ava69
Rising Star
Update 6.6.2022:
Go to page 22 for full instructions with many pics:
"Journal: 50 Sublingual HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca journeys over a years time" is the 22 page topic in the Pharmahuasca section with many pics.
hxxps://mycotopia.net/topic/111790-journal-50-sublingual-hpbcd-dmt-ayahuasca-journeys-over-a-years-time/
or you can go to this link, it has all the pics for welcome guests.
:!: Important! This sublingual Ayahuasca will only work if you include 30mg HPBCD complexed harmine freebase along with your 60 to 150mg HPBCD DMT...again go to page 22 of this thread for full instructions. The 30mg harmine is needed TO ACTIVATE the DMT, otherwise this will not work.
And don't forget to take from 150mg to 300mg of PURE THH ORALLY around 45 minutes before you apply the sublingual HPBCD complexed harmine/dmt Ayahuasca under your tongue, hold for 15 minutes.
You can use orange or yellow DMT, it does not matter, it does not have to be white DMT. Be weary of that cheap China made THH from *iftmode...6 people here have already said when a bit of it is dabbed with a cue tip which has been pre wet in vinegar, then smeared on a paper plate under blacklight, that the smear does not glow blue (like THH is supposed to) but glows green, indicating the china made THH is contaminated with harmaline, in other words the synthesis was not complete....buy only from quality sources or make your own....this is covered on post #12 of linked thread above, go back to page 1 and read post #12, very important.
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HPBCD complexed DMT made very bioavailable sublingually under tongue, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca, 30 second formed alternative to fumarate salt.
Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration
Part 2: receptorome chart & explanation
Part 3: Tetrahydroharmine (THH) effects
Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
Part 5: chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD prohormones & bloodwork studies
part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual" or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal
part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.
part 9: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman
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Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration
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I found a thread here from 2012 entitled "Complexing DMT freebase for sublingual administration" After reading all 3 pages, I learned that no user in the thread attempted HPBCD complex to DMT, so I did an experiment to find out if it works.
I used a 7:1 gram weight ratio of HPBCD (hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin, molar weight between 1200 to 1500 g/mol) on auction sites and elsewhere, to DMT (molar weight = 188g/mol) in order to keep the molar ratio of cyclodextrin to host drug at a 1:1 molar ratio. What I did was place for example 30mg freebase dmt on a spoon, add 210mg of HPBCD powder on top the DMT, add many drops of water from a pipette, mix it all together for 30 seconds using a toothpick, then draw up liquid with pipette, place drops under tongue and hold for 10 minutes or so...I prefer 15 minutes. The DMT will dissolve into the bloodstream.
Strong effects at 5 minutes after the end of the 15 minute HPBCD DMT sublingual drug delivery under tongue: tryptamine rush/buzz & greatly elevated heart rate & pulse, dilated pupils...neon colorful visuals/visions...peak at 30 to 45 minutes, duration 60 to 90 minutes. 250mg tetrahydroharmine taken orally 3 hours earlier, transcendent combination, music sounded heavenly, the spiritual power of music.
I would imagine this might allow those who normally get nausea from oral preps to avoid the nausea. There is no burn under tongue, taste yes. I used this 3 times in one night over the course of several hours with THH, and my tongue was just fine, no burn or scarring. Felt just fine next day too. I experienced profound beauty and had visuals, very transcendent. Zero nausea.
Narang and Sharma mention in their 2010 sublingual paper that under the tongue pharmaceuticals can be 3 to 10 times more bioavailable than oral. HPBCD makes the non-water soluble DMT water soluble. It traps and delivers small molecules such as DMT extremely effectively across the mucosa membrane under the tongue, with it's high permeability (only 100 to 200 micrometers thick) and rich blood supply--shuttling the DMT directly to bloodstream.
Most studies recommend a 1:1 equimolar ratio of HPBCD to host drug for complexing.
This was using DMT cleaned up using a sodium carbonate wash. PKA of DMT is 8.75 or so, so please do not use a sodium bicarbonate wash -- it will eat up most of your DMT, as ph of bicarb is not high enough, it needs to be 1 to 2 points higher than PKA of DMT, at 11 or 11.5 or so is perfect, where 100% sodium carbonate PH is at, found in pool isle of home box store.
HPBCD is a new technology that allows freebase nonpolar drugs like DMT to be trapped by the cyclodextrin inner cavity which is composed of an inner "non-polar trap", and "outer polar cavity or cone" which allows the normally water insoluble DMT to be made 100% water soluble.
HPBCD is composed from a sugar molecule, it has been used to make scores of other non-water soluble drugs 100% water soluble and reach peak activity as measurements of the drug in the bloodstream indicated that all of the freebase drug was absorbed effectively.
Other examples of non water soluble freebase non-polar drugs complexed with HPBCD made water soluble: hormones, pregnisolone, etc.
Apparently, this also makes the DMT absorb very well if taken orally as well, possibly improving even the oral bio-availability substantially when taken with RIMA's to activate it, etc.
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THH or tetrahydroharmine can be taken orally (100, 150 to 200mg), my favorite in combo, while the DMT can be used sublingually, allowing the best of both worlds. No nausea felt. Have tried this in dreams several times in one night, and it works extremely well, tryptamine rush felt around 5 or more minutes after sublingual application, peak at 30 to 45 minutes, like an extended sub-breakthrough, excellent for long lasting transcendental contemplation and work. Best to limit to once a week or so, so no tolerance.
professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010):
Mind at Large - Wikipedia
In TIHKAL, 300mg of tetrahydroharmine (THH) is equated by one psychonaut to the closed eye visionary (CEV) power of 100mg harmaline, but without all the nausea and dizziness. I totally agree. It glows blue under blacklight, like LSD or psilocin & has a metallic-like lingering taste with a 10.5 hour half-life.
Don't forget that this should improve the ORAL BIOAVAILABILITY of dmt when combined with a RIMA as well -- this technology has been used to potentiate these freebase drugs ORALLY as well -- this could potentially mean an Ayahuasca experience that is strong in potency.
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"Sublingual mucosa as a route for systemic drug delivery" by Narang & Sharma 2010:
As you can see from this sublingual viagra study, even 50 to 100mg doses can be administered under the tongue, the authors noting that less of the drug was required, and that it began working in only one half the normal time of an oral dose:
"The start of pharmacological activity after sublingual administration of sildenafil citrate in 30 patients affected by erectile dysfunction." by Siati & Franzolin 2003:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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Tetrahydroharmine on it's own will also yield the same type visions as harmaline, it just takes more of it. For example, around 300mg of THH will yield the same visions as about 100mg harmaline...even if the THH dose is split in two over several hours, the visions will still be apparent some time after the 2nd dose takes effect, the doses are additive.
THH in the caapi also seems to strongly activate the right hand hemisphere of the brain-- the side that performs tasks that have do with creativity and the arts, feelings, visualizations, imagination, holistic thinking & intuition, empathy, spirituality & connectedness. Researchers found that the right side of the brain lit up in brain scans of people who took LSD, mescaline, or mushrooms. This includes tetrahydroharmine. The world is largely moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development.
Quote from TIHKAL by Dr. Shulgin "More studies on tetrahydroharmine are absolutely imperative."
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Part 2: receptorome chart & explanation
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This is why I suggest taking the DMT with tetrahydroharmine (as found in true Ayahuasca):
Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
journals.plos.org
hxxp://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0009019
Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max or "off the charts", 0.00=min
5-ht1a inhibition by entheogens (in green above) theoretically cause this filter system to be lifted, and the infinite mind to manifest in combination with oral dmt with the tetrahydroharmine providing the 5-ht1a inhibition & additional adrenal system agonization (A2A thru A2C), just as bufotenine in snuff's provide the 5-ht1a inhibition combined with the dmt in the snuff's, resulting in a 3 hour experience ie both examples of Teamwork on how these entheogens are used traditionally in the Amazon.
Thomas S. Ray's study shows a value of 3.57 at SERT for Ibogaine (4.00 is max). Ibogaine has been shown to inhibit serotonin transporter (SERT) noncompetitively, in contrast to all other known inhibitors, which are competitive with substrate. Ibogaine inhibits both serotonin and dopamine reuptake transporters, it is an SDRI or serotonin & dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Tetrahydroharmine is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it is an SRI found in caapi. In other words, both are strong serotonin reuptake inhibitors which inhibit over 80% of brain 5-ht at 5-ht1a.
In contrast, as an example, Cocaethylene (coca leaf tea bags soaked in wine, the orally active & potent ingredient formed in the liver from cocaine + ethanol in the 1860's "Vin Mariani" wine popular with both Popes, Thomas Edison and scores of other famous people) increases the levels of serotonergic, noradrenergic, and dopaminergic neurotransmission in the brain by inhibiting the action of the serotonin transporter, norepinephrine transporter, and dopamine transporter. These pharmacological properties make cocaethylene a serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor [SNDRI; also known as a "triple reuptake inhibitor"].
Cocaethylene has a higher affinity for the dopamine transporter than does cocaine, but has a lower affinity for the serotonin and norepinephrine transporters. In McCance-Katz et alia's 1993 study cocaethylene "produced greater subjective ratings of 'High' in comparison with administration of cocaine or alcohol alone."
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Part 3: Tetrahydroharmine effects
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The Ayahuasca closed eye visions using 100, 150 to 200mg tetrahydroharmine or THH and HPBCD complexed DMT (30mg on up) together surpass in magnificence anything I have ever seen in reality or in works of art.
With open eyes, all spiritual things such as nature, art, female form, beauty, joy, take on significant meaning with infinite beauty, just like with cactus or LSD. Extraordinary beauty is manifested with open eyes and with the visions one sees with closed eyes. Impossible neon-like colors are seen that don't exist on this Earth.
The existence of a higher spiritual plane is recognized to which insight can and must be gained, yet it does not reject the mundane reality as inferior or empty. This joyous embracement of the world of form leads to words like infinite pleasure, beauty and joy. This loving reappraisal of the worldly forms leads the way to higher divine planes.
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Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
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A little off topic, but I think tetrahydroharmine is a pretty special compound. I've used 250mg of it to potentiate cactus to very strong levels, it makes a 12" medium san pedro cactus tea which may contain around 250mg mescaline feel like an X-large 12" thick san pedro cactus containing around 400mg mescaline. It makes a 12" thick bridgesii cactus feel closer to a tea made with a 12" bridgesii cactus along with an extra 6" piece.
In the data I've seen for THH, it strongly blocks serotonin just like cactus, but also agonizes the adrenal A2A thru A2C receptors (the receptors associated with aesthetics & beauty), just like mescaline has been shown to do receptorome wise, explaining perhaps why they "overlap" so well. THH being able to make mescaline in cactus feel much stronger than it really is. Anyone who has ever taken cactus or high dose THH knows the appreciation for beauty experienced is "over the top".
But you have to stagger the THH from the cactus by taking the tetrahydroharmine around an hour after the cactus is taken, that way any minor maoi's or rima's in the cactus won't interact with the SRI which is THH, which can result in a faster heartbeat for a few hours which has happened to me before...so long as you take it later, it potentiates the cactus quite incredibly...it feels like I've taken 400mg of mescaline containing cactus tea when it's really only 250mg mescaline containing cactus, and they both lasts around 6 hours with super strong activity, so they wind down at around the same time. I have around 7 months experience combining the two, giving myself around 2 weeks apart from journeys.
It works so well, I won't take cactus any other way from now on. I get much more mileage from cactus this way. Visuals and visions are insane, music is so good sounding, you would think you were an alien experiencing sound and music for the very first time, every instrument stands out on it's own, like hearing a track for the very first time. It's a game changer.
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Part 5: chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD prohormones & bloodwork studies
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A litte bit more on sublingual & nasal HPBCD complexed pharmaceuticals:
Several years ago, before "prohormones" were banned, there was a company called "Ergopharm" ran by chemist Patrick Arnold that made HPBCD complexed solutions of prohormones in a nasal spray & in a HPBCD complexed powder that was administered under tongue.
In 2001 Arnold's company introduced the prohormone 4-Androstenediol, under the marketing name 4-AD. 4-AD is a prohormone that is easily converted by the body into testosterone, and it sold well. He is the chemist who created hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed diols such as Cyclo-Diol(TM) and Cyclo-Nordiol(TM).
I bought and used the nasal spray and it was very effective, had my testosterone level checked with a blood test at the local labcore one hour after administering the spray and it was 3,500 ng/dl ! when my normal level was 600ng/dl. Highest measured normal levels in men are around 1200 ng/dl. The blood test cost me $70.00. It had strong mental effects as well. The spray would cause the 4-ad to enter the bloodstream nasally, and convert to testosterone via enzyme activity.
Patrick Arnold also made a sublingual powder of HPBCD complexed 1-AD that could be grabbed from the bottle with a pre-measured scooper, and the powder held under tongue for around 10 minutes or so, sold just as well as the nasal spray, I tried the sublingual product he sold, and that again was effective.
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Part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal
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With Insufflation, sublingual or rectal, DMT is not broken down by monoamine oxidase.
See above paper from Narang et al, Intl J Pharm Sci, Vol 3, Suupl 2, 2011, 18-22:
"With sublingual or "under the tongue", the mucosea thickness is only 100-200, high permeability with rich blood supply, much better than buccal or gingival & palatal, 200, 250, 500 micrometer respectively, shuttling the drug directly to bloodstream." The DMT is not broken down via monamine oxidase whatsoever this way. It avoids the liver and first pass metabolism. The drug is rapidly absorbed via the rich blood supply vessels under the tongue rather than being broken down in the digestive track via the enzyme monamine oxidase. According to paper: "Sublingually administered drugs reach directly in to the blood stream through the ventral surface of the tongue and floor of the mouth. The drug solutes are rapidly absorbed into the reticulated vein which lies underneath the oral mucosa, and transported through the facial veins, internal jugular vein, and braciocephalic vein and then drained in to systemic circulation."
According to paper, "the absorption of drugs through the sublingual route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route and is surpassed by hypodermic injection. Peak blood levels of most products administered sublingually are achieved within 10 to 15 minutes, which is generally much faster than when those same drugs are ingested orally." This has been my experience as well, after 10 minutes of sublingual under tongue application, 5 minutes after the 10 minute sublingual absorption, the DMT rush is felt, followed by 60 to 90 minutes of entheogenic activity. According to paper, "sublingual absorption of drugs is efficient. The percent of each dose absorbed is generally higher than that achieved by means of oral ingestion."
Smoked: If DMT is smoked, the maximal effects last for a short period of time (5 to 30 minutes, dose-dependent). The onset after inhalation is very fast (less than 45 seconds) and maximal effects are reached within about a minute.
Insufflation & Sublingual absorption via Oral Mucosa (under tongue): When DMT is insufflated (snorted through the nostrils) or absorbed sublingually the duration is markedly increased.
Injection: Injected DMT produces an experience similar to inhalation in duration, intensity, and characteristics.
Oral ingestion: DMT, which is broken down by the digestive enzyme monoamine oxidase, is practically inactive if taken orally, unless combined with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI).
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Keep in mind that only a portion or "tail end" of the host molecule is needed to attach or fit into the cyclodextrin cone, and that's all that is needed to be "trapped". I attached a picture of this below. The cyclodextrins have toroidal shapes, with the larger and the smaller openings of the toroid exposing to the solvent secondary and primary hydroxyl groups respectively.
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Part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
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FYI: The THH is an SRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor with significant adrenal activity at A2A thru A2C receptors, similar to mescaline in that regard), it has super weak MAOI activity (see Wikipedia on tetrahydroharmine).
I looked up the data comparing RIMA activity of THH to harmine from a lab supplier who gave the data, and they referenced THH as only having around 1/100th the RIMA strength of harmine, practically non-existent strength as a RIMA. That would mean it would take 20,000mg of THH to equal 200mg of harmine in RIMA strength. Harmine & harmaline however have significant RIMA/MAOI activity.
P.S. I have not actually tried the sublingual DMT by itself, I always prefer it with THH taken orally about 1/2 hour before applying the sublingual HPBCD DMT under my tongue. THH will not activate the DMT at all, but the combo of the two (oral THH + sublingual complexed DMT) is my absolute favorite after trying this several times.
How to best describe THH or tetrahydroharmine:
THH alone (200 to 300mg) with open eyes = everything is brighter and extremely colorful, beauty enhancement is over the top...neon-diamondlike is my best description, like looking down thru several meters of clear blue ocean water on a bright sunny day, just like professor8 describes it. A study done once on the UDV found that brews with high levels of tetrahydroharmine were preferred over all other brews, they found the "dmt was not the main attraction" but actually brews high in THH, fascinating study.
With 250mg to 300mg THH, closed eye dream-like Ayahuasca visions actually form with closed eyes that begin with colored sparkles and geometric dots and ziggly lines in orange, green, and blue that dart around and then progress to the monochrome visions for 1.5 to 2 hours, These visions are WAY beyond 4k, and highly detailed. The DMT seems to add color and brightness to the visions. The DMT also of course adds strong psychedelic alterations & activity to the journey and enhances the quality of music in combo with THH, music sounds incredible as mentioned before for several hours, especially if you keep taking the sublingual DMT around once an hour for the next 3 hours.
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Years ago, I took DMT freebase (70 to 90mg) with harmine and THH pharmahuasca at least a dozen times, and found it mild at best (on a Shulgin scale of 1 to 5, they were all +3 experiences). I even tried to dissolve it into coca cola and citric acid in hot water to make it absorb better as the salt, but it only slightly increased the strength.
The sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT tried the other day was all encompassing and strong at only 30mg, very impressed, I can only imagine where stronger doses will carry this psychonaut.
After that I switched to taking 30 to 35 grams of Hawaiian psychotria boiled down to a couple oz, then added the harmine + thh to the 2oz of hot pychotria tea....well that blew my mind CONSISTENTLY for many years, as I continued to use it over 65 times! Most of the experiences were +4 to +5, very strong indeed, much stronger than the freebase used dmt.
This agrees with what I read from clearlight:
However, at this point, I have noticed that ALL the dried Hawaiian psychotria is extinct, and is no longer available. So I am looking forward in dreams to oral HPBCD complexed DMT at around 60mg on up, and hoping this will do the trick, I'm sure it will after having experienced what I really love with the 30mg sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT.
I have read HPBCD complexing these non-water soluble freebase drugs to make them orally 100% water soluble should make it absorb very effectively in the body, so I do believe it will be possible to once again achieve very strong journeys, similar to the ones I used to have using strong water soluble psychotria leaf.
I often found the oral DMT too short as it would wind down after 90 minutes of taking the pharmahuasca, and I am very glad I found this new complexing method so that I can take a "sublingual dose" if I choose at 90 minutes, to extend the journey at least another 90 minutes, to get a full 3 hours of strong activity out of it, that is my goal, and I feel I am one step closer after having experienced the 30mg HPBCD complexed DMT experiment that was successful.
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1) This could also be used to make HPBCD complexed DMT drops which can be added to a hot water tea that already has (around 180 to 220mg) harmine and (150 to 250mg) tetrahydroharmine dissolved in it (using added crushed vitamin C or similar to dissolve) for a SUPER POTENT ORAL pharmahuasca exeperience. Mix it all together and take at the exact same time, just as the Shaman's do. This is how I used to take the Ayahuasca over 65 times I made using same ingredients mixed into 2oz of hot psychotria leaf tea filtered and boiled down to 2oz.
2) Don't forget the importance of tetrahydroharmine or THH, which is 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi made Ayahuasca...you will want to experience real TRUE Ayahuasca, which is a brew high in it (from 150 to 250mg, 250 to 300mg for intense visions):
My last time taking 300mg of THH alone, I saw the interior decorations of palaces, the checkered floors, the beautiful windows and furniture, the winding stair cases, I was blown away, I've seen sacred temples for religious worship, beautiful animals and super fine women, birds of all kinds. I even saw a world war two fighter plane in the same session, it looked like the famous supermarine spitfire in full detail. Caapi tells a story when you drink it with eyes closed, she teaches you things, the most beautiful "realistic visions" that no other entheogen comes close to showing you, these realistic visions go on for long periods.
THH with open eyes: everything is brighter and extremely colorful, beauty enhancement is over the top...neon-diamondlike is my best description, like looking down thru several meters of clear blue ocean water on a bright sunny day.
All of the closed eye visions for me begin with colored sparkles and geometric dots and ziggly lines in orange, green, and blue that dart around and then progress to the monochrome visions for 1.5 to 2 hours. These visions are WAY beyond 4k, and highly detailed. The DMT adds brightness and color to the visions, for example, animals seen will have colored patterning. It also adds strong psychedelic alterations to the journey. Music will sound very alien & incredibly good.
In one past journey, saw three beautiful naked woman dancers twirling in front of stone pillars that rotated slowly. Jungle scenes lit up by the moonlight, full of snakes and palm trees by the beach and lots of people I had known in my life in floating bubbles that were to the left and right of the scene, drifting up into the sky. Elephants from India embellished with vibrantly colored jhools (saddle cloth) and heavy jewellery and sparkling anklets. Detached female faces of breath-taking beauty with freckles. Waterfalls in the middle of the jungle.
With another session, saw barely dressed women wearing futuristic clothing and bikinis of some sort, dazzling in it's design. A spinning vortex made of blue color with closed eyes that opened up in front of me that looked like a wormhole of some sort, I travelled inside of it, and was dropped off on an island in the pacific with wooden Tikis all around the perimeter of a small culture. I saw a chalkboard full of mathematical equations and scientific discoveries drawn out. I flew like a bird for nearly a minute over what looked like Los Angeles, as I could see the homes with swimming pools and parks below me.
I've seen pyramids adorned with gold sheen, architecture of the past and future, Egyptian scenery, vast landscapes, medieval scenery, it goes on and on. Everything is brand new as if newly created. Very similar to the Ayahuasca visions encountered by Benny Shanon in "Antipodes of the Mind".
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Part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.
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6,000 views:
New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.
13,000 views:
Positronic Ayahuasca brewing
12,000 views:
Receptorome study: how traditional Ayahuasca & snuffs differ from dmt
For a visual high dose claviceps paspali (same fresh alkaloid profile as the fresh Mesoamerican Aztec/Mayan morning glory) ergot wine trip report prepared by LSD chemist Todd Skinner, reported in the literature: read Krystle Cole's 3 page report on page 2 post #32 of morning glory link above.
She saw "constantly rotating holographic Sanskrit or Arabic & Zodiac symbols, floating in a circle around Todd's head."
Go to page 22 for full instructions with many pics:
"Journal: 50 Sublingual HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca journeys over a years time" is the 22 page topic in the Pharmahuasca section with many pics.
hxxps://mycotopia.net/topic/111790-journal-50-sublingual-hpbcd-dmt-ayahuasca-journeys-over-a-years-time/
or you can go to this link, it has all the pics for welcome guests.
:!: Important! This sublingual Ayahuasca will only work if you include 30mg HPBCD complexed harmine freebase along with your 60 to 150mg HPBCD DMT...again go to page 22 of this thread for full instructions. The 30mg harmine is needed TO ACTIVATE the DMT, otherwise this will not work.
And don't forget to take from 150mg to 300mg of PURE THH ORALLY around 45 minutes before you apply the sublingual HPBCD complexed harmine/dmt Ayahuasca under your tongue, hold for 15 minutes.
You can use orange or yellow DMT, it does not matter, it does not have to be white DMT. Be weary of that cheap China made THH from *iftmode...6 people here have already said when a bit of it is dabbed with a cue tip which has been pre wet in vinegar, then smeared on a paper plate under blacklight, that the smear does not glow blue (like THH is supposed to) but glows green, indicating the china made THH is contaminated with harmaline, in other words the synthesis was not complete....buy only from quality sources or make your own....this is covered on post #12 of linked thread above, go back to page 1 and read post #12, very important.
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HPBCD complexed DMT made very bioavailable sublingually under tongue, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca, 30 second formed alternative to fumarate salt.
Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration
Part 2: receptorome chart & explanation
Part 3: Tetrahydroharmine (THH) effects
Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
Part 5: chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD prohormones & bloodwork studies
part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual" or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal
part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.
part 9: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman
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Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration
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I found a thread here from 2012 entitled "Complexing DMT freebase for sublingual administration" After reading all 3 pages, I learned that no user in the thread attempted HPBCD complex to DMT, so I did an experiment to find out if it works.
I used a 7:1 gram weight ratio of HPBCD (hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin, molar weight between 1200 to 1500 g/mol) on auction sites and elsewhere, to DMT (molar weight = 188g/mol) in order to keep the molar ratio of cyclodextrin to host drug at a 1:1 molar ratio. What I did was place for example 30mg freebase dmt on a spoon, add 210mg of HPBCD powder on top the DMT, add many drops of water from a pipette, mix it all together for 30 seconds using a toothpick, then draw up liquid with pipette, place drops under tongue and hold for 10 minutes or so...I prefer 15 minutes. The DMT will dissolve into the bloodstream.
Strong effects at 5 minutes after the end of the 15 minute HPBCD DMT sublingual drug delivery under tongue: tryptamine rush/buzz & greatly elevated heart rate & pulse, dilated pupils...neon colorful visuals/visions...peak at 30 to 45 minutes, duration 60 to 90 minutes. 250mg tetrahydroharmine taken orally 3 hours earlier, transcendent combination, music sounded heavenly, the spiritual power of music.
I would imagine this might allow those who normally get nausea from oral preps to avoid the nausea. There is no burn under tongue, taste yes. I used this 3 times in one night over the course of several hours with THH, and my tongue was just fine, no burn or scarring. Felt just fine next day too. I experienced profound beauty and had visuals, very transcendent. Zero nausea.
Narang and Sharma mention in their 2010 sublingual paper that under the tongue pharmaceuticals can be 3 to 10 times more bioavailable than oral. HPBCD makes the non-water soluble DMT water soluble. It traps and delivers small molecules such as DMT extremely effectively across the mucosa membrane under the tongue, with it's high permeability (only 100 to 200 micrometers thick) and rich blood supply--shuttling the DMT directly to bloodstream.
Most studies recommend a 1:1 equimolar ratio of HPBCD to host drug for complexing.
This was using DMT cleaned up using a sodium carbonate wash. PKA of DMT is 8.75 or so, so please do not use a sodium bicarbonate wash -- it will eat up most of your DMT, as ph of bicarb is not high enough, it needs to be 1 to 2 points higher than PKA of DMT, at 11 or 11.5 or so is perfect, where 100% sodium carbonate PH is at, found in pool isle of home box store.
HPBCD is a new technology that allows freebase nonpolar drugs like DMT to be trapped by the cyclodextrin inner cavity which is composed of an inner "non-polar trap", and "outer polar cavity or cone" which allows the normally water insoluble DMT to be made 100% water soluble.
HPBCD is composed from a sugar molecule, it has been used to make scores of other non-water soluble drugs 100% water soluble and reach peak activity as measurements of the drug in the bloodstream indicated that all of the freebase drug was absorbed effectively.
Other examples of non water soluble freebase non-polar drugs complexed with HPBCD made water soluble: hormones, pregnisolone, etc.
Apparently, this also makes the DMT absorb very well if taken orally as well, possibly improving even the oral bio-availability substantially when taken with RIMA's to activate it, etc.
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THH or tetrahydroharmine can be taken orally (100, 150 to 200mg), my favorite in combo, while the DMT can be used sublingually, allowing the best of both worlds. No nausea felt. Have tried this in dreams several times in one night, and it works extremely well, tryptamine rush felt around 5 or more minutes after sublingual application, peak at 30 to 45 minutes, like an extended sub-breakthrough, excellent for long lasting transcendental contemplation and work. Best to limit to once a week or so, so no tolerance.
professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010):
I agree with his statement. Should add that music sounds quite incredible on a combo of 150mg or more of THH + DMT as tetrahydroharmine imho breaks down the filters or barriers in the mind, so that "mind at large" can be let loose, very similar to listening to music on cactus.
Mind at Large - Wikipedia
In TIHKAL, 300mg of tetrahydroharmine (THH) is equated by one psychonaut to the closed eye visionary (CEV) power of 100mg harmaline, but without all the nausea and dizziness. I totally agree. It glows blue under blacklight, like LSD or psilocin & has a metallic-like lingering taste with a 10.5 hour half-life.
Don't forget that this should improve the ORAL BIOAVAILABILITY of dmt when combined with a RIMA as well -- this technology has been used to potentiate these freebase drugs ORALLY as well -- this could potentially mean an Ayahuasca experience that is strong in potency.
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"Sublingual mucosa as a route for systemic drug delivery" by Narang & Sharma 2010:
As you can see from this sublingual viagra study, even 50 to 100mg doses can be administered under the tongue, the authors noting that less of the drug was required, and that it began working in only one half the normal time of an oral dose:
"The start of pharmacological activity after sublingual administration of sildenafil citrate in 30 patients affected by erectile dysfunction." by Siati & Franzolin 2003:
The start of pharmacological activity after sublingual administration of sildenafil citrate in 30 patients affected by erectile dysfunction - PubMed
Even though ours is a limited study, our clinical data points out that the sublingual administration of Sildenafil is useful because of the rapid onset unrelated to meals. All the patients were reported to appreciate this method of administration, particularly in the case of unplanned sexual...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Tetrahydroharmine on it's own will also yield the same type visions as harmaline, it just takes more of it. For example, around 300mg of THH will yield the same visions as about 100mg harmaline...even if the THH dose is split in two over several hours, the visions will still be apparent some time after the 2nd dose takes effect, the doses are additive.
THH in the caapi also seems to strongly activate the right hand hemisphere of the brain-- the side that performs tasks that have do with creativity and the arts, feelings, visualizations, imagination, holistic thinking & intuition, empathy, spirituality & connectedness. Researchers found that the right side of the brain lit up in brain scans of people who took LSD, mescaline, or mushrooms. This includes tetrahydroharmine. The world is largely moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development.
Quote from TIHKAL by Dr. Shulgin "More studies on tetrahydroharmine are absolutely imperative."
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Part 2: receptorome chart & explanation
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This is why I suggest taking the DMT with tetrahydroharmine (as found in true Ayahuasca):
Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome
We currently understand the mental effects of psychedelics to be caused by agonism or partial agonism of 5-HT2A (and possibly 5-HT2C) receptors, and we understand that psychedelic drugs, especially phenylalkylamines, are fairly selective for these two receptors. This manuscript is a reference...
Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max or "off the charts", 0.00=min
2011 Thomas S. Ray study: Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max, 0.00=min
Dr. Nichols (Heffter.org LSD paper):
As we go thru day to day life, the 5-ht1a brain serotonin filters (gates, or day to day survival filters as I like to call them) which make up over 80% of brain 5-ht are in place so that we will not be overwhelmed by the perception of the way things would appear to an un-filtered mind, or "Mind at Large" as Aldous Huxley describes it in "Doors of Perception" as "infinite or eternal". He also referred to the visions as coming from "the other world" in his book "Moksha". I prefer to think of it in similar terms as well "the spirit world" or "the other world".
5-ht1a inhibition by entheogens (in green above) theoretically cause this filter system to be lifted, and the infinite mind to manifest in combination with oral dmt with the tetrahydroharmine providing the 5-ht1a inhibition & additional adrenal system agonization (A2A thru A2C), just as bufotenine in snuff's provide the 5-ht1a inhibition combined with the dmt in the snuff's, resulting in a 3 hour experience ie both examples of Teamwork on how these entheogens are used traditionally in the Amazon.
Thomas S. Ray's study shows a value of 3.57 at SERT for Ibogaine (4.00 is max). Ibogaine has been shown to inhibit serotonin transporter (SERT) noncompetitively, in contrast to all other known inhibitors, which are competitive with substrate. Ibogaine inhibits both serotonin and dopamine reuptake transporters, it is an SDRI or serotonin & dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Tetrahydroharmine is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it is an SRI found in caapi. In other words, both are strong serotonin reuptake inhibitors which inhibit over 80% of brain 5-ht at 5-ht1a.
In contrast, as an example, Cocaethylene (coca leaf tea bags soaked in wine, the orally active & potent ingredient formed in the liver from cocaine + ethanol in the 1860's "Vin Mariani" wine popular with both Popes, Thomas Edison and scores of other famous people) increases the levels of serotonergic, noradrenergic, and dopaminergic neurotransmission in the brain by inhibiting the action of the serotonin transporter, norepinephrine transporter, and dopamine transporter. These pharmacological properties make cocaethylene a serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor [SNDRI; also known as a "triple reuptake inhibitor"].
Cocaethylene has a higher affinity for the dopamine transporter than does cocaine, but has a lower affinity for the serotonin and norepinephrine transporters. In McCance-Katz et alia's 1993 study cocaethylene "produced greater subjective ratings of 'High' in comparison with administration of cocaine or alcohol alone."
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Part 3: Tetrahydroharmine effects
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The Ayahuasca closed eye visions using 100, 150 to 200mg tetrahydroharmine or THH and HPBCD complexed DMT (30mg on up) together surpass in magnificence anything I have ever seen in reality or in works of art.
With open eyes, all spiritual things such as nature, art, female form, beauty, joy, take on significant meaning with infinite beauty, just like with cactus or LSD. Extraordinary beauty is manifested with open eyes and with the visions one sees with closed eyes. Impossible neon-like colors are seen that don't exist on this Earth.
The existence of a higher spiritual plane is recognized to which insight can and must be gained, yet it does not reject the mundane reality as inferior or empty. This joyous embracement of the world of form leads to words like infinite pleasure, beauty and joy. This loving reappraisal of the worldly forms leads the way to higher divine planes.
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Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
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A little off topic, but I think tetrahydroharmine is a pretty special compound. I've used 250mg of it to potentiate cactus to very strong levels, it makes a 12" medium san pedro cactus tea which may contain around 250mg mescaline feel like an X-large 12" thick san pedro cactus containing around 400mg mescaline. It makes a 12" thick bridgesii cactus feel closer to a tea made with a 12" bridgesii cactus along with an extra 6" piece.
In the data I've seen for THH, it strongly blocks serotonin just like cactus, but also agonizes the adrenal A2A thru A2C receptors (the receptors associated with aesthetics & beauty), just like mescaline has been shown to do receptorome wise, explaining perhaps why they "overlap" so well. THH being able to make mescaline in cactus feel much stronger than it really is. Anyone who has ever taken cactus or high dose THH knows the appreciation for beauty experienced is "over the top".
But you have to stagger the THH from the cactus by taking the tetrahydroharmine around an hour after the cactus is taken, that way any minor maoi's or rima's in the cactus won't interact with the SRI which is THH, which can result in a faster heartbeat for a few hours which has happened to me before...so long as you take it later, it potentiates the cactus quite incredibly...it feels like I've taken 400mg of mescaline containing cactus tea when it's really only 250mg mescaline containing cactus, and they both lasts around 6 hours with super strong activity, so they wind down at around the same time. I have around 7 months experience combining the two, giving myself around 2 weeks apart from journeys.
It works so well, I won't take cactus any other way from now on. I get much more mileage from cactus this way. Visuals and visions are insane, music is so good sounding, you would think you were an alien experiencing sound and music for the very first time, every instrument stands out on it's own, like hearing a track for the very first time. It's a game changer.
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Part 5: chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD prohormones & bloodwork studies
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A litte bit more on sublingual & nasal HPBCD complexed pharmaceuticals:
Several years ago, before "prohormones" were banned, there was a company called "Ergopharm" ran by chemist Patrick Arnold that made HPBCD complexed solutions of prohormones in a nasal spray & in a HPBCD complexed powder that was administered under tongue.
In 2001 Arnold's company introduced the prohormone 4-Androstenediol, under the marketing name 4-AD. 4-AD is a prohormone that is easily converted by the body into testosterone, and it sold well. He is the chemist who created hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed diols such as Cyclo-Diol(TM) and Cyclo-Nordiol(TM).
I bought and used the nasal spray and it was very effective, had my testosterone level checked with a blood test at the local labcore one hour after administering the spray and it was 3,500 ng/dl ! when my normal level was 600ng/dl. Highest measured normal levels in men are around 1200 ng/dl. The blood test cost me $70.00. It had strong mental effects as well. The spray would cause the 4-ad to enter the bloodstream nasally, and convert to testosterone via enzyme activity.
Patrick Arnold also made a sublingual powder of HPBCD complexed 1-AD that could be grabbed from the bottle with a pre-measured scooper, and the powder held under tongue for around 10 minutes or so, sold just as well as the nasal spray, I tried the sublingual product he sold, and that again was effective.
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Part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal
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With Insufflation, sublingual or rectal, DMT is not broken down by monoamine oxidase.
See above paper from Narang et al, Intl J Pharm Sci, Vol 3, Suupl 2, 2011, 18-22:
"With sublingual or "under the tongue", the mucosea thickness is only 100-200, high permeability with rich blood supply, much better than buccal or gingival & palatal, 200, 250, 500 micrometer respectively, shuttling the drug directly to bloodstream." The DMT is not broken down via monamine oxidase whatsoever this way. It avoids the liver and first pass metabolism. The drug is rapidly absorbed via the rich blood supply vessels under the tongue rather than being broken down in the digestive track via the enzyme monamine oxidase. According to paper: "Sublingually administered drugs reach directly in to the blood stream through the ventral surface of the tongue and floor of the mouth. The drug solutes are rapidly absorbed into the reticulated vein which lies underneath the oral mucosa, and transported through the facial veins, internal jugular vein, and braciocephalic vein and then drained in to systemic circulation."
According to paper, "the absorption of drugs through the sublingual route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route and is surpassed by hypodermic injection. Peak blood levels of most products administered sublingually are achieved within 10 to 15 minutes, which is generally much faster than when those same drugs are ingested orally." This has been my experience as well, after 10 minutes of sublingual under tongue application, 5 minutes after the 10 minute sublingual absorption, the DMT rush is felt, followed by 60 to 90 minutes of entheogenic activity. According to paper, "sublingual absorption of drugs is efficient. The percent of each dose absorbed is generally higher than that achieved by means of oral ingestion."
Smoked: If DMT is smoked, the maximal effects last for a short period of time (5 to 30 minutes, dose-dependent). The onset after inhalation is very fast (less than 45 seconds) and maximal effects are reached within about a minute.
Insufflation & Sublingual absorption via Oral Mucosa (under tongue): When DMT is insufflated (snorted through the nostrils) or absorbed sublingually the duration is markedly increased.
Injection: Injected DMT produces an experience similar to inhalation in duration, intensity, and characteristics.
Oral ingestion: DMT, which is broken down by the digestive enzyme monoamine oxidase, is practically inactive if taken orally, unless combined with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI).
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Keep in mind that only a portion or "tail end" of the host molecule is needed to attach or fit into the cyclodextrin cone, and that's all that is needed to be "trapped". I attached a picture of this below. The cyclodextrins have toroidal shapes, with the larger and the smaller openings of the toroid exposing to the solvent secondary and primary hydroxyl groups respectively.
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Part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
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FYI: The THH is an SRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor with significant adrenal activity at A2A thru A2C receptors, similar to mescaline in that regard), it has super weak MAOI activity (see Wikipedia on tetrahydroharmine).
I looked up the data comparing RIMA activity of THH to harmine from a lab supplier who gave the data, and they referenced THH as only having around 1/100th the RIMA strength of harmine, practically non-existent strength as a RIMA. That would mean it would take 20,000mg of THH to equal 200mg of harmine in RIMA strength. Harmine & harmaline however have significant RIMA/MAOI activity.
P.S. I have not actually tried the sublingual DMT by itself, I always prefer it with THH taken orally about 1/2 hour before applying the sublingual HPBCD DMT under my tongue. THH will not activate the DMT at all, but the combo of the two (oral THH + sublingual complexed DMT) is my absolute favorite after trying this several times.
How to best describe THH or tetrahydroharmine:
THH alone (200 to 300mg) with open eyes = everything is brighter and extremely colorful, beauty enhancement is over the top...neon-diamondlike is my best description, like looking down thru several meters of clear blue ocean water on a bright sunny day, just like professor8 describes it. A study done once on the UDV found that brews with high levels of tetrahydroharmine were preferred over all other brews, they found the "dmt was not the main attraction" but actually brews high in THH, fascinating study.
With 250mg to 300mg THH, closed eye dream-like Ayahuasca visions actually form with closed eyes that begin with colored sparkles and geometric dots and ziggly lines in orange, green, and blue that dart around and then progress to the monochrome visions for 1.5 to 2 hours, These visions are WAY beyond 4k, and highly detailed. The DMT seems to add color and brightness to the visions. The DMT also of course adds strong psychedelic alterations & activity to the journey and enhances the quality of music in combo with THH, music sounds incredible as mentioned before for several hours, especially if you keep taking the sublingual DMT around once an hour for the next 3 hours.
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Years ago, I took DMT freebase (70 to 90mg) with harmine and THH pharmahuasca at least a dozen times, and found it mild at best (on a Shulgin scale of 1 to 5, they were all +3 experiences). I even tried to dissolve it into coca cola and citric acid in hot water to make it absorb better as the salt, but it only slightly increased the strength.
The sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT tried the other day was all encompassing and strong at only 30mg, very impressed, I can only imagine where stronger doses will carry this psychonaut.
After that I switched to taking 30 to 35 grams of Hawaiian psychotria boiled down to a couple oz, then added the harmine + thh to the 2oz of hot pychotria tea....well that blew my mind CONSISTENTLY for many years, as I continued to use it over 65 times! Most of the experiences were +4 to +5, very strong indeed, much stronger than the freebase used dmt.
This agrees with what I read from clearlight:
Even Jonathan Ott found that in his 20 experiments posted in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues", that none of his later experiments with extracted actives quite matched the power of his 1st actual Ayahuasca brewed with caapi and good real leaf (experiment #1), he had no explanation for this. He did however find 70mg to be close to it, but still not the same.
However, at this point, I have noticed that ALL the dried Hawaiian psychotria is extinct, and is no longer available. So I am looking forward in dreams to oral HPBCD complexed DMT at around 60mg on up, and hoping this will do the trick, I'm sure it will after having experienced what I really love with the 30mg sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT.
I have read HPBCD complexing these non-water soluble freebase drugs to make them orally 100% water soluble should make it absorb very effectively in the body, so I do believe it will be possible to once again achieve very strong journeys, similar to the ones I used to have using strong water soluble psychotria leaf.
I often found the oral DMT too short as it would wind down after 90 minutes of taking the pharmahuasca, and I am very glad I found this new complexing method so that I can take a "sublingual dose" if I choose at 90 minutes, to extend the journey at least another 90 minutes, to get a full 3 hours of strong activity out of it, that is my goal, and I feel I am one step closer after having experienced the 30mg HPBCD complexed DMT experiment that was successful.
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1) This could also be used to make HPBCD complexed DMT drops which can be added to a hot water tea that already has (around 180 to 220mg) harmine and (150 to 250mg) tetrahydroharmine dissolved in it (using added crushed vitamin C or similar to dissolve) for a SUPER POTENT ORAL pharmahuasca exeperience. Mix it all together and take at the exact same time, just as the Shaman's do. This is how I used to take the Ayahuasca over 65 times I made using same ingredients mixed into 2oz of hot psychotria leaf tea filtered and boiled down to 2oz.
2) Don't forget the importance of tetrahydroharmine or THH, which is 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi made Ayahuasca...you will want to experience real TRUE Ayahuasca, which is a brew high in it (from 150 to 250mg, 250 to 300mg for intense visions):
My last time taking 300mg of THH alone, I saw the interior decorations of palaces, the checkered floors, the beautiful windows and furniture, the winding stair cases, I was blown away, I've seen sacred temples for religious worship, beautiful animals and super fine women, birds of all kinds. I even saw a world war two fighter plane in the same session, it looked like the famous supermarine spitfire in full detail. Caapi tells a story when you drink it with eyes closed, she teaches you things, the most beautiful "realistic visions" that no other entheogen comes close to showing you, these realistic visions go on for long periods.
THH with open eyes: everything is brighter and extremely colorful, beauty enhancement is over the top...neon-diamondlike is my best description, like looking down thru several meters of clear blue ocean water on a bright sunny day.
All of the closed eye visions for me begin with colored sparkles and geometric dots and ziggly lines in orange, green, and blue that dart around and then progress to the monochrome visions for 1.5 to 2 hours. These visions are WAY beyond 4k, and highly detailed. The DMT adds brightness and color to the visions, for example, animals seen will have colored patterning. It also adds strong psychedelic alterations to the journey. Music will sound very alien & incredibly good.
In one past journey, saw three beautiful naked woman dancers twirling in front of stone pillars that rotated slowly. Jungle scenes lit up by the moonlight, full of snakes and palm trees by the beach and lots of people I had known in my life in floating bubbles that were to the left and right of the scene, drifting up into the sky. Elephants from India embellished with vibrantly colored jhools (saddle cloth) and heavy jewellery and sparkling anklets. Detached female faces of breath-taking beauty with freckles. Waterfalls in the middle of the jungle.
With another session, saw barely dressed women wearing futuristic clothing and bikinis of some sort, dazzling in it's design. A spinning vortex made of blue color with closed eyes that opened up in front of me that looked like a wormhole of some sort, I travelled inside of it, and was dropped off on an island in the pacific with wooden Tikis all around the perimeter of a small culture. I saw a chalkboard full of mathematical equations and scientific discoveries drawn out. I flew like a bird for nearly a minute over what looked like Los Angeles, as I could see the homes with swimming pools and parks below me.
I've seen pyramids adorned with gold sheen, architecture of the past and future, Egyptian scenery, vast landscapes, medieval scenery, it goes on and on. Everything is brand new as if newly created. Very similar to the Ayahuasca visions encountered by Benny Shanon in "Antipodes of the Mind".
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Part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.
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6,000 views:
New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.
13,000 views:
Positronic Ayahuasca brewing
12,000 views:
Receptorome study: how traditional Ayahuasca & snuffs differ from dmt
For a visual high dose claviceps paspali (same fresh alkaloid profile as the fresh Mesoamerican Aztec/Mayan morning glory) ergot wine trip report prepared by LSD chemist Todd Skinner, reported in the literature: read Krystle Cole's 3 page report on page 2 post #32 of morning glory link above.
She saw "constantly rotating holographic Sanskrit or Arabic & Zodiac symbols, floating in a circle around Todd's head."
