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How would you create a decent society?
- Thread starter 'Coatl
- Start date
Oh, i wouldn't create a decent society. Just trying to lead a decent life is already quite a challenge.
yes, a decent society can only exist with decent people. By looking at onself it becomes clear that its not an easy task individually, less alone socially.
I dont know how a place with only (or mostly) conscious people would be. It would probably be such a radical transformation in some areas that we have no idea of imagining.
One thing is for sure, it would have to be sustainable.
How would you do it, coatl? im interested
I dont know how a place with only (or mostly) conscious people would be. It would probably be such a radical transformation in some areas that we have no idea of imagining.
One thing is for sure, it would have to be sustainable.
How would you do it, coatl? im interested
Unfortunetly I do not think that an ideal society is possible. Human nature appears to restrict such a reality. However we certainly could have a decent society were the majority of the members could be thought of as efficient. Not everyone has the same desires and thus conflict over things will always be an issue. The media in the US is responsible for the great black and white dividing of the lines and thus this left right crap could be significantly reduced with a proper education however it is likely that progression/change will always find opposition, in some cases this could be a positive thing whereas in others a negative. It certainly keeps society from rapidly changing and in an evolutionary standpoint since this society is here and functioning now it most be doing something right, however this may seem logical from a survivalist standpoint but not if we look to the future and see that our ways are destroying the resources we need to survive on this planet. We are not destroying earth, that is giving our species too much credit, we are only destroying ourselves and taking a lot of life along with us, the earth however will go on, that is definite.
'Coatl
Teotzlcoatl
Please hang me if I ever become a "Jim Jones" type figure. Hang me immediately.
I can't stand those goddamn weak minded cult types, the people I want in my community have to the oppisite of that, so that can maintain a decent society and sting mother fuckers up who try to exert power or control over the community.
We are all eqaul.
This isn't about mumbo-jumbo space ships or what have you... this is about creating a place were the vaule of your community isn't measured in how much money your people have, how big your army is or how much land you control... The vaule of your community is measured by the contentment of your people.
I can't stand those goddamn weak minded cult types, the people I want in my community have to the oppisite of that, so that can maintain a decent society and sting mother fuckers up who try to exert power or control over the community.
We are all eqaul.
This isn't about mumbo-jumbo space ships or what have you... this is about creating a place were the vaule of your community isn't measured in how much money your people have, how big your army is or how much land you control... The vaule of your community is measured by the contentment of your people.
Id firstly abolish any kind of money system because that's how trouble starts in the first place. Instead everyone would live self sufficiently and almost live on a bartering system eg: If someone had cows and was producing milk that family would distribute all the remains from their milk produce to the rest of the community. There would be no government, because everyone can live by their own morals and belief system. If anyone harmed anyone in the community in a serious or unnecessary way the community would ask that person to leave the community because violence and harmful behavior wouldn't be accepted. Natural enthogens would be a very important part of the society and respect for nature and all sentient beings would be paramount. Everything that would be used in the community would be of purely natural origin. Animals and the environment would be very seriously protected. My whole community would be vegetarian because i think it would be unnecessary to kill animals for their meat, intellectually we have grown passed such unnecessary barbaric behavior. Every week the whole community would gather around a huge bonfire to celebrate life, drum and fire dance. Playing rainmakers and didgeridoos and eating around in a circle to reaffirm community bonds Personal spirituality would be practiced in everyday life and all different ideas and ways of life respected and practiced along side each other in complete harmony and tolerance.
This is a dream of a society that i have and i hope one day it will materialize when people want to start a real revolution and completely renounce this way of life that all of us have got so suck in.
Much Peace
Personal spirituality would be practiced in everyday life and all different ideas and ways of life respected and practiced along side each other in complete harmony and tolerance. This is a dream of a society that i have and i hope one day it will materialize when people want to start a real revolution and completely renounce this way of life that all of us have got so suck in.
Much Peace
gigaschatten
Rising Star
The best way to have a decent society is to encourage freedom, individual liberty, freedom to trade and do business with minimal government interference except to enforce laws, and some fair system of voting for your leaders and keeping their power in check.
You cannot force morals or beliefs on people and expect everyone to agree. There is no such thing as "the common good". People who think there is are often sociopathic maniacs (or ignorant masses) who think they need to control everyone and everything.
Its impossible to have a complex society without money. I am sorry to say but everything would become very inefficient and complicated without it. Money is a necessary way to do business and yes doing business is also necessary in a complex society. You cannot barter everything in an efficient manner. Its just not possible. People could not calculate loss or gain of goods without money because all goods have subjective value and it just won't work for a number of rather obvious reasons. The problem with our world now is that people have forgotten what money is and bankers have taken over the means to control money and thus control those who use it (us). If people and governments returned to a sound monetary policy a lot of the environmental and social and economic problems plaguing the developed world would start go away. A truly free market is self regulating.
Socialism, communism, or more government regulations and rules and power is not the answer to our problems. They are false methods of solving problems inherently flawed. Freedom is the solution. It really is. If you and your friends want to go run off and start a commune have fun that can work fine if everyone really shares the same values and beliefs but on a large scale its completely impossible and everytime its attempted someones rights are violated and centralization of power takes place and all the problems in our world today are a result of too much power in too few hands. This centralization of pwer is not a result of the free market or 'capitalism' but a result of our ignorance at the massive banking and money scam taking place all across the world in the form of central and world banks.
You cannot force morals or beliefs on people and expect everyone to agree. There is no such thing as "the common good". People who think there is are often sociopathic maniacs (or ignorant masses) who think they need to control everyone and everything.
Its impossible to have a complex society without money. I am sorry to say but everything would become very inefficient and complicated without it. Money is a necessary way to do business and yes doing business is also necessary in a complex society. You cannot barter everything in an efficient manner. Its just not possible. People could not calculate loss or gain of goods without money because all goods have subjective value and it just won't work for a number of rather obvious reasons. The problem with our world now is that people have forgotten what money is and bankers have taken over the means to control money and thus control those who use it (us). If people and governments returned to a sound monetary policy a lot of the environmental and social and economic problems plaguing the developed world would start go away. A truly free market is self regulating.
Socialism, communism, or more government regulations and rules and power is not the answer to our problems. They are false methods of solving problems inherently flawed. Freedom is the solution. It really is. If you and your friends want to go run off and start a commune have fun that can work fine if everyone really shares the same values and beliefs but on a large scale its completely impossible and everytime its attempted someones rights are violated and centralization of power takes place and all the problems in our world today are a result of too much power in too few hands. This centralization of pwer is not a result of the free market or 'capitalism' but a result of our ignorance at the massive banking and money scam taking place all across the world in the form of central and world banks.
gigaschatten
Rising Star
I have the impression we would at least agree that 1. a society must have some rules and 2. those must guarantee that no one can force his own will on others without their consent. Well, theoretically we have that kind of society in the west already. The problem ist that people silently accept what is done to them by a few powermongers. The problem is not that the system is evil, but the people are lazy.
prey
Rising Star
The main thing I would do is impose strict rules on who could reproduce.
For example, I could make a rule that only people who were 40 or older were allowed to reproduce. 200 years later I would up the age to 50 years, and so on.
One would expect after a few millennia of this the lifespan of humans would increase quite a lot. Therefore the average health of individuals would also increase because unhealthy individuals are less likely to reproduce at a very old age. The purpose of these rules would be to exclude genetic types that are unhealthy and age limiting from the gene pool.
As for morals I would let them decide what was right and wrong and keep the government completely neutral and focused on sustainable infrastructure projects.
For example, I could make a rule that only people who were 40 or older were allowed to reproduce. 200 years later I would up the age to 50 years, and so on.
One would expect after a few millennia of this the lifespan of humans would increase quite a lot. Therefore the average health of individuals would also increase because unhealthy individuals are less likely to reproduce at a very old age. The purpose of these rules would be to exclude genetic types that are unhealthy and age limiting from the gene pool.
As for morals I would let them decide what was right and wrong and keep the government completely neutral and focused on sustainable infrastructure projects.
gigaschatten
Rising Star
prey said:
Well, I hope you'll never be in charge of others.
prey
Rising Star
Am I that out of touch with reality?
I think there is still a place for love and family relationships, but I also think we need to shift our thinking towards logical reasoning and away from instinctual emotions when it comes to reproduction.
A gradually increasing minimum age to reproduce would effectively eliminate from the gene pool those who are not healthy enough to reproduce beyond that age limit. Eventually, over a period of thousands of years, this would lead to an increase in health and a longer lifespan for humans.
I think there is still a place for love and family relationships, but I also think we need to shift our thinking towards logical reasoning and away from instinctual emotions when it comes to reproduction.
A gradually increasing minimum age to reproduce would effectively eliminate from the gene pool those who are not healthy enough to reproduce beyond that age limit. Eventually, over a period of thousands of years, this would lead to an increase in health and a longer lifespan for humans.
Thats insane. No offense but no one anywhere has the right to tell me or anyone how to reproduce! If you think so you are suffering from the same sociopathic control freak behavior as I stated earlier. Again no offense but I think thats a sick twisted thing. Also should add that government sponsered infrastructure projects tend to suck and fail because government are notoriously inefficient at doing such things.
I definatly agree we need some rules. Thats fine and a good thing. Your right that the problem is people are lazy and let other people who were clever and power hungry abuse the system to their own advantages. Now we are caught in their trap.
I am worried that in this current economic crisis and terrorist nonsense people are going to shift away from freedom and more towards government control over every aspect of their lives. Its already happening and it is NOT the answer!
prey
Rising Star
burnt said:
I respectfully disagree for one simple reason. Nobody chooses to be born, or what traits they inherit. It is not fair to force your own genetics into a host of cells for emotional instinctual reasons.
I am fine with doing whatever you like with your own life, that is your choice. To decide to produce another human being is the most serious decision a person can make, by far. Yet in our society kids just happen, by accident or through a fit of passion, or love between two people.
I feel that the decision to produce another life should be made in the best interest of our race as a whole, since we all draw from the same gene pool and are stuck on the same planet. Perhaps my idea wouldn't work, but the concept behind it I think is a noble and altruistic one... to improve the genetic material of humans for better health and a longer more enjoyable life.
The idea that you have a right to reproduce is very selfish, in my opinion.
I personaly like our society. I find it poses interesting challenges. We are all enabled to live a meaningfull live but we also have the choice to totally screw it. i don't think there has ever been a civilization before that was as humane as ours. That so many people choose to whipe their asses with all that's given to them is their responsabillity. It is a waste, but mainly a waste of their lives.
It might be painfull to see, but this is only for those who care. You care about others because you are a caring and loving being. This means that you already live a meaningfull live. Well, meaningfull lives are not always entirely without pain. I find it a challenge dealing with this and sometimes a severe challenge even. But all i can do is surrender to the love and care i feel for this world. This brings challenges and gives meaning at the same time. So it's a struggle, but a meaningfull strugle.
It might be painfull to see, but this is only for those who care. You care about others because you are a caring and loving being. This means that you already live a meaningfull live. Well, meaningfull lives are not always entirely without pain. I find it a challenge dealing with this and sometimes a severe challenge even. But all i can do is surrender to the love and care i feel for this world. This brings challenges and gives meaning at the same time. So it's a struggle, but a meaningfull strugle.
prey
Rising Star
I totally understand your position, polytrip, and I agree with what you said.
What bothers me is that the equality and freedom we enjoy is not really the result of a new way of thinking but instead is the result of abundant resources and advanced technology, in my opinion at least.
This is not a problem so long as we maintain our vast wealth... Unfortunately part of the way we do that is by exploiting not so fortunate countries such as the DRC where coltan ore is mined to produce most of the world's supply of tantalum. This tantalum is indispensable in the production of cellphones and it's mining is responsible for the majority of the strife in the Congo.
That is just one example where injustice is occurring so that we can maintain a peaceful society here.
In places where resources are unevenly distributed or very scarce, you will find a very different kind of society.
So while I agree that we live in a very humane society, internally at least, our freedom and peace is the result of our advanced technology and abundant resources and taking advantage of others. This means that if our position in the world were to change we could become just as dysfunctional as Zimbabwe or Haiti.
In the same way, the DRC could become a free and open society like our own if it just had abundant resources, wealth and advanced technology.
I think we would be in a better position if we changed the way we think so that even if we didn't have such an abundance of wealth and advanced technology we would still act humanely and be able to maintain a free and peaceful society.
What bothers me is that the equality and freedom we enjoy is not really the result of a new way of thinking but instead is the result of abundant resources and advanced technology, in my opinion at least.
This is not a problem so long as we maintain our vast wealth... Unfortunately part of the way we do that is by exploiting not so fortunate countries such as the DRC where coltan ore is mined to produce most of the world's supply of tantalum. This tantalum is indispensable in the production of cellphones and it's mining is responsible for the majority of the strife in the Congo.
That is just one example where injustice is occurring so that we can maintain a peaceful society here.
In places where resources are unevenly distributed or very scarce, you will find a very different kind of society.
So while I agree that we live in a very humane society, internally at least, our freedom and peace is the result of our advanced technology and abundant resources and taking advantage of others. This means that if our position in the world were to change we could become just as dysfunctional as Zimbabwe or Haiti.
In the same way, the DRC could become a free and open society like our own if it just had abundant resources, wealth and advanced technology.
I think we would be in a better position if we changed the way we think so that even if we didn't have such an abundance of wealth and advanced technology we would still act humanely and be able to maintain a free and peaceful society.