I F***** it up

[Jox]

Hi all,

I did cold extraction of Mimosa with H3PO4, 3 day soaking Mimosa in 3,75 ph.

this time for no reason I felt I should bring down the ph, and add Ca bi-carbonate ??????

What did I do? Did I destroy the dmt in it?

I read in wiki that the salt tricalcium phosphate is food additive, but what has happened with dmt? any idea?

Jox

 

[Jees]

...I felt I should bring down the ph, and add Ca bi-carbonate...

You tried to bring pH UP by bringing acidity down

No worries, still active, just some grey color, no fekkup !

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

i don't think changing the ph would destroy DMT..

 

[endlessness]

Before you try improvising, it´s better to fully understand what you are doing. You cant just add chemicals at random....

Are you doing an Acid Base or Straight to Base?

Do you have a pH meter ?

If youre doing an AB, make sure pH is acidic (5 or under, for example), then filter liquid and store it, add more acidic water, boil , filter and keep the liquid, repeat 3 times, throw solids away, keep liquids, and proceed. If youre doing an STB, just add your base from where you are, till its jet black, and proceed as normal

 

[Jees]

If I'm not mistaken Jox is not extracting crystals, but making a brew, a tea to drink. Jox, it's best to give those details along so people know what you're up to.

 

[Kash]

Phosphoric acid isnt exactly my idea of food grade if you are doing a brew. It is used in soft drinks in very dilute quantities which has been linked to kidney disease, and it sounds like you used a more concentrated quantity. Probably shouldnt drink it even after balancing PH. Extract it as spice.

 

[Jees]

Cola etc is like pH really below 3, and then you taste the acid. Better to use it to get between 3 and 4 before adding material, and it jumps to 5 at the end of soak or brew. You really can't taste it then anymore. This way he sees no danger, especially since we talk about little cups here, not buckets of cola + popcorn "cinema-style". Probably your warning of negative impact of phos-acid must be linked to quantities?

But instead of starting with a certain acidity point and go with that all the way, one can also work intermittent, making measures in between, and correct tiny:

Lately, my friend brewed vine and acacia and kept adding drops of phos-acid till pH touched 5, boil for some time and pH went to 6.8, adding again to 5, boil some time, again 6.8, back to 5 etc. Like keep pressing it down to 5, the final ended like 6.
At some point, one sees that the pH does not tend to rise anymore as fast as in the beginning, stagnating, this indicates some degree of material exhausting and/or saturation of the wash, indicating time for a new wash batch. Not sure if "saturation" really exist, it just feels that way.

Very hardly reducing volume to one sip, he wasn't even able to physically concentrate the remaining phos-acid to any taste-able amount. Just know what you're dealing about since you can't boil/vaporize phos-acid off like vinegar, treat it carefully, one is really fine.

The taste of an acetic-ized brew is just horrible compared to system described above.

Some people might find this pH jockey game too much of a hassle, but he loves to "feel" and play with the brew as it goes. He really thinks/experiences it pays off. Maybe he changes mind later, but not for now.

 

[endlessness]

If youre just doing a brew to drink, dont use any extra acid, the alkaloids are soluble in water as they are, and it will taste better without acid (or..less bad)

If youre worried about getting more DMT, boil it 3x, not just cold soaking. If youre looking for doing the traditional way and having yuremamine also, dont add acid, just do normal cold soaking.

And yeah, better next time not improvise unless you know what youre doing.

 

[Jees]

Mimo: Comparing long cold soaks containing yuremamine to boiled ones, no real differences in power was noticed, though this is personal and subjective. The boiled ones seems more palatable anyway. If no acid used, boiling becomes paramount, he thinks.

For acacia, 2 different friends have noticed real weak brews (long boils, multiple washes) when not using acid, a real difference with vine, reason unknown, coincidence or fact???

 

[Jox]

Hi all,

thank you for your responses.

I have to see how strong and good the Ca DMT, and then I will post all the chemical reactions that took place in this mistake.

In all teks all the NaOH are actually Na slats, so this will be Ca salt, am I right?


Jox

 

[endlessness]

No, when you add enough base, you dont form DMT salt, you have freebase DMT. There s no such thing as sodium salt or calcium salt of DMT.

You said in the first step you had the solution in ph 3.75, so I assume you have a pH meter. What pH is your solution now?

 

[Jox]

Hi endlessness,

I am using tap water and ph is 5,8.

The dmt ph is 6, it is not 7 for sure...

what does it mean?

thanx
Jox

 

[endlessness]

Freebase percentage AND pH calculator - Advanced/Enhanced chemistry - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

According to that neat freebase/salt calculator, at pH 6 we see that only 0.2% of DMT is in freebase form, or in other words, 99.8% of the DMT should be in salt form and therefore dissolved in solution. So you can filter out whatever is precipitated, and drink the solution if you were planning on ingesting it orally. Or you add more base till pH is at least 11 and then add solvent to do a full extraction.

 

[Jees]

Endlessness, I've been wondering about this before, to use the calculator on a mimo tea:

When you drop in the Ca(bi)carbonate, even in clear liquid solution form, the otherwise very transparent purple mimo tea turns murky grey, and the 0.2% (in Jox's example here) would suggest this grey is the precipated freebase? BUT, if it's all that simple, we would not need to use NP solvents anymore right? Just a coffee filter would catch the freebase. Or does "freebase" not necessarily means "precipated"? Is it possible to have the freebased 0.2% still not precipating to solid? Then again, what is that grey forming all about? Is it freebase-in-liquid-form? So not catch-able with a coffee filter?

Googling: 2H3PO4 + 3CaCO3 --> 3H2O + Ca3(PO4)2 + 3CO2
Maybe the murky color is this product Ca3(PO4)2 and not related to the freebased dmt at all?
Or would the freebased dmt still be precipated but buried in the Ca3(PO4)2?

Puzzled here. :?

(Tea of chacruna, chaliponga, acacia, all have a color shift)

 

[endlessness]

I think more likely they are other inactive calcium salts like calcium tannate or calcium phosphate (just guessing) or whatever.

It could possibly be a way to clean the tea, precipitate some inactive stuff by raising pH to somewhere between 5 and 6, filtering to remove inactives.

But not sure how useful or practical that would be.

Calcium bases might be good for such purposes, but if all you want is to raise the pH of an aqueous solution, other bases are better because calcium bases arent very soluble in water.

 

[Jees]

...It could possibly be a way to clean the tea, precipitate some inactive stuff by raising pH to somewhere between 5 and 6, filtering to remove inactives. But not sure how useful or practical that would be....

^ This I find intriguing.

 

[Jox]

This is becoming very complicated.

BUT I tried this reaction alone:

2H3PO4 + Ca(HCO3)2--> 3H2O + Ca3(PO4)2 + 3CO2

(I am not balancing the equation, just posting a quick response.)

without any other agent, and NO SEDIMENTATION of any kind, so Ca3(PO4)2 or calcium phosphate is all in water, and I got the ph to be actually 7.


Jox

 

[endlessness]

You are really over complicating yourself.

The brew made from a plant such as mimosa is way more complex than a pure solution of diluted phosphoric acid and neutralization with calcium bicarb. You`re not going to be able to do the formulas because you dont know beforehand what is in the complex mix substances present in each plant in different ratios.

As mentioned before, at this moment pH versus pKa of substance (or the automatized calculation excel I linked earlier) is what tells you how to proceed. If its slightly acidic as you said, DMT will be in the solution, so proceed to ingesting or purifying in any of the possible ways depending on what you want. Otherwise base it further and extract.