, where there are no fume hoods!) There is one method that Sister is aware of that uses otc and the relatively non-toxic chemicals, zinc powder and formaldehyde. Paraformaldehyde is available as an otc anti-mildew product and can be depolymerized to formaldehyde by treating with an aqueous base. Zinc powder can be made with a file and a chunk of zinc from an sacraficial anode. Sister doubts NMT is very soluble in H20, but thinks an alcohol could also be used as the solvent. It is in other zinc catalyzed reductions.

Sister has attached a PDF of the paper, apparently the work up is a little messy, but it works.

Reductive methylation of primary and secondary amines and amino acids by aqueous formaldehyde and zinc
Renato A. da Silva,a Ida´lia H. S. Estevamb and Lothar W. Biebera,*
Abstract—Amines can be methylated when treated with formaldehyde and zinc in aqueous medium. Selective mono- or dimethylation
can be achieved by proper choice of pH, stoichiometry and reaction time. This method can also be applied for amino acids.

There are several other methylation proceedures, but they are beyond the scope of what the rules allow us to discuss here and use reagents that are more difficult to acquire.
 

Attachments

  • Zn_HCHO_methylation.pdf
    87.1 KB · Views: 1
endlessness said:
NMT has a xlogp between that of n-oxide and dmt's... I wonder if it could potentially be separated by a few successive recrystalizations or heptane/naphtha washes?
Click to expand...

or possibly by fractional crystalization, but one would need very good temperature control and lots of patience. Sister would expect the oxide to crystalize first, followed by the DMT then NMT last. Going from the largest molecule to the smallest. But not 100% sure.
 
Dr_Sister said:
Garfield said:
what do you mean by otc?
Click to expand...

OTC means that it is available Over The Counter:wink: or easy to purchase without an account at a chemical distributor
Click to expand...
Muchas Gracias!
Sorry my knowledge about english acronyms is still in the process of growing.:roll: :d
 
nope :\

wiki:
Orally administered NMT appears to produce no psychoactive biologically effects, likely as a result of extensive first-pass metabolism.[citation needed] However, it may become active upon combination with a MAOA inhibitor (MAOI).


shulgin says 50-100 smoked gave fleeting visual for a minute time period. if there are any effects my guess is there is far far too much mao activity. maybe one or several of us should isolate it and vaporize it while on a huge dose of sublingual maoi.

we can look to NET and AMT so similarities shared by primary tryptamines tho i am not aware of what pharmacological effects/characteristics are tied to them(similar to many 5meos sharing a degree of effects.

perhaps the nmt could be used as a route to amt, tho i fear this is prolly parallels the making mdma from meth. just waaay more work than its worth.
 
LandOfOz said:
nope :\

wiki:
Orally administered NMT appears to produce no psychoactive biologically effects, likely as a result of extensive first-pass metabolism.[citation needed] However, it may become active upon combination with a MAOA inhibitor (MAOI).


shulgin says 50-100 smoked gave fleeting visual for a minute time period. if there are any effects my guess is there is far far too much mao activity. maybe one or several of us should isolate it and vaporize it while on a huge dose of sublingual maoi.

we can look to NET and AMT so similarities shared by primary tryptamines tho i am not aware of what pharmacological effects/characteristics are tied to them(similar to many 5meos sharing a degree of effects.

perhaps the nmt could be used as a route to amt, tho i fear this is prolly parallels the making mdma from meth. just waaay more work than its worth.
Click to expand...

You do know that NMT can be turned into DMT, don't you? You could turn NMT into AMT if you really want though.
 
you could turn a turd into dmt too. doesnt mean it is practical.

conversion of nmt to dmt, unless you had bags of nmt, would be a waste of time imho since dmt source is so cheap.
 
Seraph said:
Is the ghetto you're referring to everywhere that is outside of a chemistry lab? :) The NMT could be converted into DMT by methylation. What would happen if you reacted NMT with Dimethyl Sulfate?

NMT + Dimethyl Sulfate -> ?
Click to expand...

Seraph I hope in your dream you do understand exactly how dangerous of a compound DMS is. I also hope that if this dream were to be actualized one would have very nice long gloves, an adequate fume-hood, and a thorough understanding as well as hands on experience with methylating reagents. You might not die, but you very well could get cancer, and you well still could die. Not to mention the risk of exposure to innocent by standards, perhaps the person who finds you, or the fish in the nearby stream.

Would DMS perform another N-Methylation? I am not sure about it, I don't think so, but I'm not very knowledgeable in OChem. Check known similar reaction mechanisms? Either way, Is it really worth the risk, the extra cost of preparing it/purifying it after isolating NMT? Compared to say, ordering more root bark? Last I checked it was 70$ a kg, which if you do the math, is a far more apropriate means to acquire dmt imo...

It's cool to be thinking outside of the box though :).
 
Back
Top Bottom